FMJ for self defense

jason_iowa said:
Nothing wrong with FMJ ammo for self defense.
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Nope, there isn't. If it's all you have or all that's legal. Of course, there being "nothing wrong" with something is not the same as "a good choice" or "the best choice."

DA/SA Fan said:
I subscribe to the Buffalo Bore Theory of self defense ammo. I put six rounds of +p+ 147 grain hollow points up top because it approaches 40 caliber numbers. I fill the rest of my 18 rounds with +p+ 124 grain FMJ-FN penetrators because if I still need to shoot after the hollow points, it's because the BG has ducked behind something and is still shooting at me.
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The problem I have with this line of thinking is that all the people who think it presume they know what will happen if they ever have to use their gun.
 
Either will work. Being ready for what you think will happen (reasonable assumption) with what will work best is just a bonus.
 
Re Frank Ettin on public forums

Respect. Thanks for enlightening me, honestly. It is a good reminder. I guess I went slightly daft for a moment. I'll make sure to keep my language good and sterile.

I am just a philosophy major and tend to over-inspect language.
 
thing is take a look at your favorite light weight expanding bullet in 38 special.

sure the 110 to 130 grain jhp can get decent numbers, look at the 130 grain fmj in 38 special. thats not an optimal round, but at least your left with the thought of
"yeah not powerful, but it will penetrate"

did the failed bank robber laying on the ground with 3 or 4 38 smith and wesson rounds in his belly feel any better then his buddy out on the street with 3 or 4 45 schofields in him?
 
I'm thinking the media got to all of you guys that think HPs are the end all in bullet manufacturing. I have some early Hps made in 38. Were not even jacketed, just a hunk of lead with a hole drilled in it :) Everyone used FMJ in the 1911's they were using, many still do to this very day.

The best round is the one gets into the bullseye, dont matter if it is hp or fmj, anything else is a miss.


And how many of you have faced someone with a gun? or got shot? really now
 
And how many of you have faced someone with a gun? or got shot? really now
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Ah yes. The "You have to eat an egg to know it's rotten." argument.

Fortunately it's not true of eggs or bullets.
 
markj said:
...The best round is the one gets into the bullseye, dont matter if it is hp or fmj, anything else is a miss...
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A red-herring. FMJ or JHP should make no meaningful difference in accuracy.

And whether you believe it or not, all the evidence points to JHPs having better overall terminal performance -- at least in anything over .38 Special.

Use what makes you happy, but I'll stick with JHPs for self defense.
 
I have read the handgun caliber and type of bullet debate ad nauseam. I would conjecture that 99% of respondents to these debates have no basis for their views other than what they have read, myself included. How many of you have shot someone? I haven't. So common sense tells me to use what LE uses. HP's. I have handguns in .45 ACP, 9MM, .38 special and .380. The first three carry HP's. My .380's alternate FMJ and HP in the magazine because I can't decide which argument is the most valid between bullet types in that cartridge.

Do I get brownie points for stating cartridge and magazine instead of clip and caliber/calibre?
 
Just me...

- 25 ACP usually FMJ
- 32 ACP usually FMJ
- 380 ACP usually FMJ
- 38 Special - usually Full Wadcutters
- 9x18 usually FMJ
- 357 Mag sometimes FMJ/hardcast - depending on application
- 9x19 sometimes - depending on application.
- 357 SIG rarely FMJ for SD
- 40 S&W - rarely FMJ for SD
- 10 mm - anything freaking bullet you want ;)
- 45 ACP - sometimes - depending on gun
 
From paladin:
"i seam to remember that HP are ilegal in new jersey, is that correct?"

Not quite. You can use them for home defense and at the shooting range. You can't use them for carry self defense. (Not that NJ issues carry permits anyway.)
 
there is no 'split the difference'

While FMJ has penetration capability, and can be lethal, it doesn't generate the immediacy of response that proper HP ammo provides.
Ay?




Talk to the 357 SIG.......
 
Based on virtually every study I've seen, stopping power of FMJ is mostly psychological. If the person is not entirely committed to a specific outcome, he is more likely to succumb. Once they're shot, it's over for them and they need medical help. On the other hand, if you hit the spine, head, or other critical area, instant incapacitation is likely. If the person has high motivation to fight (as in suicide by police or other) they may be very difficult to put down. (The .357 125gr JHP has about the highest marks I've seen for stopping power for humans, but in some cases a heavier JSP is preferred for better penetration when going up against bears or cougars.)

The soldiers I've spoken to from Iraq and Afghanistan surprised me when they've told me that they prefer the firepower and penetration of the 9mm over the older .45acp. In fact, I've heard some glowing reports on the 9mm jacketed round nose. Seems they punch right through the heavy garb and armor the enemy many times wear. Me, I have to use jacketed round nose in my little .38 S&W Model 60. It's been difficult finding .38 spc that's not +P. The gun is pretty frail, so I use jacketed round nose standard in it. I suspect it would be better than throwing rocks, but if anyone has tried +P ammo in the older 60, please let me know.
 
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Some of us old dogs were around when cops carried 38 JHP's, saw the 357 come and go and the 9mm supplant them, only to be replaced by the 40 S&W. A lot of line of duty shootings occurred over those years and while we weren't present at all of them, we paid attention to field reports from those we collectively knew and trusted.

The 38 with decent loads wasn't bad. We all expected the 357 to be Thor's hammer; but we still got reports of baddies soaking up a cylinder-full before cashing in. When I first saw the so-called 'stats' of it rating 90+% effective, I had to wonder who they were talking to. Never mind, it appears repeatedly in print and on the innernet so it must be 'fakt'. I don't consider the 9mm a bad service caliber; but with JHP its bullets are a little light for my world where stuff goes wrong all the time.

I like the 40 and I see it as an excellent balance of velocity, bullet weight and capacity. I like the fact that it shoots flatter than the 45. Yes we still find folks who soak up 40's but we usually have enough on hand to conduct business. Of course none of these are any good if not shot well... the user has to pull that load himself. And yes, even then, we had guys who thought they could buy proficiency.

Hell, if had a 14 shot duty gun in 1978 that spit 165 grain JHP's at 1100 fps--that actually expand--and nearly a box of ammo on my duty belt? I'd have called it Excalibur went looking for dragons!
 
Cold Steel said:
Me, I have to use jacketed round nose in my little .38 S&W Model 60. It's been difficult finding .38 spc that's not +P. The gun is pretty frail, so I use jacketed round nose standard in it. I suspect it would be better than throwing rocks, but if anyone has tried +P ammo in the older 60, please let me know.
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Your 60 is all steel. It'll eat your +P just fine. :confused: You probably wouldn't notice any difference in the gun if you did thousands and thousands of +P round. Even the more mechanically fragile Colt Cobras with aluminum frames would still take (IIRC) 1k +P loads before Colt recommended a gunsmith take a look at it.
 
Years ago a friend had a early Model 60 and it had a steady diet of +p ammo he did send it back to S&W to get checked and fixed. His said do not use +P. The new ones I understand are just fine with it.
I have some Federal hydroshok ammo look like a full hollow base wad cutter with a post in the middle I keep those in my snubbie.
 
"It beats a sharp stick" as my grandfather used to say. Having said that, I usually have hardball in my .32 acp Browning 1910, just because .32 hp doesnt expand all that much anyway.
 
commonsense

Well commonsense says use hollow points because the police do. well yes that is a good idea however.....


the same common sense tells the world only to use store bought ammunition when your using a particular weapon for self defense. Something to do with lawyers putting you in jail for handloading that super duper baby killer bullets in the basement.

So if logic = store bought ammuntiong for self defense
the logic dictates = any store bought ammo is fine to use.
=if you only can get fmj or lead round nose, its what you carry.
 
Ah yes. The "You have to eat an egg to know it's rotten." argument.

Fortunately it's not true of eggs or bullets.
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Well if you must know, I was shot with a HP in the left shoulder, it broke apart. They dug out the large part, the little pieces are still under the skin since it didnt penetrate further than the shoulder blade. Some times little while round things come out, inside is a piece of the bullet. A FMJ would have gone thru the bone and maybe killed me.

I use FMJ, I can show you the wound if you are that morbid.

I also have a 357 round was fired at me, the primer has a dent in it, I took the gun from him and whipped him with it, still got that round, sold the gun. Was work related injury there.

That was back in 79.

Oh, before I forget to add, my cousin Brian was shot point blank range with a 357 5 times. I saw him sunday :) he is doing fine, this is documented in previous posts and newspaper links. They used HPs too that day lucky for Brian.
 
markj said:
Well if you must know, I was shot with a HP in the left shoulder, it broke apart. They dug out the large part, the little pieces are still under the skin since it didnt penetrate further than the shoulder blade. Some times little while round things come out, inside is a piece of the bullet. A FMJ would have gone thru the bone and maybe killed me.

I use FMJ, I can show you the wound if you are that morbid.

I also have a 357 round was fired at me, the primer has a dent in it, I took the gun from him and whipped him with it, still got that round, sold the gun. Was work related injury there.

That was back in 79.

Oh, before I forget to add, my cousin Brian was shot point blank range with a 357 5 times. I saw him sunday**he is doing fine, this is documented in previous posts and newspaper links. They used HPs too that day lucky for Brian.
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How.... DARE YOU!

I will see your real world experiences and raise you an anecdotal claim as well as another blah blah study by who gives a crap of such and such fame and fortune.


For anyone still reading this thread for some reason, the correct answer is to use ammo that loads, goes bang and then travels to where you were aiming reliably.

Everything after that is a crap shoot.
 
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