Gasp! Shock! Savage Arms use an ... Indian!!!
- Thread starter Bruce in West Oz
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Mike Irwin
Staff
Cracker Arms...
How about Cracker Barrel restaurant?
Where us redneck white guys go to get fat?
How about Cracker Barrel restaurant?
Where us redneck white guys go to get fat?
Calamity Jane
New member
Cracker Arms. *snicker* That's kind of funny. 
Speaking as a cracker who is part Cherokee, Welsh, and Austrian
, I don't think Savage Arms meant to offend anyone by their choice of logo, and I would not boycott them for such.
Mmmmmmm...Cracker Barrel.
You're makin' this here Tennessee gal right peckish.
Speaking as a cracker who is part Cherokee, Welsh, and Austrian
, I don't think Savage Arms meant to offend anyone by their choice of logo, and I would not boycott them for such. Mmmmmmm...Cracker Barrel.
You're makin' this here Tennessee gal right peckish.I'm an American that just happens to be 1/4 Cherokee, 1/4 Irish, and 1/2 Finnish.
I feel that it is a tribute to ethnic groups when we name something after them. They should be honored.
My mother was 1/2 Finn and 1/2 Cherokee and darn it her skin WAS red, and she was proud of it. Around our house redskin was a term of endearment.
nuff said.....where can I get one of dem cracker guns?????
I feel that it is a tribute to ethnic groups when we name something after them. They should be honored.
My mother was 1/2 Finn and 1/2 Cherokee and darn it her skin WAS red, and she was proud of it. Around our house redskin was a term of endearment.
nuff said.....where can I get one of dem cracker guns?????
biganimal: You were half drunk... weren't you.
Hey, if nothing else this gets our minds off of the damn anthrax hysteria.
Regarding the Aunt Jemima and black bean analogies - No one has a problem with accurate descriptions and or pronouns. If the name "darky" accompanied the image of Aunt Jemima it would be pulled from the market. If the beans were market as "Nigger" beans and advertised as a favorite food of "Wetbacks" it too would be pulled. "click on the gangbangers head to go to the home page amigo"
So far, one 100% Cree has replied, and he doesn't like it. That's what you asked for... right?
It's just seems odd to me that so many people here have rallied to preserve their "right" to use an old racial slur. Some of the comments remind me of other arguments, such as, " Some women like to be slapped around" or Blacks call each other nigger so what's the big deal with me saying it". "Dammit we always called em redskins and that ain't gonna stop now".
My point is that there are other options. For Christ sake, there are what.... 300,000 or so words in the English language? One person here pointed out that I was being PC and that hyphenated Americans are BS. I agree. Americans are Americans. So why are we calling American Indians "Redskins" and using an entire culture as mascots. They are American citizens - not mascots. They helped raise the great buildings in this country, and the flag at Mount Suribachi. Many of them will be doing the rebuilding of the World trade towers, if that occurs.
If you think it's your God given right to deride certain cultures and want to support companies that contribute to that....go for it. American Indians put about $40 billion into the US economy these days and smart companies will get some of that.
As for me...my mamma taught me at a young age not to call people names, or make fun of people, and that's all the guidance I need. I call it being mannerly and considerate..not PC.
Hey, if nothing else this gets our minds off of the damn anthrax hysteria.
Regarding the Aunt Jemima and black bean analogies - No one has a problem with accurate descriptions and or pronouns. If the name "darky" accompanied the image of Aunt Jemima it would be pulled from the market. If the beans were market as "Nigger" beans and advertised as a favorite food of "Wetbacks" it too would be pulled. "click on the gangbangers head to go to the home page amigo"
So far, one 100% Cree has replied, and he doesn't like it. That's what you asked for... right?
It's just seems odd to me that so many people here have rallied to preserve their "right" to use an old racial slur. Some of the comments remind me of other arguments, such as, " Some women like to be slapped around" or Blacks call each other nigger so what's the big deal with me saying it". "Dammit we always called em redskins and that ain't gonna stop now".
My point is that there are other options. For Christ sake, there are what.... 300,000 or so words in the English language? One person here pointed out that I was being PC and that hyphenated Americans are BS. I agree. Americans are Americans. So why are we calling American Indians "Redskins" and using an entire culture as mascots. They are American citizens - not mascots. They helped raise the great buildings in this country, and the flag at Mount Suribachi. Many of them will be doing the rebuilding of the World trade towers, if that occurs.
If you think it's your God given right to deride certain cultures and want to support companies that contribute to that....go for it. American Indians put about $40 billion into the US economy these days and smart companies will get some of that.
As for me...my mamma taught me at a young age not to call people names, or make fun of people, and that's all the guidance I need. I call it being mannerly and considerate..not PC.
Shawn Dodson
Moderator
I'm Cherokee, a direct descendant of George Guess (Sequoyah), and a member of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, as are my children. www.cherokee.org
I'm not offended by the Savage logo, nor am I offended by the use of American Indian likenesses as sports mascots, etc.
Heck, my German Shepard is named "Cherokee."
It seems to me that the only ones who claim to be offended are the "professional victims" who use the issue to attract public attention and seek political power.
I'm not offended by the Savage logo, nor am I offended by the use of American Indian likenesses as sports mascots, etc.
Heck, my German Shepard is named "Cherokee."
It seems to me that the only ones who claim to be offended are the "professional victims" who use the issue to attract public attention and seek political power.
As the descendant of Vikings, Indians and African slaves, I often wonder how I get to my car every morning without crumbling under the world's weight of offense.
Seriously, though, this is exactly like if someone had a company named "Strong Buck" and had as their logo an old etching-style picture of a black man, stripped to the waist and totin' that bale. Now, is there anything wrong with being strong? No. Is their anything wrong with being a "buck"? No, not really, when you break it down.
Is there anything wrong with using a stereotyped reference to a time when Americans behaved badly, without apparent perspective? Yes. Enough that I would rethink buying products from "Strong Buck" or "Savage". Until they changed their logos.
Seriously, though, this is exactly like if someone had a company named "Strong Buck" and had as their logo an old etching-style picture of a black man, stripped to the waist and totin' that bale. Now, is there anything wrong with being strong? No. Is their anything wrong with being a "buck"? No, not really, when you break it down.
Is there anything wrong with using a stereotyped reference to a time when Americans behaved badly, without apparent perspective? Yes. Enough that I would rethink buying products from "Strong Buck" or "Savage". Until they changed their logos.
I believe that the reason Savage is called Savage is because that Auther Savage was the orginal owner that started the company. He could name it what he wanted to and he chose his own name just like Winchester, Remington and others. Unfortunatily when people think of Savage then they think of the Indians. According to history they where pretty savage in thier attacks on the whites but they didn't invent scalpin either. The white man started that and the Indians just did it in return. It's gotten to were people are just offended by every little thing even to were thier offended by the way you look at them. I say grow up just a little and be offended by the bigger things in life like terroists doing the things that they do not by a name that or word that has lost it's meaning over the years. I quess that I'm more of a live and let live type of guy but if you mess with me or mine you deserve the end results. This being PC is starting to offend me and I contrubite this concept to Klintons and the soccer moms. :barf:
DoorGunR: I'm tenacious if nothing esle. The only thing I enjoy as much as shooting, is debating. Well...maybe not the only thing.
I'll end this with a joke I heard.
My neighbor had a better stereo system than me, so I took it. He started acting like a savage, so I shot him.
I'll end this with a joke I heard.
My neighbor had a better stereo system than me, so I took it. He started acting like a savage, so I shot him.
If some company/organization/sports team says or does something to offend you, you have the right to not purchase products or patronize that entity. But NOWHERE in the Constitution does it say you have the right to NOT be offended. When persons or organizations decide they don't like what someone else chooses to call themselves - be it Savage Arms, Cleveland Indians, Giants (tall people have feelings) or Fighting Irish, trying to suppress them by lawsuits or legislation is downright odious. Particularly when some of the offended complainers are loudmouthed freeloaders who are not above criminal activity, as is the case for some of the more prominent Indian - excuse me, Native American - activists.
Everything will offend SOMEbody, SOMEtime, SOMEwhere. For crying out loud, people were complaining about the Taco Bell chihuahua dog, saying it was a nasty Mexican stereotype!
Wait until some religious organization - or even the ACLU - decides that religious-based names for non-religious organizations are bad, especially if they every receive some taxpayer subsidy in form of, for example, a stadium; then you can say goodbye to the Angels, Saints, Padres, Blue Devils, etc. PC is running amok!
Everything will offend SOMEbody, SOMEtime, SOMEwhere. For crying out loud, people were complaining about the Taco Bell chihuahua dog, saying it was a nasty Mexican stereotype!
Wait until some religious organization - or even the ACLU - decides that religious-based names for non-religious organizations are bad, especially if they every receive some taxpayer subsidy in form of, for example, a stadium; then you can say goodbye to the Angels, Saints, Padres, Blue Devils, etc. PC is running amok!
This thread needs to die...but I have to ask.
HankB: How do you equate "Angels, Saints, Padres, Blue Devils, etc." with "Redskins"? And let's include Cardinal, Cowboys, Rams, Falcons, 49'rs, Sooners,Gators, etc,etc.
Why is it that the only ETHNIC group of people used as mascot's for sports teams are Indians?
Or perhaps a better question is, why don't we use nicknames for other ethnic groups for that purpose? Why not the "Cameljockeys", etc?
HankB: How do you equate "Angels, Saints, Padres, Blue Devils, etc." with "Redskins"? And let's include Cardinal, Cowboys, Rams, Falcons, 49'rs, Sooners,Gators, etc,etc.
Why is it that the only ETHNIC group of people used as mascot's for sports teams are Indians?
Or perhaps a better question is, why don't we use nicknames for other ethnic groups for that purpose? Why not the "Cameljockeys", etc?
Some of us are still not addressing the question at hand. Biganimal says he doesn't see anything wrong with naming things after Indians and "they should be honored." Aside from the problem of what qualifies one man to tell another man that he has no right to choose what offends and what honors him, 
the whole point is that the company is NOT "named after Indians." If it were the "Indian Gun Corp." or "Cherokee Arms" like Shawn's dog, I'd be right there with you. OF COURSE it makes sense to have a picture of a Cherokee on the box if your company is named after the Cherokee tribe. No one has disputed this in three pages of debate, but there are still a lot of people who insist on defending it for some odd reason.
The company is called SAVAGE ARMS. It makes no difference that it was named after Arthur Savage; if that were relevant, it would be his picture on the site and we would be arguing about 9mm vs. .45 again. If you name your company "SAVAGE" and then you choose an Indian as your logo, you are calling Indians savages. Simple as that. You may not intend offense in calling them that, but if they take offense, that's real. The only full-blooded Indian to reply has told you already that he is offended by this and will boycott the company, and a few posts down people are telling him that he should feel honored instead. You just don't have the right to tell anyone that he has to take an insult and call it an honor, and that's what we're doing here. I'm not afraid to admit that if someone referred to me as a savage I would take offense and demand an apology. If that makes me PC, so be it. But I find it almost funny that if you care to read this thread carefully you can see that declaring oneself NOT to be "PC" has become as orthodox as PC ever was ten years ago. Apparently the pendulum has swung.
the whole point is that the company is NOT "named after Indians." If it were the "Indian Gun Corp." or "Cherokee Arms" like Shawn's dog, I'd be right there with you. OF COURSE it makes sense to have a picture of a Cherokee on the box if your company is named after the Cherokee tribe. No one has disputed this in three pages of debate, but there are still a lot of people who insist on defending it for some odd reason. The company is called SAVAGE ARMS. It makes no difference that it was named after Arthur Savage; if that were relevant, it would be his picture on the site and we would be arguing about 9mm vs. .45 again. If you name your company "SAVAGE" and then you choose an Indian as your logo, you are calling Indians savages. Simple as that. You may not intend offense in calling them that, but if they take offense, that's real. The only full-blooded Indian to reply has told you already that he is offended by this and will boycott the company, and a few posts down people are telling him that he should feel honored instead. You just don't have the right to tell anyone that he has to take an insult and call it an honor, and that's what we're doing here. I'm not afraid to admit that if someone referred to me as a savage I would take offense and demand an apology. If that makes me PC, so be it. But I find it almost funny that if you care to read this thread carefully you can see that declaring oneself NOT to be "PC" has become as orthodox as PC ever was ten years ago. Apparently the pendulum has swung.
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