Garand Thumb - Facts and Myths

I read that one several times and am still trying to figure out how one can hit the bullet guide with a pin (pen?) from the top of the receiver. Maybe it can be done, but I don't see how hitting it would release the bolt.

Jim
 
Respectfully, the way I read the anecdote about the shop salesman performing the manual of arms, he was showing the customer it was not loaded; maybe an odd way sure, but that's what I see when I read the description. I'm not sure what the point of sticking his pen into the magazine to make the bolt slam home was supposed to illustrate; the rifle functioned as designed, so...I'm unsure of what the underlying message there is :confused:

However, I am sure that what was meant was the follower, not bullet guide
 
The light dawned after I had sent that post and logged off. I am sure he meant the follower. The condition was probably that the bolt was not fully retracted and was stopped on the slide. As I said above, that condition will almost certainly lead to "M1 thumb" or in Mr. Guffey's case, "M1 pen."

For those not familiar with the M1 rifle, the bolt does not lock back on the magazine follower or with a bolt catch like the M14 or M16. The M1 operating rod locks back because its hooks engage with hooks on the operating rod catch. This is a very secure and positive way of locking the action open, and it takes a very deliberate action to disengage the op rod catch and release the op rod and bolt. As has been said about other mechanisms, it is foolproof; it is just not damnfool proof.

Just FWIW, only those who have never been in service call it the Garand - to those who carried and used it, it was, and always will be, the M1 rifle.

Jim
 
You'll like this then Jim :)

mmmkay.jpg
 
I enlisted in the Army in the Summer of 1967, there were plenty of people who had trained on the M-1, yes, M-1 Thumb WAS a real thing.
 
And now we have the myth that the Garand was never referred to as the Garand by anyone in the military...that myth has been busted many times over, with documentation from true Garand experts refuting the "couch Ninja" experts. Saw a guy get his butt handed to him on another forum when he tried to say that the military never referred to it as the Garand.
 
Hi, Amsdorf,

I am sure some self-styled experts can claim that the M1 was called the Garand by everyone. Not so. Now in early years, even folks like Julian Hatcher called it that (and he was certainly an expert), partly to distinguish it from the Johnson. But today if I hear someone call the rifle a "Garand" I pretty well know that HE is a "mall Ninja" whose experience with the rifle is based on gunzine articles written by folks not much older.

If you want to hand me my butt and claim I am ignorant about the M1 rifle, have fun. And of course, you can also call it the "Garry", same as the folks who use silly terms like "Winnie", "Remmie", "Springer" and "Smitty". Ugh!

And just to incite further ire, the carbine was never called the M1 (that term being used for the rifle); it was always called the carbine (car' bean); it would be called the M1 carbine or M2 carbine only if there was some need to distinguish between the two.

Chris B. - Just looking at that picture gives me the willies!!

Jim
 
I started my service with an M-1 in the mid-60's and IMO, most M1 thumbs that I'd seen were awarded while proudly doing the "manual of arms", not while loading an en-bloc.

James K - I'm with you. It was always just an M-1 to us. I never even knew it was a Garand until many years later. Of course, the M-1/M-2 Carbine was just called either a Carbine or POS.:D Today, in all honestly, I do think much more highly of the Carbine than I did back then.
 
if the clip is a little weak?

can you please explain that?
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M1 clips are spring tempered. I'm assuming the poster meant if the clip itself has lost some of its spring tempering, and thus had a weaker grip on the rounds.
 
M1 clips are spring tempered. I'm assuming the poster meant if the clip itself has lost some of its spring tempering, and thus had a weaker grip on the rounds
Click to expand...

:D I understood the words when he posted them; I never finished engineering school but I took some notes ;) I'm asking him to explain his standpoint

I ask that because I have never heard of, read about, or seen reference to a weak clip spraying rounds out, reducing the clip to an empty shell, thus dropping the clip to the bottom of the mag, letting the bolt slam onto the rifleman's hand- the bottom of the stack of bullets is retained by the follower, the top of the stack of bullets is reatined by the thumb, the sides are retained by the clip and the rifle's magazine.

I ain't seeing it
 
The point re. the name "Garand" is that it is a myth that it was not used until well after the rifle was taken out of service. Further, if you are seriously suggesting that Hatcher only uses it as opposed to the Johnson, then I recommend you go back and read his book and, more importantly, the various Ordinance department documents which clearly refer to the M1 as a Garand.

Here is a thread on another forum that provides proof positive:
http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=35549

Let's put this myth to rest, shall we?

Or, on the other hand, keep arguing about this one ad naseum.

That's fun too!

:D
 
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I ask that because I have never heard of, read about, or seen reference to a weak clip spraying rounds out, reducing the clip to an empty shell, thus dropping the clip to the bottom of the mag, letting the bolt slam onto the rifleman's hand- the bottom of the stack of bullets is retained by the follower, the top of the stack of bullets is reatined by the thumb, the sides are retained by the clip and the rifle's magazine.
Click to expand...

That's not how I interpreted his statement. I was assuming that he meant (as I stated) that some of the spring temper had weakened, thus easing the grip on the cartridges contained within the clip, and letting the bolt chamber the first round with little or no effort when the loaded clip was inserted.

Although unlikely, that could theoretically catch the unwary thumb between the bolt and the receiver. ( I suppose.)
 
Thumb usually came from the gun while doing the manual of arms. And it was usually a one time thing. I never got it even once but our drill team members would, esp a 'recruit' in his first few days.

It might also happen to recruits while on the rifle range trying to load a 2 round clip for rapid fire. Anyone who had shot much didnt have a problem.

Ready on the right.......
 
I gave myself a MILD M1 thumb once, and once ONLY...I did have the op-rod held back, but it slipped. This was all preceded by the words, "Now, never ever do THIS..." passing my lips.

I wonder how many empty chamber flags have been snipped in half over the years!
 
Like kraigwy, I've never suffered M1 Thumb inflicted by a Garand, but I have managed to do it with an M14. It hurt.

We're special little snowflakes, I guess.:D
 
:) Gyvel, that's another one I never heard of, and respectfully, these days the clips should be weaker than ever but...this isn't happening
 
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