FMJ for self defense
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Dragline45
New member
When I carry a .380 I keep a mag of hollow points in the gun and a spare mag of FMJ's since the .380 is right on the border of adequate penetration. Also when I woods carry I always carry the heaviest FMJ's I can.
I would in .32acp every time over a hollowpoint. Also like I mentioned when I woods carry I always choose the heaviest FMJ I can, hollowpoints are not a good choice for bear defense.
I would in .32acp every time over a hollowpoint. Also like I mentioned when I woods carry I always choose the heaviest FMJ I can, hollowpoints are not a good choice for bear defense.
Maybe not you. But if I had to use a .22, .25, or .32 auto pistol, you'd bet I'd be opting for hardball over expanding ammo. Simply not enough penetration to reliably get to the CNS, IMO. Also as I mentioned before, you get tiny expansion from those calibers certainly not enough to justify the loss in penetration, with cartridges that already use, light, slow, and low sectional density bullets. Remember with COM hits, your bullets will potentially have to penetrate hands/arms before it even gets to the rib cage, which the bullet has to also penetrate, and at the very least still needs to go through about 4'' of tissue. At this point I would also prefer my bullets to keep traveling, and have enough energy to be able to penetrate or at least break the spine, if they were to hit it, which would likely cause an instant stop.
I don't believe in that 'over penetration' hoo-hah. A miss is worse than any 'over penetrating' bullet. You need to be aware of what's behind your target, no matter your bullet type, be it HP or FMJ.
As I said before, I want exit wounds to stop the BG's that I might encounter. Anyone that might get hit by a bullet that exited would also likely get hit, if I or anyone else in a similar situation, were to miss, in a SD situation.
That being said, there are certain cartridges that simply would not be as efficient with FMJ's. Basically 9x19 and larger, which is likely why the OP specified that, in the first post.
Will Beararms
New member
There is the concern of over penetration and striking innocent victims. That's a real concern and one I am not willing to chance in a civil society. Some of you younger hands might not remember the era of the early 1990's when our politicians were working to outlaw HP ammo aka "cop killer" bullets to civvies. When that day comes, I will use the .40 or .45 exclusively.
1 -vs- 2
My advice would be to train and practice then train and practice some more. I saw a program on self defense and the instructor was overly trained. His sound advice was to throw two shots in succession at the assailant, that way you are sure he is not getting back up. Especially if there are more than one assailant, you don't have to worry about the first guy.
My advice would be to train and practice then train and practice some more. I saw a program on self defense and the instructor was overly trained. His sound advice was to throw two shots in succession at the assailant, that way you are sure he is not getting back up. Especially if there are more than one assailant, you don't have to worry about the first guy.
Model12Win
Moderator
Yah see, that's the thing right there.
Many people out there carry FMJ in calibers smaller than 9mm because round like the .25 ACP and .32 ACP usually don't have enough energy to both drive deep enough and expand worth a darn. Therefore carrying FMJs in those small calibers makes sence.
With .38 special +P on up, for personal defense against human beings there is largely no reason at all NOT to carry hollow points for defense. Those rounds have enough energy to both get to the vitals AND expand the hollow point cavity to create a larger wounds and more trauma.
So as to the OPs original quesiton, no, I don't think there is any logical reason to carry 9mm on up with ball ammo, and that includes .45 ACP. We have such good performing defensive hollow point bullets now that there is simply no need for it, and issues like overpenetration may crop up when using FMJ in these relatively powerful calibers. JMHO.
YMMV.
Exactly, but for some reason it's more of a concern to people about what happens to the few bullets that do hit, god forbid one of them passes through and hits a bystander with 10% of it's original energy. Seems extremely illogical to worry about that when a large percentage of the shots aren't even hitting the intended target, and those are far more dangerous than a 'over penetrating' bullet.
I like good quality, heavy-for-caliber JHP's in service pistols that will feed them perfectly. Sometimes this means you have to try a few different loads to find the one that feeds perfectly in your pistol. I also have no qualms about carrying FMJ or SWC loads. FMJ is my load of preference for small 380's.
I tend to agree with Pat Urey on over penetration.
I tend to agree with Pat Urey on over penetration.
Model12Win
Moderator
I carry buffalo bore hard cast 180 grain semi-wadcutter .357 magnums in my GP100 3" bbl.
I could care less about overpenetration, I want my shots to get to the vitals of the perp for a DRT.
I could care less about overpenetration, I want my shots to get to the vitals of the perp for a DRT.
We should say that FMJ is Good, JHP is better. Jeff Cooper advocate FMJ in the 45, his disciples say a 9MM may not expand but a 45 will never shrink. Some say a JHP will penetrate heavy clothing as well as an FMJ since fabric entering the cavity will cause it to act like an FMJ.
If you get lucky (or are tremendously skilled, or both) and score an instant stopping shot (central nervous system hit) then it doesn't really matter what kind of bullet you're using--FMJ might even be an advantage in that situation.
If you're relying on breaking the attacker down (damaging bones and joints), then, again, the type of bullet isn't that critical, and, if anything, the non-expanding ammo may be a better choice. Don't get the idea that this is a great strategy though. Trying to break bones and ruin joints with a handgun is a tall order.
If you're relying on blood loss for a stop, then the expanding ammo is superior--but understand that even with expanding ammo, it can take a surprisingly long time for a person to bleed out sufficiently to stop an attack. Even if a major organ or blood vessel is hit, there can be several minutes during which the attacker can wreak havoc.
If you look at the real world results of shootings, the most common stop, BY FAR, is the psychological stop. For a psychological stop to occur, it's critically important for the attacker to realize he's been shot as soon as possible and expanding ammunition is a good way to help insure that realization. FMJ is probably just as lethal as expanding ammo, but it is much more likely not make enough of an immediate impression. It may not give rapid notice to the attacker that he's now leaking, inside and out and his priorities need to change if survival is important to him.
If you're relying on breaking the attacker down (damaging bones and joints), then, again, the type of bullet isn't that critical, and, if anything, the non-expanding ammo may be a better choice. Don't get the idea that this is a great strategy though. Trying to break bones and ruin joints with a handgun is a tall order.
If you're relying on blood loss for a stop, then the expanding ammo is superior--but understand that even with expanding ammo, it can take a surprisingly long time for a person to bleed out sufficiently to stop an attack. Even if a major organ or blood vessel is hit, there can be several minutes during which the attacker can wreak havoc.
I believe that people shot with expanding ammunition are much more likely to immediately realize they've been shot. This is, in my opinion, the most important reason to use expanding ammunition in handguns for self-defense.
If you look at the real world results of shootings, the most common stop, BY FAR, is the psychological stop. For a psychological stop to occur, it's critically important for the attacker to realize he's been shot as soon as possible and expanding ammunition is a good way to help insure that realization. FMJ is probably just as lethal as expanding ammo, but it is much more likely not make enough of an immediate impression. It may not give rapid notice to the attacker that he's now leaking, inside and out and his priorities need to change if survival is important to him.
Nakanokalronin
New member
With .380 and under, I'd only use FMJ. I wouldn't hesitate to use FMJ as a defense round in 45acp, but only if no HP ammo was available.
Our tactical pistol instructor was not a fan of 40 cal in RNFP for home defense due to the number of walls that round can penetrate. I assume it's more of an issue in the lighter (155/165 gr) configurations. Of course that depends on your living situation of HD is your primary defensive situation. He wasn't against the caliber, but by implication would prefer some version of HP for defensive applications.
