Vikings, Irish, Celts, and Spartans are all ethnic groups, and are used as sports team names. Or is this another case of the common misconception that "ethnic" is somehow synonymous with "not white"? The assumption that white people are just some monolithic cultureless mass is a common one, and can't be any less offensive than what is being complained about in this thread.
Gasp! Shock! Savage Arms use an ... Indian!!!
- Thread starter Bruce in West Oz
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Vikings, Irish, Celts, and Spartans are all ethnic groups, and are used as sports team names. Or is this another case of the common misconception that "ethnic" is somehow synonymous with "not white"? The assumption that white people are just some monolithic cultureless mass is a common one, and can't be any less offensive than what is being complained about in this thread.
I don't think Mr. Savage chose an Indian logo to indirectly call Indians savages. In his time and place a more direct approach would have been accepted. If he wanted to slander Indians why not put a bottle of Whiskey or somesuch in the logo? I think he wanted to say that his firearms are good enough for the most skilled of the North American Hunter-Warriors, the Indians. It's more like an endorsement than slander. Granted it may a false endorsement and insensitive at some level, but I doubt the intent was out-and-out malicious.
red·skin (rdskn)
n. Offensive Slang
Used as a disparaging term for a Native American.
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
____________________________________________________
redskin n : offensive terms for Native Americans [syn: Redskin, Injun, red man]
Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University
____________________________________________________
savage adj 1: (of persons or their actions) able or disposed to inflict pain or suffering; "a barbarous crime"; "brutal beatings"; "cruel tortures"; "Stalin's roughshod treatment of the kulaks"; "a savage slap"; "vicious kicks" [syn: barbarous, brutal, cruel, fell, roughshod, vicious] 2: wild and menacing; "a ferocious dog" [syn: feral] 3: without civilizing influences; "barbarian invaders"; "barbaric practices"; "a savage people"; "fighting is crude and uncivilized especially if the weapons are efficient"-Margaret Meade; "wild tribes" [syn: barbarian, barbaric, uncivilized, wild] 4: marked by extreme and violent energy; "a ferocious beating"; "fierce fighting"; "a furious battle" [syn: ferocious, fierce, furious] n 1: a member of an uncivilized people [syn: barbarian] 2: a cruelly rapacious person [syn: beast, wolf, brute, wildcat] v : criticize harshly or violently; "The press savaged the new President"
Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University
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sav·age (svj)
adj.
Not domesticated or cultivated; wild: savage beasts of the jungle.
Not civilized; barbaric: a savage people.
Ferocious; fierce: in a savage temper.
Vicious or merciless; brutal: a savage attack on a political rival. See Synonyms at cruel.
Lacking polish or manners; rude.
n.
A person regarded as primitive or uncivilized.
A person regarded as brutal, fierce, or vicious.
A rude person; a boor.
tr.v. sav·aged, sav·ag·ing, sav·ag·es
To assault ferociously.
To attack without restraint or pity: The critics savaged the new play.
[Middle English sauvage, from Old French, from Late Latin salvticus, from Latin silvticus, of the woods, wild, from silva, forest.]
savage·ly adv.
savage·ness n.
Pronunciation Key
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
n. Offensive Slang
Used as a disparaging term for a Native American.
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
____________________________________________________
redskin n : offensive terms for Native Americans [syn: Redskin, Injun, red man]
Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University
____________________________________________________
savage adj 1: (of persons or their actions) able or disposed to inflict pain or suffering; "a barbarous crime"; "brutal beatings"; "cruel tortures"; "Stalin's roughshod treatment of the kulaks"; "a savage slap"; "vicious kicks" [syn: barbarous, brutal, cruel, fell, roughshod, vicious] 2: wild and menacing; "a ferocious dog" [syn: feral] 3: without civilizing influences; "barbarian invaders"; "barbaric practices"; "a savage people"; "fighting is crude and uncivilized especially if the weapons are efficient"-Margaret Meade; "wild tribes" [syn: barbarian, barbaric, uncivilized, wild] 4: marked by extreme and violent energy; "a ferocious beating"; "fierce fighting"; "a furious battle" [syn: ferocious, fierce, furious] n 1: a member of an uncivilized people [syn: barbarian] 2: a cruelly rapacious person [syn: beast, wolf, brute, wildcat] v : criticize harshly or violently; "The press savaged the new President"
Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University
____________________________________________________
sav·age (svj)
adj.
Not domesticated or cultivated; wild: savage beasts of the jungle.
Not civilized; barbaric: a savage people.
Ferocious; fierce: in a savage temper.
Vicious or merciless; brutal: a savage attack on a political rival. See Synonyms at cruel.
Lacking polish or manners; rude.
n.
A person regarded as primitive or uncivilized.
A person regarded as brutal, fierce, or vicious.
A rude person; a boor.
tr.v. sav·aged, sav·ag·ing, sav·ag·es
To assault ferociously.
To attack without restraint or pity: The critics savaged the new play.
[Middle English sauvage, from Old French, from Late Latin salvticus, from Latin silvticus, of the woods, wild, from silva, forest.]
savage·ly adv.
savage·ness n.
Pronunciation Key
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Bam Bam: Interesting point, and probably close to the truth. I'm surprised that Fred Bear or Buck Knives didn't think of that.
Savage is a broad term and was applied to "uncivilized" non-Europeans around the globe. It's interesting that an Australian would pick a Native American for his logo. Probably figured that American rednecks would eat it up and buy three or four of his rifles.
Savage is a broad term and was applied to "uncivilized" non-Europeans around the globe. It's interesting that an Australian would pick a Native American for his logo. Probably figured that American rednecks would eat it up and buy three or four of his rifles.
MeekAndMild
New member
Well, I find it to be in good taste and quite artistic. My own Choctaw ancestors were savage fighters as were the Eurotrash ones. They would have probably bought a Savage like the 7mm magnum composite stocked one I saw on sale at Wally World for $349.
IMHO Matthew Richter would be a lot more credible if he made his pronouncement while he was driving some tribal kids to the dentist or fixing roofs and plumbing in tribal housing. Channel surfing implies he is a deadbeat with not much of a life outside his head.
BTW there is no such thing as full blooded anything.
Probably figured that American rednecks would eat it up and buy three or four of his rifles.
ATTICUS
I consider that as a personal attack....and it's damn well not appreciated. I thought you had more class.....but then , that's not the first mistake I've ever made.
Since you haven chosen to get down in the gutter with this thread I wont be back........I don't fight in gutters.
ATTICUS
I consider that as a personal attack....and it's damn well not appreciated. I thought you had more class.....but then , that's not the first mistake I've ever made.
Since you haven chosen to get down in the gutter with this thread I wont be back........I don't fight in gutters.
DorGunR: Your right and I apologize (hopefully you'll read this) however....I don't care to be called a Latte drinking, group hugging, PC, liberal, just because I choose to defend people from being called racial slurs or being unfairly stereotyped. Many people consider this topic to be trivial, but many don't. I do respect different opinions, BUT.. I'll continue to do my best to change those opinions. Time to smoke the pipe....peace that is.
Apparently there are other battles being fought as well.
Fighting Sioux Not Welcome
St. Cloud State University in Minnesota has asked the University of North Dakota to leave its "Fighting Sioux" logo at home when the men's hockey team comes to play there, reports The Associated Press.
"We don't tolerate hate speech," said Sudie Hofmann, an associate professor and chairwoman of St. Cloud State's human relations and multicultural education department, who considers the nickname and logo insulting to American Indians.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,37401,00.html
Fighting Sioux Not Welcome
St. Cloud State University in Minnesota has asked the University of North Dakota to leave its "Fighting Sioux" logo at home when the men's hockey team comes to play there, reports The Associated Press.
"We don't tolerate hate speech," said Sudie Hofmann, an associate professor and chairwoman of St. Cloud State's human relations and multicultural education department, who considers the nickname and logo insulting to American Indians.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,37401,00.html
This thread is a dead dog beaten some more, but I'll have to get this in.
I've lived in Pulaski, TN for 9 years. There was a construction company there by the name of Robert E. Bee Construction. His logo was an oval with the company name abbreviated "R.E.B Construction". It had been like that for years and years. Suddenly (I guess out of boredom) the local NAACP chapter decided that R.E.B. was short for "rebel", and meant racism, slavery, and whatever else, and HAD to be changed, or they were going to splatter Mr. Bee's name all over the newspaper and cause a big stink. And then they'd probably ask all the blacks to boycott the company. Mr. Bee changed had to change his company name to Bee Construction to make all the politically correct muscle-flexing whinos happy.
Take from this little story whatever ye may.
I've lived in Pulaski, TN for 9 years. There was a construction company there by the name of Robert E. Bee Construction. His logo was an oval with the company name abbreviated "R.E.B Construction". It had been like that for years and years. Suddenly (I guess out of boredom) the local NAACP chapter decided that R.E.B. was short for "rebel", and meant racism, slavery, and whatever else, and HAD to be changed, or they were going to splatter Mr. Bee's name all over the newspaper and cause a big stink. And then they'd probably ask all the blacks to boycott the company. Mr. Bee changed had to change his company name to Bee Construction to make all the politically correct muscle-flexing whinos happy.
Take from this little story whatever ye may.
"If you name your company "SAVAGE" and then you choose an Indian as your logo, you are calling Indians savages. Simple as that." -- Don Gwinn
No, sir...you cannot fairly reach that conclusion; nor can you insist that calling an Indian a savage was an insult.
A little more time spent studying the place of the 'noble savage' in American literature and a little less on 'cultural diversity' might be a good tradeoff.
I have the name and number of Savage Arm's company historian. I'll be calling him this evening and we'll see what the real story is. My bet is that the truth won't satisfy the PC-contingent here. Too bad...
...Zander [who loved riding that Indian cycle and chewing Red Man]
No, sir...you cannot fairly reach that conclusion; nor can you insist that calling an Indian a savage was an insult.
A little more time spent studying the place of the 'noble savage' in American literature and a little less on 'cultural diversity' might be a good tradeoff.
I have the name and number of Savage Arm's company historian. I'll be calling him this evening and we'll see what the real story is. My bet is that the truth won't satisfy the PC-contingent here. Too bad...
...Zander [who loved riding that Indian cycle and chewing Red Man]
"No, sir...you cannot fairly reach that conclusion; nor can you insist that calling an Indian a savage was an insult."
Zander: Can you offer an explanation of that comment? How is the word Savage complimentary in this example?
Would you have a problem with Lazy Boy furniture using the image of a black man (Buckwheat) on it's homepage as a logo? Or HTML on his face stating "click on the negro to go to our home page?" Would it be PC to suggest that some people might find that offensive?
I strongly agee that the "Fighting Sioux" and R.E.B. examples are complete BS. For one thing they aren't derogatory terms, and secondly the interpretations are subjective at best. That is not the case with the word Redskin, or the combined use of the word Savage with an image of an Indian brave. There is nothing offensive about the word savage, and Savage Arms should wear the name of it's founder proudly. However, associating the image of an American Indian logo, and the word Savage, is more than a little insensitive.
Zander: Can you offer an explanation of that comment? How is the word Savage complimentary in this example?
Would you have a problem with Lazy Boy furniture using the image of a black man (Buckwheat) on it's homepage as a logo? Or HTML on his face stating "click on the negro to go to our home page?" Would it be PC to suggest that some people might find that offensive?
I strongly agee that the "Fighting Sioux" and R.E.B. examples are complete BS. For one thing they aren't derogatory terms, and secondly the interpretations are subjective at best. That is not the case with the word Redskin, or the combined use of the word Savage with an image of an Indian brave. There is nothing offensive about the word savage, and Savage Arms should wear the name of it's founder proudly. However, associating the image of an American Indian logo, and the word Savage, is more than a little insensitive.
MeekAndMild
New member
I'm SURE the Savage Arms historian will gladly tell you that the Native American head logo was chosen to go along with the name "Savage". *sarcasm intended*
I'm half Navajo. My dad is full-blooded Navajo and I have many relatives living on the reservation and plan to be a Navajo Police Officer.
I find the team name "RedSkins" somewhat offensive.
If someone came up to me or my dad and referred to him or I as RedSkins, it would NOT be pretty.
So what makes anyone think that's okay for a football team?
On a side note, it's funny to see alot of people claiming Cherokee ancestors. Not saying anyone here is lying, but more often than not, when someone asks about my background and I tell them I'm half navajo, I've been told "Oh yeah! I'm part Cherokee! My grandmas uncles brothers sister in law was married to one!"
I wonder why Cherokee? Either way, seems like almost EVERY white person I've met is "part indian".
I'm half Navajo. My dad is full-blooded Navajo and I have many relatives living on the reservation and plan to be a Navajo Police Officer.
I find the team name "RedSkins" somewhat offensive.
If someone came up to me or my dad and referred to him or I as RedSkins, it would NOT be pretty.
So what makes anyone think that's okay for a football team?
On a side note, it's funny to see alot of people claiming Cherokee ancestors. Not saying anyone here is lying, but more often than not, when someone asks about my background and I tell them I'm half navajo, I've been told "Oh yeah! I'm part Cherokee! My grandmas uncles brothers sister in law was married to one!"
I wonder why Cherokee? Either way, seems like almost EVERY white person I've met is "part indian".
Mike Irwin
Staff
Good grief, this thread came back from the dead.
It probably should have stayed dead.
"I'm SURE the Savage Arms historian will gladly tell you that the Native American head logo was chosen to go along with the name "Savage". *sarcasm intended*"
Arthur Savage founded the company in 1894, when indians WERE considered savages. The use of the indian head logo dates back to at least 1899, and possibly early, when it was stamped on the buttplates of the early lever-action rifles.
"On a side note, it's funny to see alot of people claiming Cherokee ancestors."
Just a guess, but the Cherokees were one of the first tribes to Europeanize. They adopted many European modes, from dress to culture to industry before they were forcibly moved west. Part of that Europeanization was intermarrying with whites.
It probably should have stayed dead.
"I'm SURE the Savage Arms historian will gladly tell you that the Native American head logo was chosen to go along with the name "Savage". *sarcasm intended*"
Arthur Savage founded the company in 1894, when indians WERE considered savages. The use of the indian head logo dates back to at least 1899, and possibly early, when it was stamped on the buttplates of the early lever-action rifles.
"On a side note, it's funny to see alot of people claiming Cherokee ancestors."
Just a guess, but the Cherokees were one of the first tribes to Europeanize. They adopted many European modes, from dress to culture to industry before they were forcibly moved west. Part of that Europeanization was intermarrying with whites.
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