George W. Bush (Warning: Lengthy)

Eghad;

The reason the FEMA officials have not taken charge is because FEMA is organized as a support organization. They take your emergency management plan and provide support in the areas you need support.

This has always worked in the past.

FEMA was just not prepared to deal with this level of incompetence. The best thing that could happen in this situation is for FEMA to take over (I assume that they are properly equipped for the lead role, I may be wrong) or for the military to take over. (BTW I am a big advocate of states rights and have real trouble with the Federal Government taking over what I believe to be a state function).

FEMA defers to NOLA because that is what they are supposed to do. It is assumed that the local government is competent and can implement their plans.

In this case the assumption is obviously incorrect. I understand your desire to place blame, and honestly, IMHO, the blame should go to the top; but understand, the system has always worked in the past. I am sure that the President did not feel the need to restructure a program that has worked in the past. I am sure that he will reconsider now.

NOLA is the absolute peak of bureaucratic incompetence, again the Mayor is not even present, he has left his sinking ship. He has no problem placing the blame elsewhere.

Charles
 
I hear ya......again

but there is a time to play by the book and a time to throw the book out the window if it aint workin.

Why would anyone expect NOLA to have the power to deal with this anyway. If that was the plan a lot of folks need to be taken out back for some wall to wall counseling. If that was FEMAs plan for a Cat 5 Hurricane hitting the city that was bad planning.

I just dont usderstand some of the delays :confused:

but then again I never was a politician nor a bureacrat, just a get it done kinda guy.

The President also has the power to declare a state of emergency......
 
eghed:

I believe the Tracinski commentary refers to conditions caused by so many on welfare who choose to be on the rolls rather than work, and does not refer to those who can't work. And I doubt that those whose morals are decent were the ones firing on police officers, helicopters, rescue teams, or committing rape, robbery, and looting.

It will be interesting to see, of those on welfare, how many of those who have chosen to stay in NO, or how many of those who were evacuated, will return to accept the offer to help clean up the city FOR PAY!

Or might they instead choose to be shipped to TX, TN, GA, KY, IL, or wherever, and remain on welfare??
 
but there is a time to play by the book and a time to throw the book out the window if it aint workin.
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I agree with you 100%. If it does not work it needs to be fixed now.

I must tell you, attempting to provide help was the most frustrating thing I have ever done in my life.
but then again I never was a politician nor a bureacrat, just a get it done kinda guy.
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Me and 38 other firefighters felt the same way. I really wish someone would take over. Again, I am a big advocate of States rights, but if the state is incompetent and people are dying something different needs to happen.

Charles
 
It will be interesting to see, of those on welfare, how many of those who have chosen to stay in NO, or how many of those who were evacuated, will return to accept the offer to help clean up the city FOR PAY!
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I believe you already know the answer to that.

BTW of the people we contacted doing search and rescue only about 50% of people would leave. This is after being told we would not come back, there will not be anymore water or food delivered.

Charles
 
Eghad, normally I have a bit of respect for your opinions, but in this case you are just jumping and dodging, with more one liners than rodney dangerfield.

What is so hard for you to address? Why is is so hard for you to grasp the simple concept?

Pres. Bush freed up resources BEFORE the hurricane even hit. The ball as you put it, was now in NOLA leaderships court. THEY DROPPED THE BALL. But because of some pesky LAWS and RIGHTS, the President does not have the authority to trample over STATES GOVERNMENTS as he pleases. This is not a monarchy. The LAW dictates that STATE leadership must request the aid. The ALMIGHTY PRESIDENT cannot FORCE it on them.

All this talk of stepping to the plate. I don't see you dusting it off.....

So because the State leadership FAILED MISERABLY, the Pres should ignore the LAW and just use FEDERAL POWER to TAKE OVER? Is that what you are implying? NOLA CONTINUES to slow and halt efforts by other groups with their politics.

The Dems drop the ball, but still refuse to hand over their precious power to the evil republican dictator and his terrible troops! All the while screaming ITS NOT OUR FAULT, ITS HIS....while people continue to die......

When all is said and done this little song and dance number will set democrats/liberals back 100 years. Out of their own mouths no less.....
 
I am taking some clothes down this week to be used for evacuees in Beaumont....

plan on donating some more money when the next paycheck comes in.

I have already purchased a subscription to SWAT because the money goes to the vicitims

Plan on making some more donations....

as for stepping up to the plate I did that with over 28 years of service to my country as a Reservist and over 18 years and continuing as a civilian DoD Employee and a tour on the Global War on Terrorism. I was medically retired against my will and was 50% disabled in the end.

I have already submitted my name to volunteer again to support the War on Terrorism in any capacity I can.

If I got a call today to be recalled to active duty to support the relief effort to katrina.. My uniforms are ready....

The President has the power to replace NOLA as the leading agency.

I see you missed my post that anyone who rationally thought that NOLA had the capability to handle relief efforts after a disaster of the magnitude needs to be examined....

Who would have the most resources NOLA of FEMA ?

This isnt about Republicans nor Democrats... but about a vacuum of leadership.
 
When all is said and done this little song and dance number will set democrats/liberals back 100 years. Out of their own mouths no less.....
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Exactly my point, only better worded.

Right now the liberal/left is foaming at the mouth thinking an investigation will indict the Bush administration. But it's clear that this can only point back to the criminal incompetence of the democratic mayor and governor, and the whole non-agenda of their party.
Why is is so hard for you to grasp the simple concept?
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Because he doesn't want to admit he's wrong, that Bush is doing a good job.
 
Nobody is doing a good job in this debacle....


You forget Rebar that some Republicans have also had some words to say about this and were also calling for an Investigation

John Kyl
Trentt Lott
Collins



thats all I got to say on this.
 
You forget Rebar that some Republicans have also had some words to say about this and were also calling for an Investigation
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It's smart politics, to give your enemy the rope that they will hang themselves with.
 
"It's smart politics, to give your enemy the rope that they will hang themselves with."

You're kidding, right? Before I started reading this thread I thought it was only the Left that closed its eyes, stuck its thumbs in its ears and imagined things only the way they wanted to, all facts to the contrary.

Thanks for clearing that up for me.
 
Before I started reading this thread I thought it was only the Left that closed its eyes, stuck its thumbs in its ears and imagined things only the way they wanted to, all facts to the contrary.
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I don't know what you mean.

It seems pretty obvious that blaming Bush won't get any traction at all:
The first polls, no surprise, show the libels are not working. A Washington Post-ABC survey found that the president is not seen as the villain the nutcake left is trying to make him out to be. Americans, skeptical as ever, are believing their own eyes.
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http://www.washtimes.com/national/pruden.htm

Blame will be dished out, Bush won't get any, where then is it going to land?
 
The situation in New Orleans is incredibly frustrating and I wish it were possible for the incompetents to be pushed aside so that the people of the area could be aided more effectively.

However...

We live in a democratic republic. The Constitution and Congress have defined the responsibility of the state and municpal governments to be in charge of local matters and for the federal government to provide assistance to the state and municipal governments, if and as requested.

If the federal government pushed aside the state and municipal governments and illegally took charge, heads would roll, and rightfully so. Even though the urge to "get things done" is tremendous, it does not justify sundering the very fabric of our nation's system of government.

If changes need to be made in the relationship between the federal government and state and municipal governments, let those changes be made in law by the people's representatives. But changes should not be made unilaterally and illegally by the President, because therein lies the road to despotism.
 
The presidency is the one position where its holder must be able to slide smoothly back and forth between two jobs. Both are critical. A failure in either will doom a presidency. Both are required to be present at any given time

Two jobs? ohh, yea. Leader and manager.

Bush has consistently confused the two. Immediately after 911 he had his bull horn moment where almost by accident he acted like a leader and the nation and world responded in great ways. Immediately after Katrina he acted like a manager. Kept to his schedule, didn't showboat. He left the coordination of efforts to the people he hired to do those jobs. He kept his personal presence under wraps for lots of good and rational reasons. He made the assumption he was paid by the American people to be a manager and acted that way.

Problem is during events like Katrina the need of the moment will shift unannounced from management to leadership. He went with the shift and acted the leader when he first flew to the storm region. I knew instinctively he was going to kick butt and take names and that is exactly what happened. In other words he acted the leader in providing inspiration to the grunts. The only mistake was he was about one day late. He spent the day acting the manager when he probably should have acted the leader and headed for the disaster zone.
 
Waitone-
Persuasive argument, but I disagree. Heads of large organizations, from Corporations to Governments should never be "Managers". Why? Because their subordinates should know their individual jobs far better than than the boss. If they don't, they provide nothing value added to the organization.

Other than signing the Emergency Order, there was very little Bush could have (or should have) done on the operational front. Were he to begin to "manage" the situation, he would only have been in the way of others far more operationally capable than he....assuming his subordinates were capable.

No, I think his job is to Lead and not to Manage. Part of that leadership is Team Building. As an example, I don't have to know the details of getting food and water to 1 million plus people in a crisis....I need only know whether the person I have put in that position is capable. And any leader who's paying attention should know that going in, just by the level of preparation of that subordinate during non-crisis conversations.

When a leader must start to "manage", you can bet there's problems in the organization. In this case, Bush was forced to manage because his partners, Gov. Blanco and the NOLA Mayor, utterly failed to do **their** jobs and Brown utterly failed to figure a way to obtain delegation of authority from them.
Rich
 
I evidently wasn't clear in my distinction.

Management from the executive suite entails making sure those tasked with certain responsiblities in fact carry those responsibilities out. Managers at the executive level ask questions for a lot of reasons, one of which is to make sure subordinates know the boss is watching. If the exec gets into doing subordinates jobs then he has just surrendered effectiveness.

Leadership in my evaluation is up front, public and conducting theatre for the benefit of those who, in this case, suffer. Bush needed to be public. Not immediately after the disaster but sometime between the end of the damage and when he did arrive. He needed to be visible in kicking butt, and encouraging, and serving as a point of inspiration that those in the disaster area were not forgotten and they will be helped, etc.

I maintain Bush is much more comfortable in ragging his subordinates than he is operating a bullhorn.
 
I think we're coming at the same issue from opposite angles. You feel that Bush was acting as a "manager" because he's more comfortable that way. I say he was doing so because he had no choice once the Fed/State cooperation disintegrated.

Leadership in my evaluation is up front, public and conducting theatre for the benefit of those...
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Couldn't agree less. Leadership, whether in military, corporate America or politics is putting the right people into the right jobs and then giving them the resources they need to do those jobs. Leadership means developing a team spirit such that loss of one's job pales in comparison to the thought of letting down the Team.....and that is only done by careful hiring and earning mutual respect. <1% of Leadership is about cutting a good public image at Pep Rally's.

Is Bush a natural "leader"?...I'm not at all certain as I'm not privy to the inner circle workings. Did he fail to lead in this case?....time will tell. But Brown's capabilities are certainly in question, and for that Bush takes responsibility. OTOH, I suspect if the LA partners in this had done their jobs, the FEMA bureaucracy would have chugged along smoothly on autopilot. It was only when key players refused to step up that everyone's mettle was tested. How well Bush "Led" in that circumstance remains to be seen.
Rich
 
Bush's performance will be judged on his public actions. Not the behind the scenes stuff. What is not seen is typically the most important in affecting outcomes. Trouble is as president he will be judged on his public performance which in my opinion was lacking.
 
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