Гражданин, ваши бумаги, пожалуйста.

WildAlaska said:
Where in the law is that permitted?
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Since Reasonable Suspicion is such a low standard that a cop can create it on a whim, and it will hold up in court.

Terry stops don't target suspected criminals so much as they target the ~1% who don't fall within about 2.5-sigma of the societal norm. There are of course a disproportionate number of criminals in that 1%. There are also other people who don't deserve to be harassed.
 
Since Reasonable Suspicion is such a low standard that a cop can create it on a whim, and it will hold up in court.
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Really? How many Terry cases have you read?

Hers one from Alaska:
http://touchngo.com/ap/html/ap-1289.htm

Terry stops don't target suspected criminals so much as they target the ~1% who don't fall within about 2.5-sigma of the societal norm. There are of course a disproportionate number of criminals in that 1%. There are also other people who don't deserve to be harassed.
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Where do you get those stats from

By the way, in case anyone cares, I think the Ohio law in question is probably constituional albiet stupid and very poorly drafted

WildicoulddobetterAlaska
 
I have seen Terry stops abused by police officers. Officers who were so crazy, they thought they could bend the rules and actually make a dent in the criminal activity that the community is constantly bashing the police for doing nothing about. Not making excuses, just pointing out the reality of the situation.
 
So have I...and usually they get a free ride on one or two...then after that the cop starts losing.

The justice system isnt as stupid as folks think. Bend the rules once, get caught...well stuff happens...twice...hes over eager....more than that....falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus...when everything you do is tossed and DAs start gettin pissed ya get yer hand slapped or worse.

Rule breakers dont last....police are a bueracracy, nothing POs bueractrats more than having their routine screwed up by the weed that wont grow straight

A PD out of law school can beat a crappy stop


WildlifeAlaska
 
As you can tell by my signature, I am willing to take some responsibility for my own safety in order to come and go as I please without being subject to questioning because some thinks I may do something wrong. Please don't misunderstand me I am not anti-LE some of my best friends are cops, most of them are honest hard working guys who don't get paid enough to do a thankless job, the same reason I got out of EMS. I saying that the police will never be able to protect everyone all of the time no matter how much discretion is given for search and seizure.
 
Really? How many Terry cases have you read?
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I'm not particularly concerned with finding cases that support my assertion. I am concerned with the fact that I've been repeatedly terry-stopped on account of my habit of jogging late at night. This nonsense would never happen in San Francisco, because everyone walks around late at night there. (Unfortunately, SFO is a hellhole for other reasons.)

Most innocent people who get terry-stopped never get arrested or charged, so you can read all the law you want and you'll never get a good picture of what goes on.

As for the 1%, that's a gross estimate, but I think it's on the right order of magnitude.
 
Sorry about your troubles but apocrypahl evidence doenst demonstrate wilespread abuse.

Now turn it the other way....would you rather the po-lice not check out late night joggers?

WildgettindrunkhereAwaska
 
Now turn it the other way....would you rather the po-lice not check out late night joggers?
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Yup. Unless nighttime jogging is directly linked to some sort of criminal behavior that would not be as easily linked to driving a car, owning a firearm, posting on an internet board or boarding an aircraft.


Joggers today; why not subway riders tomorrow.....oops, we already shake them down, too, don't we?
Rich
 
Yup. Unless nighttime jogging is directly linked to some sort of criminal behavior that would not be as easily linked to driving a car, owning a firearm, posting on an internet board or boarding an aircraft.
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The converse then rich: under all circumstances nightime joggers should not be stopped?

WioldwaaaytoomuchrumandpizzaAlaslkla
 
You're right. Far too much rum.
Check with us in the AM...we'll talk. Don't be driving, now; make certain you're not carrying a weapon while drinking; be sure not to give a sip of that Rum Punch to a minor; if there's office girls there, be very careful the types of humor you engage in; no peeing in the parking lot (sex crime, you know); when you go home tonight, be sure your Xmas tree was installed by a certified Electrical tech-nish-ione; oh, and tell your boss it may be against the law to write off the cost of the party on his taxes.

Wouldn't want to see you get in trouble with the law or anything. Stay free. ;)
Rich
 
WA has been giving way too many deals today. turns out an eggnog with a half shot of crown makes him give like 30% discounts across the board.
i'll carry the fat tons o fun home, but i cant promise he wont relieve himself in the parking lot.

he's gyrating with his hi-power at the office mailroom chick right now. good thing shes got an Akita attack dog with her to keep him in line.
 
Sorry Bunny but the idea of telling your history and

standing on certain topics, is part of the process.
Look how much they fuss about it when it comes to an election. I am not running for office.
But I do believe those that have been in the trenchs have a better idea about what is happening then those watching channel 7 news. The media is just one distortion after another.

We are a nation of warriors and have proved it in numerous wars or would be wars and we are a nation of violent persons. Just check it out when you want to. Compare 1st, 2nd, and 3rd world powers.

I am glad to see you have put some time in and have a dd214.

Happy holiday,
Harley
 
Papers Please???

My mom once told me the same thing Harley is saying. Americans love to fight, and once pissed off very formidable foes.

I live in the sticks, I've run across my fair share of people i would never turn my back on - ever. So those who live in large urban areas with large #'s of criminals, the police are busy working calls on service.

It's a sad note that one can't roam about wherever one pleases without the fear of being accosted by persons wanting to take advantage by force or other means.

12-34hom.
 
12:30am-2am

It tends to happen when I cross from sidestreet to sidestreet. I've never had a problem when running along major roads. It might not even be the fact that I'm out at that hour, but that I'm running. Maybe they think I'm running from some axe-weilding homeowner I just tried to rob. I really have no idea. I don't think burglars and robbers tend to run around at that hour, sticking to public roads. It's my impression that they tend to lurk, mainly in vehicles.

I fully realize that it's unusual. I simply don't think I should be subjected to a fishing expedition. The roads are pretty much empty at those hours, but I've never been stopped driving at those hours. Why should it be any different for pedestrians?
 
I fully realize that it's unusual. I simply don't think I should be subjected to a fishing expedition. The roads are pretty much empty at those hours, but I've never been stopped driving at those hours. Why should it be any different for pedestrians?
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Have you ever contacted the department?

If you are running in pretty much the same area every night I have to believe there are only so many different people that will be working that shift and that location, eventually you should run into the same people.
 
somewhat relevant

http://www.papersplease.org/davis/

Though I dont believe there was an existing "Ohio Patriot act" type of law in effect.

I just wonder about the effect of requiring identification to allow transportation and the effect on commerce? I do honestly believe that there will be little if any practical effect, however there is a theoretical effect on both inter and intrastate commerce with a law that requires identification for travel.

Is there a potential conflict with interstate commerce by the "Ohio Patriot act"? I could see that as a potential issue in the courts.

Oh yeah and Merry Christmas to everybody!
 
Sorry, but I agree with this law. It is important for many reasons that an officer be able to ID the person he his talking to. For officer safety more for than anti-terrorism IMO. In fact, this is already the law in many places, including both jurisdictions that I have worked in.
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Where in the law is that permitted?

WildamimissingsomethingAlaska
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Blackwater & WA, perhaps you 2 should read:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?navby=case&court=us&vol=443&invol=47#51

Sort of says that the cops CAN'T stop and ask for ID just because someone is in a public place. This case comes AFTER Terry v. Ohio so "Terry stops" aren't ID stops.

The Ohio patriot act violates SCOTUS limits on exactly this sort of thing. And Blackwater, if every LEO agency you've worked for is doing this, then THEY (and you) are the ones committing the illegalities and not the people on the street.

And exactly WHAT is it about my Id that creates an officer safety issue?
 
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