granny gets tasered. when will people learn?

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I find the only ignorance here is the cop-elitist attitude. The reason that young America hates cops isn't young America's fault, it is cops and their attitude. I am sure you think I am wrong, but answer me this:Why, in one of the top-selling video game series of all times do you get points for killing cops? If kids weren't sick of cops, the stuff wouldn't sell. Those kids are growing in to tax-paying voters. A sheriff who wants to keep getting re-elected would not keep a guy that tazers grannies around. That is not ignorance, that is common sense.

As for the attitude that cops are always right; I am thankful that we have the courts to let them know how wrong they can be.
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:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

If you'd like an example of ignorance, look no further than your post.

By your reasoning, a person murdered should have expected no less, after all they pissed off their killer in some manner.

Businesses shouldn't complain about shoplifters because they have somehow screwed over the thief by high prices, not enough selection, or something else (even thought they are free to shop elsewhere).

Had your house broken into? Too bad, get over it. After all, if you had been more generous crank heads wouldn't have need to....


Give-me-a-fricken-break! :barf:

 
TBO-
A cops job as i learned it was to serve and protect; not tazer grannies.

I think what I have said about keeping voter happy is common sense. Our sheriff has a lot of people pissed, I'll bet you a dougnut that he doesn't get re-elected.
 
"I think what I have said about keeping voter happy is common sense. Our sheriff has a lot of people pissed, I'll bet you a dougnut that he doesn't get re-elected".

yup..lol. folks gotta know their limitations.


as far as the title of the thread? Respect is something that is earned, not expected nor given.I am not a sheeple and therefor can make up my own mind about foolishness such as this tasering and obeying every command yadda yadda yadda.
 
TBO-
A cops job as i learned it
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I didn't know you were or use to be an LEO
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I saw the video last nite. MSNBC reports the granny got jolted FIVE times with the first beginning as she was seated. The rest when she was on the floor.

Rick
 
i noticed you didn't deny your remarks were smart aleck though. fine. you assume my jury is in. you are wrong. you know about people that assume correct?

you're attempt to hold yourself up as a messenger wrong also. you are not a messenger. you were revealing your own thoughts not someone elses.

you don't have to capitalize "You". i realize i started this topic. my attention span is at least that long. so stop playing daddy and telling me to cool it.

your position as staff does not give you the right to talk down to people, or does it, and then threaten me for all to see. so big of you to address me and then tell me i can't reply or else.

can't people see that this woman brought this on herself? cop says sit, you sit. cop says stand, you stand. he did not ask her to build a space shuttle or commit a crime. just to comply with being handcuffed. she was making his job more difficult and wasting his time. next time some of you complain about the slow response from cops keep this in mind.

go ahead and can me now rich. i am sure it will make you feel powerful.



Jeff-
Cool your jets.

There was nothing childish about my remarks. I simply pointed up how MY jury is out and YOURS has already brought in a finding of "Nothing to see here".

Get over it or debate it....sensibly, without attacking the messenger.

Don't like stories like this (which YOU brought into this forum)? Then work to change mentalities on both sides of the divide. Don't lecture us about that which any free citizen finds abhorrent: "If you fail to comply, you deserve the result.".
Rich
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Ever wonder why these types of threads are about as useless as...

Rich states; to work to change mentalities on both sides of the divide
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To that i would say "good luck" on this or any other gun type forum.

I've been posting on this site since 1999 - observing that these types of threads invariably break down into pissing match's between contestants of opposing views - arguing there side is always righteous.

Every officer should be evaluated on his or her own merits - dealing with the particular situation that one is involved in. Instead of making broad and generally sweeping statements about police as a working class people. These types of generalizations are lacking in foundation and are biased from the get go.

12-34hom.
 
TBO-
A cops job as i learned it was to serve and protect; not tazer grannies.

I think what I have said about keeping voter happy is common sense. Our sheriff has a lot of people pissed, I'll bet you a dougnut that he doesn't get re-elected.
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How old are you, CrazyKid?
 
12-34-
Agreed as to taking each case on its own merits and as an individual incident. Too many without uniforms paint the entire uniformed class with the same brush. But then, too many in uniform, immediately react personally to any of these reports because they're guilty of the same offense...broad brushing on the other side....that all LEO's are just "doing their jobs". A few, as in every other field of human endeavor, especially those where one wields power over another, are willing to do far more than their jobs. That's an unfortunate fact of life that needs to be corrected on an individual basis....not swept under the rug, as too often happens.

Jeff-
Nobody has threatened you. Nobody's gonna "can" you for taking me on. I simply wish you'd do so in a less dizzying, more articulate manner.

People instinctively pull away when others try to place hands on them. That is simple survival instinct. That is why we have the concept of Force Continuum. I think that we can all agree, unless it is shown that this grandmother attacked this rather large young officer, the Taser is at the far end of the Force Continuum...about as much violence as required.

So, the question on the floor is whether there were intermediate steps used before the [in context] drastic measure of 50K volts. If there were none; if the woman simply pulled away after having hands placed on her and was Tased as a result, the cop was wrong...period. This was not a roadside stop; it did not occur in her kitchen. It occurred in a damned Police Station.

Rich
 
Let me ask the LEO's here a question:
You're patrolling the park and see me order my 9 month old DOG into the truck. He fails to obey. So I turn his shock collar up to max (far less than 50K volts) and put him down for 3-5 seconds, howling and writhing in agony.

Would you accept my explanation that he disobeyed orders and had it coming; or would you, ummm, "extend that interview" just a bit? What if it was my teenage daughter, trying to leave the house to go joy riding with her friends at 11 PM?

I hope the universal response would be to step in. I know I would.

And so it is with the Taser. Some people are being so dumbed down to it that they see it as a convenient device for compliance and are more than willing to lower the bar for when it's used. Fact is, it's a very useful tool of Less-Than-Lethal Violence. But it's extreme violence nonetheless. Did this Grandmother deserve such extreme violence. I don't know yet. Others apparently have already concluded, "yes".
Rich
 
Proving that, when you've only got a hammer in your toolbox, every problem looks like a nail and you need to question whether you have what it takes to be a real carpenter.
:cool: :D :cool:
Rich
 
Every officer should be evaluated on his or her own merits - dealing with the particular situation that one is involved in. Instead of making broad and generally sweeping statements about police as a working class people. These types of generalizations are lacking in foundation and are biased from the get go.
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The problem isn't that people paint with a broad brush. The problem is that the gen public is being more and more exposed to bad experiences with bad cops.

It only takes ONE bad unjust experience with a LEO and that John Q will forever be a cop basher no matter what. And that person tells 2 people who tell 2 people.... and so on. In the end, law enforcement gets a bad reputation that slowly grows to include the entire community.

Those who are LEO, ask yourself this question: Do you really think about why you don't trust the govt?

Could it be that because our forefathers didn't trust the English govt due to the bad experiences they had with it? Don't you think it's plausible that they instilled that same distrust into their children and ultimately into us?

Do you really think that there is any difference between that distrust and distrust of todays law enforcement?

I don't. Law enforcement is untrusted because they deserve it for not thinking about the problem and fixing it when it first started. Rogue cops destroyed the trust of the public, Top Brass failed to stop it then, it still continues today, and the people have long memories.
 
So...basically....

an elderly woman is tazed for moving slow?
Come on, guys. I chide myself for complaining about elderly people driving. Yes, some may tick me off, but I hold my cool because: I WAS RAISED TO RESPECT ELDERS (actually, to respect everyone). I cannot fathom even YELLING at an elderly person (though I find myself wanting to), let alone lay my hands on them. I've met some onery geriatrics, but I'd never react to them the way I would with an adult male.

I am ashamed for this cop, and all those who support tazing an ELDERLY WOMAN (unless she was a serious threat to life and limb).

My own grandparents are slow moving. My grandmother doesn't understand English very well. Should they be tazed, even if it is in the rights of the cops to do so? No.

If the granny "got what she deserved," then all I have to say is: Do this to my granny and the one who did the tazing will get "what HE deserves, X 10." (Justice, Severian-style)

It's about doing what's RIGHT, even if it puts you at a disadvantage or inconvenience.
 
It might have been a good tasing. We don't have enough facts.

Kidwell was there "to check on" her granddaughter, who was at the station giving a statement against Kidwell for family violence assault. We don't know what the level of bodily injury was.

Over the last 20 years, there's been a big push, nationwide, to put "duty to act" provisions into legislation concerning officers investigating cases in which they have probable cause to believe that family violence has occured.

If Lt. Bowling had been taking the granddaughter's statement and had probable cause to believe that Kidwell had committed an act of family violence, he had a duty to arrest her. Let's accept that for a second. Let's drop the subject of age or anything (how old was the victim? 12? 15? What was the method or level of assault? We don't know.), and accept that Ms. Kidwell was going to be arrested.

Ms. Kidwell, apparently, did not wish to comply with being arrested. We can't really see much of what kind of resistance she put up, other than that she kept moving her hands away from the 'cuffs. The video isn't good. It looks sort of like she pawed at the officer, but that's not for certain.

Here's where we have a decision point. The officer has told her that he's under arrest. She refuses. He needs to finish taking her into custody.

Back in the day, his only choices were to:
A: Back off. (Not really a choice.)
B: Call for some help.
C. Dive in and wrestle handcuffs on her and hope he didn't hurt her.

Now, he's got the Taser. The good part of the Taser is that he won't risk breaking her wrist while he wrestles 'cuffs onto her. The bad part is... well, this mess.

Please note that the "hospitalization" that she received was probably the mandatory checkup that a person gets (at the hospital, in this case) after they've been tased.

Please note Ms. Kidwell did plead "no contest" to the Assault charge.

Please note that I'm not saying that Lt. Bowling necessarily did the best thing in the circumstance, I'm just saying that he didn't necessarily do the WRONG thing in the circumstance.

Best regards and play nice,

L.P.
 
Please note that I'm not saying that Lt. Bowling necessarily did the best thing in the circumstance, I'm just saying that he didn't necessarily do the WRONG thing in the circumstance.
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Matt-
I couldn't agree more and have stated so in my own posts.

In fact, we may just find out that the Lt. had just come from witnessing the fresh cigarette burns on a 12 year old's body. Puts a pretty different complexion on it, yes?

But the point of this thread was not whether the cop had done the right thing. The originator's point was simply this:
"When will people learn?" ie: An elderly woman has no reason to complain when she's Tased for failure to comply. No info on time frame or circumstances was required for that point. Simply that she refused to immediately comply.

Those who call for the LEO's immediate dismissal are no less culpable of conclusion-jumping than the originator. Only difference: they're sanctioning legal action, not potentially gratuitous Governmental violence against its citizens.
Rich
 
It might have been a good tasing. We don't have enough facts.

Kidwell was there "to check on" her granddaughter, who was at the station giving a statement against Kidwell for family violence assault. We don't know what the level of bodily injury was.

Over the last 20 years, there's been a big push, nationwide, to put in "duty to act" provisions into legislation concerning officers investigating cases in which they have probable cause to believe that family violence has occurred.

If Lt. Bowling had been taking the granddaughter's statement and had probable cause to believe that Kidwell had committed an act of family violence, he had a duty to arrest her. Let's accept that for a second. Let's drop the subject of age or anything (how old was the victim? 12? 15? What was the method or level of assault? We don't know.), and accept that Ms. Kidwell was going to be arrested.

Ms. Kidwell, apparently, did not wish to comply with being arrested. We can't really see much of what kind of resistance she put up, other than that she kept moving her hands away from the 'cuffs. The video isn't good. It looks sort of like she pawed at the officer, but that's not for certain.

Here's where we have a decision point. The officer has told her that he's under arrest. She refuses. He needs to finish taking her into custody.

Back in the day, his only choices were to:
A: Back off. (Not really a choice.)
B: Call for some help.
C. Dive in and wrestle handcuffs on her and hope he didn't hurt her.

Now, he's got the Taser. The good part of the Taser is that he won't risk braking her wrist while he wrestles 'cuffs onto her. The bad part is... well, this mess.

Please note that the "hospitalization" that she received was probably the mandatory checkup that a person gets (at the hospital, in this case) after they've been tased.

Please note Ms. Kidwell did plead "no contest" to the Assault charge.

Please note that I'm not saying that Lt. Bowling necessarily did the best thing in the circumstance, I'm just saying that he didn't necessarily do the WRONG thing in the circumstance.

Best regards and play nice,

L.P.
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Free of excessive bias, conjecture, and grandstanding
 
I am 22. Not sure what that has to do about anything though... I have never been, am not currently, or will ever be a LEO. But I know enough that just becasue you have authority does not mean you have respect. Authority is given but without respect being earned, authority is nothing. I learned in government classes, politics and law, and talking to a few of the good LEOs that hang around at work that a cops duty is primarily to protect and serve. Plus they advertise it on their vehicles.:D
 
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