finally disarmed of my ccw by cop

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tyme
Another is that if cops didn't enforce marijuana and concealed weapons laws, Coates would still be alive.
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This confuses me, I'm not sure how to respond. If Trooper Coates had stopped for a cup of coffee at the last exit, he would still be alive. If he had been anywhere else, doing anything else, he would still be alive. Performing the duties of his job did not cause his death. Blackburn caused Trooper Coates' death. Nothing else.

Blackburn did have a concealed weapon. He apparently did not have a license to carry it. I am not claiming Trooper Coates' murder has anything to do with disarming CCW holders at traffic stops. I do believe it has something to do with an officer's anxiety level during a traffic stop. That is reality, and it cannot be altered. If I can lower that anxiety a bit, I will certainly try, even if it means being disarmed.

As I stated, I do not like being disarmed, especially by an anxious LEO. I don't want to be shot with my own gun. But, what are the options as the law now reads in Louisiana?

I ask Craig again, did the LEO clear the chamber? If not, he is not qualified to disarm anyone, and he is certainly not qualified to stick the pistol back in their jacket pocket. That, and the speeding up to within feet of a traveling motorcycle really bothers me.
 
I got rear-ended recently and when the lady asked me to go to the ambulance to get checked out, I gave the highway patrolman my permit and asked if I could give him my gun for safekeeping. It was in an off-body concealment case.

He kept it and gave it back to me when I was ready to drive what was left of my car home.

But, really, to be on the safe side, when you say "only when I get really drunk" to a cop, remember to add "sir."
 
Blackburn caused Trooper Coates' death. Nothing else.
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True. Blackburn caused Trooper Coates' death because Blackburn had 1) marijuana and 2) weapons, and because Trooper Coates asked to search Blackburn's vehicle... to search for 1) drugs and 2) weapons.

Get rid of laws prohibiting 1) drugs and 2) weapons, and bad people like Blackburn will probably not murder LEOs even if they do ask to search. Also, LEOs won't put themselves in a position where their murder is likely because they won't be searching people's vehicles unless the driver is already a suspect in a particular crime.
 
This whole thread has reinforced my decision NOT to go for a CCP, CCW, CCL, ABC, CBS, XYZ or whatever it's called.

First, you're treated like a child or a moron by being forced to attend a mandatory safety class, where they tell you how dangerous guns are! Please, save the posts about always being able to learn something, I know, I know. Then they tell you how many laws there are concerning the use of your gun. Then they tell you that you had better consult a lawyer before you shoot your attacker or you will be the one going to jail.

Then, you're treated like a criminal with fingerprints and mug shot.

Then, you have the joy of having to explain your CCP every time a background check is done, i.e. new job, coaching your kids little league team (it happened to one of my kids' coach), etc.

Then, everytime a cop gets behind you in traffic, look out!

If he decides to stop you for one of a hundred different reasons, he'll run your license and KNOW you have the permit.

Then, from what I can tell from the posts, the fun will really begin!

He, or she, will treat you like a criminal, even though the most law abiding people in the country are CCP holders.

You better start babbling about where your gun is, shucking and shuffling and saying "sir" after every word.

Then this cop, who has a pistol on his hip all day and off duty, too, will treat YOUR pistol like it's a cobra ready to strike.

Then, if you're a good little boy/girl, say "sir" enough and are very polite, they might let you go with just a little hassle. As long as you recognize who's in charge!

I'm sorry, just as a cop is suspicious of everyone for his own safety, and understandably so, I am suspicious of every cop for my own self respect. I haven't gotten that many tickets in my 42 years of driving but, EVERYTIME I did, the cop was arrogant and condescending.

The concealed carry laws are just that, MORE LAWS! And the laws are designed to make most good, law abiding people decide that it just isn't worth all this demeaning hassle to have one.
 
You can't possibly think that eliminating laws that prohibit drugs and weapons will make any situation better!

If drugs were legal then drunk driving would be the least of anyone's concern. You'd have toked up people driving only the fastest speed their car is capable of, down residential neighborhoods cause they like to chase the colors.

It sounds to me that you are condoning the use of all drugs to include cocaine, speed, heroin, lsd, and any other problem drug of today. Are you saying every recovered addict who says the drug destroyed my life is just exaggerating?

And as for weapons, eliminating gun laws (the common sense ones) ensures that any felon can obtain a gun. Crime would sky rocket in every part of the country.

Blackburn shot and killed a police officer, that is an indication, nay the very definition of a remorseless killer. He obviously had no respect for the law or the individuals who inforce it and thinking he would have been all hunky dorie and friendly if he wasn't hiding anything illegal is ludicrous.

Hell, while were at it, let's get rid of laws saying you can't beat your wife. Then cops won't have to arrest the wife beaters cause they won't have to worry about stopping the incident at all. Poor poor opressed wife beaters.:mad:
 
NORMAL45 This whole thread has reinforced my decision NOT to go for a CCP, CCW, CCL, ABC, CBS, XYZ or whatever it's called.
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I'm one of the folks who agree with your opinion on the gun permit. However, if I had to carry money on my job(which I don't) or worked alot in bad neighborhoods(which I don't ) then I'd get a permit and carry a gun and put up with the added hassle the permit will cause. You have to weigh the pros and cons that's for sure.
 
Cops may get nervous about how an armed civilian might react to something so they disarm the civilian. Well, civilians may get nervous about how armed cops might react to something.

"So, officer, why don't you slowly remove your service weapon and place it out of reach on the hood of the vehicle while we proceed with this discussion.":D
 
got stopped long ago, b4 the chl even began
"my wallets in my jacket, i got no guns"
cop- if you got guns we got guns:rolleyes:
got a warning ticket....
 
First, anyone who would begrudge a LEO the need to temporarily disarm them should watch this video and return to post.
http://www.rcfop.com/index.php?modul...display&pid=60
1. Click on "Reality & In-Car Video"
2. Click on "Deadly Traffic Stop-The Shooting of Trooper Mark Coates"
3. Click on "Click Here To Watch Video"
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Okay, I watched it.

Conclusion: Never, EVER, stop to assist a down officer, unless you want your life to hang by a tiny thread while crazed officers scream profanities at you at the top of their lungs, point guns at you, handcuff you, and drag you around face down in the dirt.

Oh, sorry, that wasn't the conclusion I was supposed to come to, was it?

Blackburn did have a concealed weapon. He apparently did not have a license to carry it. I am not claiming Trooper Coates' murder has anything to do with disarming CCW holders at traffic stops. I do believe it has something to do with an officer's anxiety level during a traffic stop. That is reality, and it cannot be altered. If I can lower that anxiety a bit, I will certainly try, even if it means being disarmed.
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One thing I think every time I hear such a statement is that some people seem to have a very difficult time conceptualizing that we live in an immense country with 297 million other people, a very, very tiny percentage of whom are homocidal maniacs. If we form public policy - or even general "police perceptions" based on single pinpoint incidents, one can justify turning the US into a civilization that would be unrecognizable to our grandparents in terms of police "perogative" and freedom.

I'm old enough to remember when a "warning", such as Coates told Blackburn that he was giving him, did not include questions such as "How many years of formal education have you had?" I'm also old enough to remember when the police did not, as a routine attempt to bolster their arrests, attempt to coerce everyone they stopped into allowing a search of their vehicles -- a search which would be unconstitutional if police were not reasonably skilled at coercing the "voluntary" nullification of people's rights out of them.

Performing the duties of his job did not cause his death. Blackburn caused Trooper Coates' death. Nothing else.
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Strictly interpreted, the "duties" of a routine traffic stop are to enforce traffic regulations. It seems quite obvious that if Coates, [who had finished writing up the warning, and had Blackburn re-exit the car on the pretext of signing the warning] had simply had Blackburn sign it and wished him a pleasant evening, Coates would still be alive.

It is the acceptance, either by the police or the public or both, of the coercive "police perogative" of attempting to expand every traffic stop into a fishing expedition to enforce anti-drug and anti-weapon laws that caused Coates death, not "Blackburn" per say - although Blackburn was certainly the instrumentality.

But it is pretty poor logic when one engages in an ever-increasing spiral of diminuation of citizen's rights and increases of police powers by:
  • Establishing a policy of agressive policing,
  • known to increase the danger to officers, and
  • known to impinge the constitutional rights of citizens.
  • and then, when the POLICY leads to officer deaths
  • to use those deaths as an excuse to excuse ever more suspicious and violent enforcement of the dangerous policy

Dex
firedevil_smiley.gif
 
Okay, I watched it.

Conclusion: Never, EVER, stop to assist a down officer, unless you want your life to hang by a tiny thread while crazed officers scream profanities at you at the top of their lungs, point guns at you, handcuff you, and drag you around face down in the dirt.

Oh, sorry, that wasn't the conclusion I was supposed to come to, was it?
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I can't help but think that had the truckers been down on their knees administering CPR to the downed officer (as they should have been), instead of just standing around brandishing a handgun the response of the police arriving on the scene later would have been much different. Even if one of them did CPR while the other watched his back.
 
I had no permit so the cop didn't have any reason to ask about a gun at my traffic stop. I went along merrily about my way with no problem. The only reason I had a gun in my car was that I was going to the shooting range.

This is my point. I want to live in peace. I don't want to draw attention to myself.

A gun permit would have caused a problem where there wasn't one at that traffic stop. This was the deciding moment for my choice not to mail in my completed application for a gun permit. I only wanted to carry a gun for self-defense. I actually have no desire to lug around a heavy dangerous weapon all the time. Some people just like carrying a gun. I'm not of that ilk. I decided instead to use two non-lethal means of self defense: kubaton and pepper spray.
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If you don't want to carry, fine. That's your choice. But your argument about having a permit causing problems at a stop like this doesn't hold water. I've been stopped with firearms in cases on the seat as you describe. I said I had a permit and gave it to the officer with my DL. I told him the only weapons in the vehicle were in zippered gun cases. No problems at all.

A gun permit can get a person in trouble; you can lose the gun or you can have an accidental shooting or forget you have the gun and walk through a metal detector, etc, on and on. I want none of that. I only wanted to be able to fend off a mugger not scare a cop. In fact the kubaton with my keys on it has already deterred one nut. I can do quite a bit of damage without a gun plus I can drop my kubaton on the floor at the grocery store without creating a scene. By the way, a cop at the shooting range showed me the kubaton. Interesting little weapon it is.
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If you do these things with a firearm, you'll find yourself in less trouble if you have a permit.
 
I only wanted to carry a gun for self-defense. I actually have no desire to lug around a heavy dangerous weapon all the time.
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I only wish I could tell when I might need a weapon and when I wouldn't. I'd be somewhere else if I knew I'd need one one a given day.

A gun permit can get a person in trouble; you can lose the gun or you can have an accidental shooting or forget you have the gun and walk through a metal detector, etc, on and on.
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If that is your biggest concern, then you are right. You do not need a permit(or a gun, for that matter). You can lose your gun or have an AD at home, without a permit.

This whole thread has reinforced my decision NOT to go for a CCP, CCW, CCL, ABC, CBS, XYZ or whatever it's called.

First, you're treated like a child or a moron by being forced to attend a mandatory safety class, where they tell you how dangerous guns are! Please, save the posts about always being able to learn something, I know, I know. Then they tell you how many laws there are concerning the use of your gun. Then they tell you that you had better consult a lawyer before you shoot your attacker or you will be the one going to jail.

Then, you're treated like a criminal with fingerprints and mug shot.

Then, you have the joy of having to explain your CCP every time a background check is done, i.e. new job, coaching your kids little league team (it happened to one of my kids' coach), etc.

Then, everytime a cop gets behind you in traffic, look out!

If he decides to stop you for one of a hundred different reasons, he'll run your license and KNOW you have the permit.

Then, from what I can tell from the posts, the fun will really begin!
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Gosh, none of this has ever really happened to me. I must be sheltered.:rolleyes:
 
I live in a state that does not require a permit to carry open or concealed. However state law says you must notify LEOs you are carrying if he is acting in a official capacity. I haven't been stopped by police while carrying and have always thought of the most considerate way to handle myself during a stop. Any LEOs out there have any advice on how they would like to be treated during a stop of a armed citizen?
 
I only wish I could tell when I might need a weapon and when I wouldn't. I'd be somewhere else if I knew I'd need one one a given day.
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But there is no doubt you will routinely meet police at licence checks and traffic stops and I despise those stops. I loathe condescending arrogant pushy grandiose LEOs. I've met too many of those in my time. In terms of incidences I see more bad LEOs than I see of bad guys. I consider LEOs as big of a problem as bad guys. And yes, most LEOs are class acts but for whatever reason the few stressed out LEOs don't get weeded out fast enough. I'm just as scared of those as I am of bad guys. I'm not trying to bash all LEOs rather I'm just telling you about life in the big city. I'm well aware that the LEO that was rude to me probably had to fight his way out of a incident the day before. The reason I see more bad LEOs than bad guys is that LEOs do a good job of keeping criminals off the street. But I'm still scared of cops no matter how you spin it. Maybe it has to do with my dad being a MP in the Marines when I was a kid. Who knows? We all have a story.

Naturally anybody would prefer to have a permit and gun on them for that one in a thousand chance of bad guy attack but I just don't want anything that causes hassles with LEOs so I had to choose pepper spray and a kubaton instead of a gun permit. But even if I had a permit I still can't carry a gun when I'm working in the field but I can carry pepper spray and kubaton at work. It was a tough descision and I may reconsider as I get older.
 
"Normal45,"

You should choose a more appropriate name. What your post describes is simply not how it is in the real world of gun carry. It is just as well you don't want to put up with a lecture on gun safety.

Good luck on not "getting treated like a child or a moron." In my 49 years of getting tickets, I've found that there are more good cops than bad; but that's based on MY level of courtesy in return. Your results might be expected to be different.

I've had a CCW for years. Wouldn't give it up now. Glad I live in a county where they're available to "common people."
 
What your post describes is simply not how it is in the real world of gun carry. It i

I don't have a carry permit, so, I have no personal experience in how cops treat permit holders. I was responding to the other posts.

In Georgia, you don't need a carry permit to have a loaded pistol in the consol or glove compartment of your car. That is all I need.

"smince", You didn't have fingerprints and mug shot done? You didn't have to attend a "safety" course that covered the legal caveats of shooting an attacker? You have never had a background check done? I guess you have lived a sheltered life!

And, most cops might be nice guys in person, but the ones I've met in their official capacity, were, on balance, arrogant jerks. I wasn't a difficult person, actually curteous, didn't even act irritated. I just don't believe it's necessary to start scraping and bowing and saying "sir" like a Marine Boot!
 
ya know, it sounds like there are two types of cops involved in traffic stops of CCW holders: those who shrug and go "yeah, you got a gun. So do i. No big deal" and those who freak and risk everybody trying to secure a weapon they know nothing about. Maybe we should all ollow this procedure:

1)stop vehicle
2)get paperwork handy
3)pull and unload cary piece(s)
4)place unloaded gun(s) on roof of car
5)hold paperwork out window, with right hand on wheel of car

I'm being sarcastic here, BTW...
 
Sounds to me like he did everything perfectly. And actually, I see your post as nothing but silly because even though you were given a break for violating the law, you still have to trash talk someone who risks his life to help others.

Perhaps you should wear your helmet and the incident wouldn't have taken place?

And yes, as a matter of policy and safety, giving it to you in pieces is the right thing to do.

He wasn't being a hot dog, he was doing his job. Its posts like this that make me wonder if I should ever give someone a break. Its people who get breaks that are always upset about getting pulled over, people who get a ticket go about their business.:rolleyes:

Normal45, the last thing I want is people to call me "sir" or anything else. I really could care less what people call me actually. However, I was raised by my parents to always call people "sir" or "ma'am" and my department standards require the same. You can watch my traffic stop videos and hear me say "Sir calm down" when people are cussing me out. Its great in court.

And, the funny part, every officer I know agrees with me that people should carry guns and we love the 2nd amendment. We also wish it was quicker to get a GA firearms permit. Maybe its just GA that has this outlook, but I've met plenty of officers from around the country that share the same beliefs..
 
you guys still aint listening!

the only thing that got me pod is the way he ran up on me.
he was goin so fast he has to skid his tires to keep from hitting me, and came very close!
it didnt bother me at all that my gun was taken and disassembled.
" " i was stopped for a helmet.

he hot dogged it up on my a$$ like he was gonna run me down.
for a biker, any car that does that is enough to piss off the pope.......
 
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