Гражданин, ваши бумаги, пожалуйста.

Don't bait, WA....I'll put you on a forced 4K Cal diet.
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4K? Thats breakfast for Spiff:D

Me...I get Nori and rice and all that other good stuff and I still look like a beach ball:eek:

There's a place to argue, "It's the law". However, when it becomes a mantra, one needs to ask what you're even doing on a civil liberties board. Your path is already stable....the Legislature and Courts create it and you follow.
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Actually if the Courts UPHOLD I am bound...until such time as the legislature overturns:D ..and my goal is the legislature...the alterntaive is too frightful to consider. Now if a court creates....you see one annoyed fat boy even if if feel the creation is within the realm of the permissable.....

My mantra is more civil libertarian than anyones...that is..."the more things change, the more things remain the same"

I prefer the camel that is trained, rather than the wild one. Takes too many lifetimes to tame the wild one

WildillbuyyaoneifiseeyaattheshotshowitalkfasterthanitypeAlaska
 
Sorry, but I agree with this law. It is important for many reasons that an officer be able to ID the person he his talking to. For officer safety more for than anti-terrorism IMO. In fact, this is already the law in many places, including both jurisdictions that I have worked in.
 
And WHY exactly is Joe Cop talking to Joe Citizen? I'll chat with cops, sure, but if they suddenly demand my ID, I'm gonna want a reason, and if he doesn't have a good one, tough. He doesn't need to know who I am or where I live, BECAUSE I HAVEN'T COMMITTED A FREAKIN' CRIME.

You ever heard of driftnetting? As in fishing? Big net is cast into the water and just trolls along, hoping to catch something of value. That's what this is about, and none of you who back this fascist (not exaggerating, that's exactly what it is) tripe seem to care about the 99.999% of the "useless" fish that get caught, killed, and dumped back into the water. How about you go back to catching real criminals, and leave the rest of us alone, eh?
 
Gee, WA, maybe because I'm not running from him like a scairt little bunny?

Point is, we still have some shreds of this legal philosophy that assumes a man is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. That's been perverted lately into "guilty because he looks guilty" and "guilty due to having been accused." Furthermore, this law that you're so happily backing automatically assumes that everyone in the entire frelling country - INCLUDING YOU - is a terrorist until proven otherwise.

YAY PARANOIA! :rolleyes: :barf: :mad:
 
So, it seems to me that what they are saying is that if a LEO suspects you of having commited a crime, or of even contemplating such, or being a witness of such, that you are OBLIGATED to give your name, address and DOB, failure to disclose this is a misdemeanor. Since anybody, anywhere, at any time, can be said to be "about to commit a crime", this amounts to instant (albeit limited) interrogation rights by whatever LEO wants to demand it of a otherwise law abiding citizen. And the citizen can't even tell the LEO to buzz off and MYOB (not that I would refuse, but I demand the right to do it if I want) without getting fined (unlikely) or thrown in jail (likely).
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This is, plain and simple, the criminalization of your exercise of the right to remain silent.

blackwaterOPS said:
Sorry, but I agree with this law. It is important for many reasons that an officer be able to ID the person he his talking to. For officer safety more for than anti-terrorism IMO. In fact, this is already the law in many places, including both jurisdictions that I have worked in.
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Um, if a guy is going for a gun, or a bomb, or a knife, or a gas can, in a public place such that the officer believes he is about to commit a crime (terrorist act), what friggin' difference does it make if he gets the guy's name, address, date of birth?!... And what would stop the guy from giving FALSE info, anyway?

This policy would make as much sense as those idiotic "you-can-walk-away-if-you-don't-wanna-be-searched,-Mr.-Suicide-Bomber" searches they're doing in NYC (and elsewhere). Useless. Friggin' useless. :barf: :mad:


-azurefly
 
And what would stop the guy from giving FALSE info, anyway?
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Because the guardian, oops, I mean policeman, is going to ask dispatch to check the id. This while the "suspect" stands politely next to the officer and waits for dispatch to tell the officer that he's standing next to a wanted axe murderer.
 
Conversely, I do NOT support the the Act, which is a plain violation of the constitution. Local cops should have the right to stop individuals and ID them at their discretion. Could this be abused? Yes. But if the cops is going to be abusive he is going to do it law or no law, and its something that should be stopped in anycase.
 
Wild50yearsandneverbeenaskedforidbythewayexceptduringdrafficstopsandreportsAlaska
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Yet...
You forgot to say "yet".

Had someone told me in 1965 that lighting a cigarette on an airplane would be a federal crime some day, I would have laughed in their face.

Had someone told me in 1975 that public schools in the suburbs would have metal detectors and armed police, I would have laughed in their face.

Had someone told me in 1985 that pleading guilty to a misdemeanor domestic violence charge (rather than face the cost of a trial) would result in a lifelong ban from owing firearms one day, I would have laughed in their face.

Had someone told me in 1995 that nail clippers would be banned from airplanes someday, I would have laughed in their face.

It's 2005 - I don't laugh at things that much anymore.
 
How does he know?

Wild50yearsandneverbeenaskedforidbythewayexceptduringdrafficstopsandreportsAlaska
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WA
True how does he know that Joe Schmoe walking down the street, with a wild look on his face, sweating, and in a hurry did not commit a crime, or how about the lady behind him, or the other guy on the other side of the street, or how about the security guard at the front of the building, etc.... As in most things it will come down to definitions, define reasonable.

As far as the comment about not being asked for ID in 50 years excluding traffic stops and the like, was there an existing law or precedent similar to the one on the Ohio Gov's desk in place at any point during your 50 years?



Local cops should have the right to stop individuals and ID them at their discretion. Could this be abused? Yes. But if the cops is going to be abusive he is going to do it law or no law, and its something that should be stopped in any case.
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Things that seem like abuse now slowly tend to become accepted. Really at this point where I live the police are far to busy to bug Joe or Jane Doe walking down the street any way. I guess it realy does not matter much, Taft will sign it regardless of what I write to him. I guess I would be better off just resigning to the fact that these laws in the name of "safety and security" will continue... Just going to be very carefull of what I look like when walking down the street...
 
A quickie before the morning abulations, then off to the shop for the Xmas Eve party! You are all invited of course, 7100 Homer drive, Anchorage, Alaska. Spiff will be there in his reindeer costume, lots of food and booze!

That's been perverted lately into "guilty because he looks guilty" and "guilty due to having been accused." Furthermore, this law that you're so happily backing automatically assumes that everyone in the entire frelling country - INCLUDING YOU - is a terrorist until proven otherwise.
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Wrong...read Terry then get back to me. That controls even under this law.

This is, plain and simple, the criminalization of your exercise of the right to remain silent.
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Wrong. Your Fifth Amendment Rights rae not treiggered by the provision of identifying information. Even the terms of the 5th make that clear without interpretation.

Had someone told me in 1965 that lighting a cigarette on an airplane would be a federal crime some day, I would have laughed in their face.
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Totally different scenarios that have no bearing on any of my arguments.

As in most things it will come down to definitions, define reasonable.
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Terry. Read a police manual about Terry and its progeny.

As far as the comment about not being asked for ID in 50 years excluding traffic stops and the like, was there an existing law or precedent similar to the one on the Ohio Gov's desk in place at any point during your 50 years?
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No but there is fopr many years section 195.05 (i think) of the NY penal Code, Obstruction of Governmental Administration that covers ID situations


Some of you fellas are blind to the realities of law enforcement. Fact is, the cops are way too busy to harass folks just walkin down the street. Here in Anchorage, 100 cops get 300 calls an hour. They have LOADS of time for proactive policing:rolleyes: . Any LE wanna chime in?

WildmerryxmastoallAlaska
 
Most of the time Police Officers are very busy just

Answering the calls that are waiting on them when they check in.
Goes something like this, 16 A 52 roger (recognizing you check in) we have six calls for you. Handle in this order #1 #2 #3 #4 #5 #6. 16 A 52 roger.
Now this can be vocal or on your computer.

One hour later you are going to handle call #4 and you get a call 16 A 52 see the man shots fired child down in the street, Sycamore and Vine handle code 3 (lites and siren) be aware possably gang related. 16 A 52 roger. 16 A 52 this is 16 L 50 (sgt) I am on my way also. 16 A 52 roger.

And on and on and on. This will happen this evening some where some time in a major city in the USoA, One of the most violent countries in the world.

Harley

Happy Holidays.
 
(C) Nothing in this section requires a person to answer any questions beyond that person's name, address, or date of birth. Nothing in this section authorizes a law enforcement officer to arrest a person for not providing any information beyond that person's name, address, or date of birth or for refusing to describe the offense observed.

^^^doesn't this state that they can't arrest you??? or am i reading it wrong?
 
Harley,

a major city in the USoA, One of the most violent countries in the world.
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:confused:

I guess that being busted into in the middle of the night and shot, being gassed on the orders of the "president", having high explosives put into your shirt pocket and then set off, having a band of roving "government agents" go through a village and kill off most of the population, digging mass graves, is considered safe?

And I guess that if only the cops and the military had all the arms and the People disarmed we all would be out in the streets singing Kum-by-ya and hugging/kissing each other in total peace and harmony?

If we're the most violent country in the world, why not move to another? You'd be safer right? Move to China, or North Korea, or even England. No crime happens, no guns are allowed in the hands of the People, just the cops and the military (and the cops sometimes don't even have that choice).

I would rather live in this Country, even with all it's problems and risks then any other in this world. Absolute freedom comes with a price, and that price is that everyone has absolute freedom.

We all know that LEO's can't be everywhere all at once to help protect or solve all our ills. We know that you are there to try to protect and serve but you and others are just one unit and can do so much.

But why try to force us, the People, to depend upon what you and other LEO's cannot do? Allow us some responsibility for ourselves, to have the means to protect ourselves, and to live in peace from the fear of the law when we do have to employ the greatest means of protection for ourselves.

Also you have to take into account (which many won't) that the US of A is a huge country with a huge population. We are bigger than most when it comes to land mass as well as population. You cannot compare our crime rate with those of other countries that have less land mass and less population. That is like comparing the fact that we are the entire apple so we may have multiple worms while another country is just a fourth and can only substain one worm.

I'm getting tired of hearing that America is so bad, the worst place to live upon this Earth, that we'd become a utopia if only we didn't have guns, if we didn't try to protect ourselves (as a nation and as a People), and if we'd only become one with the world and live the way they wish/demand of us.

The whole American experiment was a success. We are the youngest of the world governments but we have obtained super power status in the shortest amount of time. That experiment is now being dismantled because we are ashamed or guilty of our statis in this world. As we've grown stronger, other nations have grown weaker, and we are now ashamed of this fact. Instead of teaching others about our great experiment, many want to lower ourselves to the level of the rest of the world. And that my friend is what is going to destroy us.

We are not the most violent country in this world, we are just the most free. Yet the freedoms that we hold dear are being given to those that would/have abused it and taken from us that want it. As our freedoms are being removed, bit by bit, the criminals, the illegals, and those that will find a way to abuse it are given these freedoms to do as they please, while blaming us for the mess that has been created.

It's time that the Republic, as which it stood, make a comeback before it's too late and when mob rule becomes the norm, then you will see the most violent country in the world.

Wayne
 
Just the fact's bunny.

Just the facts.
I don't like it either. But alas it is the truth. How much of your life have you given to protect this country?

I was in the Corps for 4 years and am retired LEO. What have you done for our country?

Harley
 
I don't care if they want my ID if I am boarding some mode of mass transportation, I don't even care if they use video surveillence and face recognition software in the mall but if I am standing on the street corner minding my own buisness and someone wants my ID I do have a big problem with that. What comes next? I need to enter your home and make sure you don't have contraband or you don't have www.fortliberty.org bookmarked on your pc?
 
Harley,

Thank you for your service.

But my friend, you are barking up the wrong tree with that statement.

How much of my life have I give up for my country... appartely you don't read many of the posts on the board, as I've already proven my commentment for this country, have a DD Form 214 to prove the 11 years that I've given.

Not a good arguement and not good form to question others about what they have sarcifaced to save or serve our Republic.

Even those that haven't been blessed with wearing the uniform, for whatever reason, they still have put their lives on the line to ensure the continuation of our great (or used to be) Republic. There sacrifaces cannot be put aside as mere acts as ours cannot be put aside for the same reason.

And I still can't see where you are stating that America is the most violent country in the world. Either you haven't opened your eyes or you refuse to see what is happening in this world. As the animals and as the insects that also live upon this earth, each knows that life is a gift which can be taken at any time by those that wish to do so. That will always be a factor of life, the ultimate fate will always be death. There is no way around this fact.

But just like the animal and insect world, certain tools, whether from the body or made, helps to ensure that life can be lived longer.

You wouldn't remove the poison sack from a snake and think that it would live in the wild, you wouldn't remove the claws from your cat and think that it will be okay in a cage full of dogs, and you wouldn't take away a gun from your grandmother and expect that she'd be safe in a bad neighborhood.

The world was born out of violence, with either belief on how it started, and violence will continue until the day of the Second Coming, or the sun explodes, whatever your belief. Man will never become passive to the point that another man will not try to control another. It is not man's way, man's way is that of violence, and of death to those they think they can control.

And the United States of America embraces the fact that all men are free, and that if they abuse their freedoms, then they must take the punishment for their actions (or well, used to be that way). Did that create the violence that we have today.... no, it didn't. What created the violence we have today is the fact that those who would abuse the freedoms given are allowed to do so and those who just wish their freedoms can't use them because they are being taken away.

America isn't a violent nation, it's just been dumbed down to the point where others can take advantage of those that believe in the falsehoods that are fed to them daily. As I sit in my house, at my computer, right at this moment, and having many oppurtunities surrounding me to help ensure my safety, I feel safe and comfortable. As I leave this house, and with that which gives me equal oppurtunity to fend off an attack due to my disabilities, I feel safe and comfortable.

Yet if I were in your so called "safe countries" which do not allow such a thing, I would not feel safe, or comfortable, not only due to the reports of crime rates, the ease of the criminal to get what they wish, or the fact that they sometimes wish more than what you have, up to and including your life, I chose to stay where I am, in this country, where at least I have a say and a chance.

Wayne

*edited to state: Spelling mistakes, grammar, etc.. stays as written, this post was made from the heart and not off the knee.
 
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