granny gets tasered. when will people learn?

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you guys can pontificate all you want to. but the bottom, line is that she refused to cooperate. brought the whole thing on herself.

i hope her lawsuit tanks. but it probably won't in todays society.
 
So many good LEO's rightfully question why a growing number of Americans always seem to side with the accuser in these cases. I would suggest that the reason is public statements from present and former LEO that read something like this:
but the bottom, line is that she refused to cooperate. brought the whole thing on herself.
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By the way...according to the Lt., she was Tased for "failure to stand up" and three more times times for failure to "roll over". Anyone recall my DOG analogy?
Bowling then advised Kidwell to stand up so she could be handcuffed. Kidwell said that was “impossible” and refused to stand as directed.

Bowling repeatedly asked her to stand up, but Kidwell continued to refuse. Bowling pulled out his Taser and said that if she did not comply, he would use it on her. After she continued to refuse and said she was leaving, Bowling fired his X-26 Taser with both probes hitting Kidwell’s right chest area, according to the report.

She fell to the floor but refused to comply with Bowling’s command to place her hands behind her back. Bowling activated the Taser three more times at 5-second intervals until she put her hands behind her back and was handcuffed.
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http://www.middletownjournal.com/hp/content/news/stories/2005/12/08/mj1208tasers.html

- Was the Taser use within Policy. Probably.
- Did Lt. Bowling have other options? Unknown, pending additional facts.
- Is the entire scene, and the reactions of some LEO's here disturbing? You betcha.
Rich
 
Anyone recall my DOG analogy
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your dog analogy doesn't fit because because he doesn't speak english or always understand the situation he is in.

the woman fully knew what was expected of her. how could she not understand "stand up"?

if she had cooperated with a reasonable request she wouldn't have had to worry about rolling over. (her words, right?)

we also don't know how she had acted prior to the video we saw.

regardless, i am with this cop 100 percent. maybe he will sue her for forcing him to experience the trauma of tasering someone. :D

i'll bet you when the smoke clears we find out she has priors.
 
A taser is supposed to be a preferable option to the handgun; used only in situations where somebody is a threat.
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You really ought to have a clue before you post. This was never the intention for the Taser. The Taser is, and always has been, an alternative for such things as OC Spray and Batons. These tools rely on pain, while the Taser relies on Muscle Incapacitation. True, the taser hurts, but it is completely temporary. Trust me, Ive been there. If I had my choice, Id take the Taser every time over any other less lethal option.

The Taser IS NOT an alternative for a deadly force situation. Thinking this way gets officers killed. Period.
 
Was the Taser use within Policy. Probably.
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I don't care if it was used within "policy." Police bureaucrats and Rule writers are no guide to morality.

I hope she becomes a multi-millionnaire on this and the cop retires as a night security guard. Unarmed, of course.

Rick
 
I am curious to know if the cop is getting crap from his fellow officers for not being able to subdue a 68 year old woman without using a taser.
 
I could point out that the article says she's in the hospital, but that's neither here nor there.
The real issue is tasers being used as torture devices to inflict pain as punishment for noncompliance as opposed to incapacitating devices for neutralizing a threat.
This officer was in the wrong for following this mindset. It is his job to get the cuffs on her with the least damage to himself the old lady and any bystanders, *not* to punish her for noncompliance.
 
Jeff-
Buzzz. Wrong again. The pup absolutely knows the command "Mount Up". Sometimes he chooses to procrastinate in complying with my lawful order. That said, if I could demonstrate to you that he absolutely knows the command, would you condone my torturing him, to the tune of 20 seconds of voltage, under the circumstances previously described. Of course not....whether cop or private citizen, you'd demand a pretty darned good explanation.

TBO-
No one has claimed injury but her.
Not the point, though. There is no physical injury from sexual harrassment during an arrest, racial harassmaent during an arrest, false charges added on to real ones, false imprisonment as the result of partially false charges or a myriad of other situations where the Enforcer should be held accountable.

This Grandmother feels she was treated with Extreme Violence when such was not warranted (and I couldn't care less if she had "priors"). She has every right to a public, legal airing of that matter. What facts come out of that, I'm not willing to guess. But those who claim she was treated in a fair and humane manner based on the facts thus far before us will, demonstrate a rather frightening proclivity toward human torture.
Rich

28 Year Old Rob Pincus demonstrates a 3 second Taser hit.
 
What would you folks be saying if he had used a Goose Neck, transitioned to an arm-bar, and directed the resisting suspect to the floor and then hand-cuffed her?
 
Dunno-
What would you say if he took 90 seconds more to explain to her that she was facing very serious charges for Resisting Arrest and was only making matters a lot worse? Perhaps he did, we dunno; but his statement doesn't claim he did. His statement claims that he repeatedly told her to "Stand up" and "Roll over".

What would you say if he employed an extra 4 Man Minutes of valuable Police time by calling in a second officer to help cuff her without the goose neck, arm bar, or body slam?

What would you say if he first attempted a simple wrist-lock restraint? Who knows...it might have even worked. Then he wouldn't be in this mess-of-his-own-choosing in the first place.
Rich
 
Ooooh lordy lord.

That video... well, it really doesn't contain a whole lot of data. I'm ignoring the fact that it looks like the LEO in the frame "casually" shoots the woman, because there simply aren't enough frames recorded to tell - his posture could simply be a transitory stage that happens to look like he's being off-hand. Speaking as an animator, and a video specialist there is just Not Enough Information conveyed by that clip to really show any specifics of what happenned.

My interest in this thread isn't really about this particular incident anymore, it's turned into a case of conflicting attitudes:

"...but the bottom, line is that she refused to cooperate. brought the whole thing on herself."

*thinks*

Now, there are times when "brought the whole thing on yourself" does hold true. If I've got a new client meeting in the morning, and neck ten pints of good strong beer the previous evening, then I've brought the probable failure of the meeting on myself.

If I've got a job on, and I'm working from home and fail to exercise discipline with myself, and play a bunch of games, catch up on some reading and as a consequence don't get paid, that I've brought on myself.

But I cannot accept "Not blindly following the orders of a stranger" as "bringing it on myself". Regardless of the office he or she holds, regardless of warrants he or she carries, a stranger is a stranger.

There's been a brilliant point made by CraZboy about the distinction between compliance and respect.

Regardless of the particulars of this case, I cannot condone a mindset that shakes it's head and makes tutting noises over, seemingly, anyone who doesn't automatically comply with Authority for Authority's sake.
 
Dunno-
What would you say if he took 90 seconds more to explain to her that she was facing very serious charges for Resisting Arrest and was only making matters a lot worse? Perhaps he did, we dunno; but his statement doesn't claim he did. His statement claims that he repeatedly told her to "Stand up" and "Roll over".

What would you say if he employed an extra 4 Man Minutes of valuable Police time by calling in a second officer to help cuff her without the goose neck, arm bar, or body slam?

What would you say if he first attempted a simple wrist-lock restraint? Who knows...it might have even worked. Then he wouldn't be in this mess-of-his-own-choosing in the first place.
Rich
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In otherwords there's been nothing but speculation in this thread.
There's a major lack of facts in evidence (short newspaper quip, no Police Report).

FWIW, if anyone was really interested in what happened and lived reasonably close, they could go request a copy of the Police report on the origional incident. She's been charged, she pled guilty, the case is closed.
Being so, it's not available upon request.

Any takers?
 
i'll bet you when the smoke clears we find out she has priors.
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And if she does, it has nothing to do with this incident at all. Even prior criminals have rights. LEO's are supposed to protect the rights of all, including the suspect they are arresting.


"...but the bottom, line is that she refused to cooperate. brought the whole thing on herself."
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jeff_troop, you need to turn in your badge, if you are a cop. Society does not need your attitude. Ever wonder why some in society have a dim view on LEO's? Just take a look at your own statements, there is your answer.

There's a major lack of facts in evidence
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I guess we need to disregard that video?

If you can defend the actions of this officer, after seeing that video, you are part of the problem.
 
"She brought it on herself" How is this any different than my reasoning that police officers bring on the hate of the people with incidents like this and others? Oh, yeah double standard, you have a badge to hide behind.

The We/They attitude I see from cops here is as bigoted as pre-1862 Georgia. Police are the masters, and the people are the slaves. Do what I tell you and you don't get whipped. I say that just like the pre-Civil war South the double standard is there, but without the slaves, the masters would have it pretty rough.

She didn't bring on 5 jolts. After the first she would be incapacitated long enough that he should have been able to cuff her with ease. After seeing what a 3 second jolt did to a healthy 28 year old man, it is a wonder she was not seriously injured from spasming around on the ground.

I hope for three things:That cop gets canned, the granny gets his house, and I NEVER have to drive through the jurisdiction of some of the cops on this board.
 
Quote:
Bowling then advised Kidwell to stand up so she could be handcuffed. Kidwell said that was “impossible” and refused to stand as directed.

Bowling repeatedly asked her to stand up, but Kidwell continued to refuse. Bowling pulled out his Taser and said that if she did not comply, he would use it on her. After she continued to refuse and said she was leaving, Bowling fired his X-26 Taser with both probes hitting Kidwell’s right chest area, according to the report.

She fell to the floor but refused to comply with Bowling’s command to place her hands behind her back. Bowling activated the Taser three more times at 5-second intervals until she put her hands behind her back and was handcuffed.
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I be curious to know why it was impossible for her to stand up. That is important and needs to be ascertained.

Here is how I read the situation as we have fleshed it out so far. Correct anything where I am wrong.

1. Woman is told to stand up to be handcuffed, 3 times. (Safe to assume an arrest?)
2. Woman refuses to stand up, stating it was impossible.
3. Officer tells woman that if she does not stand up (to be handcuffed) she will be tazed.
4. Woman refuses and is tazed while sitting on the bench.
5. Woman falls to floor after being tazed.
6. Officer tells woman to place hands behind back to be handcuffed.
7. Woman refuses.
8. Officer tazes woman several more times (3 more times?)

Did I leave anything out or change anything in the facts?

I'll speak to other options the officer had in affecting the arrest after we establish any and all facts.
 
Wildcard,

The station camera looks like a framelapse recording, where one frame is taken every second, to spin out the maximum recording time on the tape.

All the dashboard camera footage I've ever seen has been full resolution and frame-rate (30 two-field frames per second), which burns tape much, much faster but gives a more complete visual record. I guess the reasoning is that the dash cam is more likely to capture high-speed events such as collisions, rather than low-speed events like, erm... well. That's where the rationale falls over, I guess.

<edit>

That's in my experience. Your mileage may vary.
 
that's right guys resort to personal remarks. the assumptions some of you have made are unbelievable!

i just won't talk to people that make assumptions. not worth my time and far to tedious.

rich you don't have the attitude to be a moderator. you are unable to contain your snide jabs etc.

i bet you the woman will comply with a reasonable request in the future.

i'm off to practice my tasering.
 
i bet you the woman will comply with a reasonable request in the future.
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This is the thing that - personalities aside - confuses me. There seem to be people on this board who seem to think that it's desirable for non-police to fear and obey the police.

That's... icky.
 
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