George W. Bush (Warning: Lengthy)
- Thread starter 38splfan
- Start date
Let me recap your argument Rebar
Republicans have leadership
Democrats have no leadership
That Bush is the President is not responsible for everything while Nagin and Blanco who are also the chief executives for govenrment units much like Bush is should be held responsible for everything?
Republicans have leadership
Democrats have no leadership
That Bush is the President is not responsible for everything while Nagin and Blanco who are also the chief executives for govenrment units much like Bush is should be held responsible for everything?
Gentleman,
I just returned from NOLA yesterday. I was tasked out with a team of 39 firefighters and medics, we were self supported, sanctioned, well equipped, well armed and well trained. We had our own boats medic units, command trailer, van for non-critical transport. We are search and rescue trained. In about 60 hours of work time we were utilized less than 5. We were frequently assigned to task that had already been completed, or after the assignment and deployment the priority would change and they would pull us out and re-task us. Sunday we drove 190 miles around for 90 minutes of search and rescue.
This was the most frustrating tasking I have ever been involved in. I can elaborate more, but in the interests of keeping this post reasonable in length. The blame lands square on the NOLA government. We asked FEMA if we could relieve a group that had been on duty for 72 hours. FEMA though it was a great idea, but was told by NOLA command that relief was already scheduled and on the way. We were told NO. Fourteen hours later, the same crew was still working triage.
Charles
I just returned from NOLA yesterday. I was tasked out with a team of 39 firefighters and medics, we were self supported, sanctioned, well equipped, well armed and well trained. We had our own boats medic units, command trailer, van for non-critical transport. We are search and rescue trained. In about 60 hours of work time we were utilized less than 5. We were frequently assigned to task that had already been completed, or after the assignment and deployment the priority would change and they would pull us out and re-task us. Sunday we drove 190 miles around for 90 minutes of search and rescue.
This was the most frustrating tasking I have ever been involved in. I can elaborate more, but in the interests of keeping this post reasonable in length. The blame lands square on the NOLA government. We asked FEMA if we could relieve a group that had been on duty for 72 hours. FEMA though it was a great idea, but was told by NOLA command that relief was already scheduled and on the way. We were told NO. Fourteen hours later, the same crew was still working triage.
Charles
Attachments
It was the rediculous incompetency of both the mayor and governor, who are the primary executives in charge of disaster managment for their city and state, that cause this crisis. That Bush had to come in and clean up their mess, and now is being blamed for that mess, is typical of the liberal/left.
The simple fact, that you all are trying to hide, is that if the mayor and governor did their jobs, the disaster wouldn't have gotten so out of control so quickly. Considering the total collapse of leadership in NOLA, Bush did well in getting things squared away as quickly as he did.
I am not blaming any one more than the other each will have to shoulder blame for for the outcome.
If it was a Democratic President in office and Republicans in charge in NO and LA my comments would still be the same.
Seems to me somebody needs to step up to the plate and take a leadership position. If NOLA doesnt want to do that then the federal governement needs to tell them lead follow or get the hell out of the way or as Nike says "just do it" and ask for forgivness later.
Seems to me that this is a game of bureaucratic buck passing between FEMA and NOLA where nobody wants to claim responsibility.
If it was a Democratic President in office and Republicans in charge in NO and LA my comments would still be the same.
Seems to me somebody needs to step up to the plate and take a leadership position. If NOLA doesnt want to do that then the federal governement needs to tell them lead follow or get the hell out of the way or as Nike says "just do it" and ask for forgivness later.
Seems to me that this is a game of bureaucratic buck passing between FEMA and NOLA where nobody wants to claim responsibility.
Eghad, your education is still lacking, I see. Particularly the Constitutional part.
First, this part:
Actually, I've worked disaster recovery in concert with FEMA, and saw those rules in action first hand. 1997, great Sacramento Flood, I've got the Humanitarian Service Medal and muddy BDU's to prove it. What do you have, pray tell?
Now this:
Damn right. It was a smart thing to do on the President's part, calling it a disaster area before the storm arrived. It freed up resources and enabled relief to come pouring in. Here's the hard part you don't quite understand, though. Even though the relief was freed up from the White House side of the country, it still had to be requested by the local and state governments before it could move. It's called Constitutional Law, State's Rights, and all that bothersome stuff the liberals hate to deal with. One of those nagging little things that prevent the Federal Government from walking all over the States, in short. And if New Orleans Mayor Nagin and Louisiana Governor Blanco didn't ask for the Federal Assistance, no amount of that freed-up Federal help President Bush allocated could cross into the Louisiana side of the state border. And guess what didn't happen, even when the Prez got things ready, waiting for that official request for help? You got it, the request didn't come, and when it did, it was already late. Governor Blanco requested a 24-hour delay from President Bush sho she could mull over her decision to request Federal Assistance. See here:
http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_2726584.shtml
First, this part:
Actually, I've worked disaster recovery in concert with FEMA, and saw those rules in action first hand. 1997, great Sacramento Flood, I've got the Humanitarian Service Medal and muddy BDU's to prove it. What do you have, pray tell?
Now this:
Damn right. It was a smart thing to do on the President's part, calling it a disaster area before the storm arrived. It freed up resources and enabled relief to come pouring in. Here's the hard part you don't quite understand, though. Even though the relief was freed up from the White House side of the country, it still had to be requested by the local and state governments before it could move. It's called Constitutional Law, State's Rights, and all that bothersome stuff the liberals hate to deal with. One of those nagging little things that prevent the Federal Government from walking all over the States, in short. And if New Orleans Mayor Nagin and Louisiana Governor Blanco didn't ask for the Federal Assistance, no amount of that freed-up Federal help President Bush allocated could cross into the Louisiana side of the state border. And guess what didn't happen, even when the Prez got things ready, waiting for that official request for help? You got it, the request didn't come, and when it did, it was already late. Governor Blanco requested a 24-hour delay from President Bush sho she could mull over her decision to request Federal Assistance. See here:
http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_2726584.shtml
No, you blamed Bush, and no one else. Go back and reread your posts.
If you say so, I have my doubts. Your past posts clearly show you hate Bush and takes every opportunity to bash him.
Who needed to step up is clear - the mayor and governor. The mistake Bush made was assuming that they were competent enough to handle their duty.
It's the mayor and governor trying to pass the buck to the feds and Bush. If blame needs to be placed, shouldn't it be placed on those with primary responsibility?
I think that if the mayor and governor were white male republicans, the liberal/left would be having a field day dumping blame on them. Since they're not, they're trying to put it all on Bush. Well, it ain't going to work, and in the end the blame-game will backfire on them and make them look like nasty and petty partisans.
Never had the chance to work disaster relief domestically
I do have a Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal and did logistics for Northern Afghanistan which included humantarian aid. many years experience running logisitcs (LSA) at major excercises for the Rangers, 82nd, 101st, 1st Cav...ect..ect.
I do have a Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal and did logistics for Northern Afghanistan which included humantarian aid. many years experience running logisitcs (LSA) at major excercises for the Rangers, 82nd, 101st, 1st Cav...ect..ect.
Rebar
I dont hate Bush......
learned to stop hating a long time ago...you should to
I just disagree with some of his policies
I voted for Bush for all his terms as Govenor of Texas and His first term as President.
I didnt vote for him his second term because I disagree with his policies in the current war in Iraq.
yes I blame Bush for some of this because he is the man that cracks the whip and the head man in charge......
if hes not in charge and responsible then who is?
I dont hate Bush......
learned to stop hating a long time ago...you should to
I just disagree with some of his policies
I voted for Bush for all his terms as Govenor of Texas and His first term as President.
I didnt vote for him his second term because I disagree with his policies in the current war in Iraq.
yes I blame Bush for some of this because he is the man that cracks the whip and the head man in charge......
if hes not in charge and responsible then who is?
You're in charge, Eghad.
You are. Vote to change the Constitution and eliminate State's Rights. Then the Federal Government can march in any time they want, regardless of the wishes and sovereign rights of local and state government. But be damned careful of what you wish for, because it's a double-edged sword, and I seriously doubt the Founding Fathers had a totally Federal Government in mind when they set pen to paper.
You'll get the rescue response you want from the President on down, and all the extra government you don't.
You are. Vote to change the Constitution and eliminate State's Rights. Then the Federal Government can march in any time they want, regardless of the wishes and sovereign rights of local and state government. But be damned careful of what you wish for, because it's a double-edged sword, and I seriously doubt the Founding Fathers had a totally Federal Government in mind when they set pen to paper.
You'll get the rescue response you want from the President on down, and all the extra government you don't.
To even ask that question shows you're not paying attention.
I've already stated several times, that the mayor and governor are responsible for being prepared for disasters in their city and state respectively.
For example, the mayor made the superdome an emergency shelter, yet nothing was done to prepare it for that purpose. Explain how that's Bush's fault. The Louisiana National Guard, it was the Governor's responsibility to deploy them, how is it Bush's fault that they weren't sent earlier. The list of things the mayor and governor were suppost to do, and either did not do or did a half-fast job, is nearly endless.
It's not Bush's job to make sure a mayor or governor does their job. And it's completely inappropriate to try and blame him for others failing in their duty. The issue is so clear, whom to blame is so clear, that the only reason someone would try to blame Bush, is purely for partisan reasons.
As I stated before. I have been there. I have the T-Shirt. (Just kidding).
Rebar is correct. The problem is not with W. The problem was and still is with the city management. I stated in my previous post one of the many problems I personally encountered with the NOLA administration. Either you did not read it or ignored it. I can site many other examples.
The best thing that could happen to the city is for someone other than NOLA Gov to be in charge. PEOPLE ARE DYING BECAUSE NOLA IS IN CHARGE. The hardest thing I have ever done is to leave, people need help, NOLA is so disorganized that they are incapable of helping and will not let anyone else help.
We were a self contained search and rescue unit. We were not allowed to search the southern parishes (that have not been searched). NOLA was too busy to allow us to make our own assignment, or to assign us a task.
These problems are not the fault of the Federal Government, they are the fault of the local administration.
Charles
Rebar is correct. The problem is not with W. The problem was and still is with the city management. I stated in my previous post one of the many problems I personally encountered with the NOLA administration. Either you did not read it or ignored it. I can site many other examples.
The best thing that could happen to the city is for someone other than NOLA Gov to be in charge. PEOPLE ARE DYING BECAUSE NOLA IS IN CHARGE. The hardest thing I have ever done is to leave, people need help, NOLA is so disorganized that they are incapable of helping and will not let anyone else help.
We were a self contained search and rescue unit. We were not allowed to search the southern parishes (that have not been searched). NOLA was too busy to allow us to make our own assignment, or to assign us a task.
These problems are not the fault of the Federal Government, they are the fault of the local administration.
Charles
Bush is PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES
Why doesnt FEMA step up to the plate then? or the State?
I understood what you are saying.......and what you have said.
but somebody needs to step up to the plate here....instead of playing bureaucratic bat the ball to the other folks.
All I can say is that if I was a FEMA official in charge you would have been put to to work....
not given a excuse out of the Book of Bureaucratic Excuses.
Seems to me most of the time the Feds have no problem taking charge....
Why doesnt FEMA step up to the plate then? or the State?
I understood what you are saying.......and what you have said.
but somebody needs to step up to the plate here....instead of playing bureaucratic bat the ball to the other folks.
All I can say is that if I was a FEMA official in charge you would have been put to to work....
not given a excuse out of the Book of Bureaucratic Excuses.
Seems to me most of the time the Feds have no problem taking charge....