Fighting dirty?
- Thread starter irish52084
- Start date
Daugherty16
New member
Fighting is a last resort; just like pulling a gun.
However, when it is time to fight, or pull the gun, you must be first on the draw.
As a kid, in the schoolyard, there was "reputation" to think of. In an assault, there is only survival to consider. There are no rules except blitzkreig.
I'm older, a little heavier, and not as strong as i used to be, but i can still grapple someone and strike them in the adams apple two or three times, a several nasty uppercuts to the chin and nose, locked thumb gouged into an eye - all this in a furious flurry of about 2 seconds or less. Then destroy their knee or break down an elbow or distend the shoulder joint as i'm spinning away. Then i'm running away, as fast as my carcass can wobble down the street.
People don't keep fighting when they:
a) cant breathe
b) can't see
c) cant stand up
d) can't feel their arm
e) are in excruciating pain (not always, but it definitely detracts from their concentration).
In a multiple attacker situation, you have to do this to the biggest toughest guy there - and fast - and you're still probably gonna get a bad beating. But maybe not. If you've just destroyed the "leader" in a mere couple of seconds, the next one may hesitate to jump in.
I'm thinking seriously about buying a cane - that has a 1 million volt stun gun built in. There are distinct advantages to carrying a striking weapon, especially one that has the ability to incapacitate an attacker. Either that or a sjambok - a very useful piece of plastic. The south African riot squads used them to great effect in the past. Of course theirs were rhino skin, but the plastic ones are pretty devastating too. Check them out.
http://www.donrearic.com/mightysjambok.html
However, when it is time to fight, or pull the gun, you must be first on the draw.
As a kid, in the schoolyard, there was "reputation" to think of. In an assault, there is only survival to consider. There are no rules except blitzkreig.
I'm older, a little heavier, and not as strong as i used to be, but i can still grapple someone and strike them in the adams apple two or three times, a several nasty uppercuts to the chin and nose, locked thumb gouged into an eye - all this in a furious flurry of about 2 seconds or less. Then destroy their knee or break down an elbow or distend the shoulder joint as i'm spinning away. Then i'm running away, as fast as my carcass can wobble down the street.
People don't keep fighting when they:
a) cant breathe
b) can't see
c) cant stand up
d) can't feel their arm
e) are in excruciating pain (not always, but it definitely detracts from their concentration).
In a multiple attacker situation, you have to do this to the biggest toughest guy there - and fast - and you're still probably gonna get a bad beating. But maybe not. If you've just destroyed the "leader" in a mere couple of seconds, the next one may hesitate to jump in.
I'm thinking seriously about buying a cane - that has a 1 million volt stun gun built in. There are distinct advantages to carrying a striking weapon, especially one that has the ability to incapacitate an attacker. Either that or a sjambok - a very useful piece of plastic. The south African riot squads used them to great effect in the past. Of course theirs were rhino skin, but the plastic ones are pretty devastating too. Check them out.
http://www.donrearic.com/mightysjambok.html
irish52084
New member
It's good to hear everyone's wiling to do what's necessary to survive.
I've always been a big guy and physically imposing, but I'm not an aggressive or confrontational person. I have rarely had people mess with me or want any sort of altercation, especially since I was about 14 and I really grew into my body. I was 6' and 200 lbs by 14 and had been grappling with adults since 11, so I got pretty strong pretty quick and I leaned how to get beat about 100 times over. lol That was a great lesson in humility and just how bad of an idea it is to fight unless you absolutely have to.
I'm growing more and more fond of getting some more serious training with a knife. I carry one most of the time anyway and my basic knife training could use some serious sharpening. See what I did there?
I've always been a big guy and physically imposing, but I'm not an aggressive or confrontational person. I have rarely had people mess with me or want any sort of altercation, especially since I was about 14 and I really grew into my body. I was 6' and 200 lbs by 14 and had been grappling with adults since 11, so I got pretty strong pretty quick and I leaned how to get beat about 100 times over. lol That was a great lesson in humility and just how bad of an idea it is to fight unless you absolutely have to.
I'm growing more and more fond of getting some more serious training with a knife. I carry one most of the time anyway and my basic knife training could use some serious sharpening. See what I did there?
My father told me when I was a teen, never get into a fight with someone over the age of 50. At that age, you have nothing to loose. A guy 50+ will do anything to win. Anything. Groin shots, gouge eyes, pull hair, scratch, bite, you name it they will do it and do it quickly. I have always remembered that, and now that I’m over 50, I realize my father was right. The only fair fight is the one you win. Not that I’m looking for a fight, because pain hurts. But if I had no choice, no chance to flee, and was convinced my life was in danger, I’d do anything to survive.
BS! 62 and disabled - but it ain't gonna be a 'fair fight' - I will be fighting to save my life - there will be no 'rules'!! I have been fortunate enough to have had a background of both street brawls as a youth and formal defensive/offensive training later. There are lots of ways to take the 'fight' outta someone with minimal effort. I suggest some training (it can be done even if creaky and disabled - trust me). Maybe some krav maga (we never had a name for it, it was just eye gougin, ear peelin, finger breakin, etc.).
"If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck." — John Steinbeck
and the general consensus is:
1. Don't mess with the older guys, they don't have enough energy left to fight you. They will just shoot you.
2. Watch out for the younger guys, they bite
Plain and simple in a street fight/ assault situation, first thoughts should be to disable your opponent. Striking joints to make them bend in directions that they are not supposed to is a great tactic. When someones knee bends left or right, when it is supposed to be forward/backward puts them on the ground, no matter how much adrenaline they have. As for kicking someone while they are one the ground, in most states that goes beyond the use of justified force for self defense. At that point you should be retreating and calling LE for backup. If the assailant gets up and comes to assault you again you should already be condition 1 and draw down while the police are en-route. Showing a little restraint will keep you from being charged with assault in a self defense situation.
1. Don't mess with the older guys, they don't have enough energy left to fight you. They will just shoot you.
2. Watch out for the younger guys, they bite
Plain and simple in a street fight/ assault situation, first thoughts should be to disable your opponent. Striking joints to make them bend in directions that they are not supposed to is a great tactic. When someones knee bends left or right, when it is supposed to be forward/backward puts them on the ground, no matter how much adrenaline they have. As for kicking someone while they are one the ground, in most states that goes beyond the use of justified force for self defense. At that point you should be retreating and calling LE for backup. If the assailant gets up and comes to assault you again you should already be condition 1 and draw down while the police are en-route. Showing a little restraint will keep you from being charged with assault in a self defense situation.
Fighting in the street is not a game. For me it is an attack that is likely to take my life so guess what?
I cannot imagine why I would get in a "street fight." Even in my youth I never thought I was tough, and never saw any reason to prove I wasn't. A lot of young guys have to learn that the hard way or by "The schools of hard knocks."
By staying away from bars and tough areas I never had a single fight. How do some of you get in them and where do they happen?
Regards,
Jerry
I cannot imagine why I would get in a "street fight." Even in my youth I never thought I was tough, and never saw any reason to prove I wasn't. A lot of young guys have to learn that the hard way or by "The schools of hard knocks."
By staying away from bars and tough areas I never had a single fight. How do some of you get in them and where do they happen?
Regards,
Jerry
Wrong place, wrong time?
Someone mentioned that staying fit and learning basic self-defense would put you above 90% of would-be assailants (not sure what exactly the user stated, but you get the gist).
I'd have to disagree, at least a little. I took Muay Thai and BJJ for 4 years and honestly some of the guys in the gym weren't very good people. With the popularization of MMA, more and more people are learning to fight, even if for the wrong reasons. That's why I say to win at all costs -- within reasonable self-defense parameters, of course. No one wants to die or be put in a coma. I'm sure we all agree on that.
Someone mentioned that staying fit and learning basic self-defense would put you above 90% of would-be assailants (not sure what exactly the user stated, but you get the gist).
I'd have to disagree, at least a little. I took Muay Thai and BJJ for 4 years and honestly some of the guys in the gym weren't very good people. With the popularization of MMA, more and more people are learning to fight, even if for the wrong reasons. That's why I say to win at all costs -- within reasonable self-defense parameters, of course. No one wants to die or be put in a coma. I'm sure we all agree on that.
JerryM,
Last physical altercation I thought I would be in, that did not involve a bar, involved a man assaulting a woman outside the downtown Federal building. I parked the car at the first safe spot and sprinted over... it only took seconds to find somewhere to put the car, but the guy had run off. I tried to talk to the woman, see if she was ok, asked her if she needed a ride to the local PD, or a shelter, when the guy came back.
Turned out to be her husband.
Thought I was going to be in a big fight, in the middle of a domestic dispute, right in front of the Federal building. You'd be amazed how many people had just walked on by (most appeared to be attorneys; business suits and attaché cases).
I remember thinking, "She's going to stab me in the back if I hit him..." when she very quietly said, "it's ok, I'm just going to go with him."
Point is, I wasn't at a bar; I wasn't anyplace one would expect a problem. In fact, I was there for an appointment with the Navy officer recruiting office.
But it almost was a fight, and it wasn't much fun wondering if either of them had a knife, and how things might go. (I was unarmed, of course, heading to a government office place.)
Edit: Modify that statement. I've talked down a couple of drunks, while I was on active duty, in situations that could have gone south. One of the guys had assaulted some enlisted personnel; the other ended up assaulting a Chief later that night. I got a chewing out by my Senior Chief, though - he pointed out that if either the sailor or the Marine had swung at me, they'd have been in huge trouble for assaulting an officer. Better to let the NCO's handle things. (Both the guys involved in the separate incidents were drunk; I was at work.)
Last physical altercation I thought I would be in, that did not involve a bar, involved a man assaulting a woman outside the downtown Federal building. I parked the car at the first safe spot and sprinted over... it only took seconds to find somewhere to put the car, but the guy had run off. I tried to talk to the woman, see if she was ok, asked her if she needed a ride to the local PD, or a shelter, when the guy came back.
Turned out to be her husband.
Thought I was going to be in a big fight, in the middle of a domestic dispute, right in front of the Federal building. You'd be amazed how many people had just walked on by (most appeared to be attorneys; business suits and attaché cases).
I remember thinking, "She's going to stab me in the back if I hit him..." when she very quietly said, "it's ok, I'm just going to go with him."
Point is, I wasn't at a bar; I wasn't anyplace one would expect a problem. In fact, I was there for an appointment with the Navy officer recruiting office.
But it almost was a fight, and it wasn't much fun wondering if either of them had a knife, and how things might go. (I was unarmed, of course, heading to a government office place.)
Edit: Modify that statement. I've talked down a couple of drunks, while I was on active duty, in situations that could have gone south. One of the guys had assaulted some enlisted personnel; the other ended up assaulting a Chief later that night. I got a chewing out by my Senior Chief, though - he pointed out that if either the sailor or the Marine had swung at me, they'd have been in huge trouble for assaulting an officer. Better to let the NCO's handle things. (Both the guys involved in the separate incidents were drunk; I was at work.)
I will use what ever is at my disposal to match the level of the threat. perhaps even escalate a little bit. I will not lose a fight if I can help it. And my firearm is there as a last resort.
I will, however, avoid a fight with all I've got first. I do not desire to be in a fight, but if it is inevitable, I'm not going down if I can help it.
Remember, the only unfair fight is the one you lose
I will, however, avoid a fight with all I've got first. I do not desire to be in a fight, but if it is inevitable, I'm not going down if I can help it.
Remember, the only unfair fight is the one you lose
moose_nukelz
New member
Do what you can to defuse the situation. If that fails use violence of action to get the job done quickly so you can break away and call law enforcement.
Edward429451
Moderator
What a refreshing thread! Not much debate here, is there? I feel surrounded by true Americans right now.
Alls fair in Love and War. War's on the street, Exhibition Matches are in a ring.
Alls fair in Love and War. War's on the street, Exhibition Matches are in a ring.
LockedBreech
New member
Just another voice in the choir.
I will apologize, digress, avert my eyes, keep my voice low, and do everything possible to avoid any conflict. As holder of a lethal weapon, this is an absolutely necessary responsibility.
However...once battle is joined, there are no depths I will not stoop too, and no viciousness I will not unleash on my opponents to neutralize a threat to myself and others.
No fairness. No apology. Eyes, teeth, groin, throat. Fingernails, kneecaps, elbows, toes.
I will apologize, digress, avert my eyes, keep my voice low, and do everything possible to avoid any conflict. As holder of a lethal weapon, this is an absolutely necessary responsibility.
However...once battle is joined, there are no depths I will not stoop too, and no viciousness I will not unleash on my opponents to neutralize a threat to myself and others.
No fairness. No apology. Eyes, teeth, groin, throat. Fingernails, kneecaps, elbows, toes.
MikeNice81
New member
"If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying hard enough."
The only rule in a street fight is to stay alive at all cost.
The only rule in a street fight is to stay alive at all cost.
SocialAnarchist
Moderator
I am 52 years old and have used this line plenty of times to explain my attitude about fighting anymore.
If I am involved in a fight now, it isn't because someone said my wife is fat or my car isn't cool. It is because I am fighting to save my life or the life of a loved one. I may not win but my oponent will be blind or ball-less when we are done. Fight dirty? Is there any other way when your life is on the line?
The best answer is situational awareness, avoid confrontation unless it simply is not possible. But if a fight breaks out use whatever means available to make sure you win, once your opponent is down, LEAVE the area and call the police.
I have what I think is a funny story about the last bar fight I avoided about 20 years ago. I was sitting in a bar just having a beer and talking when some obnoxious **** started arguing and trying to **** people off. I said calm down and have a beer. His reaction was let's go, right now, outside. I looked him right in the eye and said okay, but keep this in mind, if we fight, one of us is going to die and I don't care which one. He cocked his head and said what does that mean. I said it means I will fight you, but I don't give a **** if I kill you or you kill me, but one of us is going to die. He stepped back looking really puzzled and said never mind and walked away. Stupid bravado on my part but it did eliminate the threat!
If I am involved in a fight now, it isn't because someone said my wife is fat or my car isn't cool. It is because I am fighting to save my life or the life of a loved one. I may not win but my oponent will be blind or ball-less when we are done. Fight dirty? Is there any other way when your life is on the line?
The best answer is situational awareness, avoid confrontation unless it simply is not possible. But if a fight breaks out use whatever means available to make sure you win, once your opponent is down, LEAVE the area and call the police.
I have what I think is a funny story about the last bar fight I avoided about 20 years ago. I was sitting in a bar just having a beer and talking when some obnoxious **** started arguing and trying to **** people off. I said calm down and have a beer. His reaction was let's go, right now, outside. I looked him right in the eye and said okay, but keep this in mind, if we fight, one of us is going to die and I don't care which one. He cocked his head and said what does that mean. I said it means I will fight you, but I don't give a **** if I kill you or you kill me, but one of us is going to die. He stepped back looking really puzzled and said never mind and walked away. Stupid bravado on my part but it did eliminate the threat!
So long as my life is under direct and immediate threat (or that of my loved ones) and the intent and ability of cause grevious bodily harm or death is clear then there is no such thing as dirty fighting.
I will use any amount of force necessary to stop the threat, any techniques and weapons and whatever so long as I deem it necessary and the least amount of force necessary to bring the attack to a stop.
When its your life there is no such thing as honorable fighting.. An old unattributed chinese say goes: When two tigers fight one will get mauled, the other will die...
I will use any amount of force necessary to stop the threat, any techniques and weapons and whatever so long as I deem it necessary and the least amount of force necessary to bring the attack to a stop.
When its your life there is no such thing as honorable fighting.. An old unattributed chinese say goes: When two tigers fight one will get mauled, the other will die...
You can usually find out who the loser was when you figure out who did not get bad enough, . . . fast enough.
At 66, . . . heart condition, . . . one bad shoulder, hip, and knee, . . . I'll probably get .45 caliber bad just as quickly as I can get to it.
I'm not taking a whoopin' from some smart alek 1/2 or 1/3 my age just so he can get my billfold or brag to his buddies. I break to easily, and it takes far too long to mend.
May God bless,
Dwight
At 66, . . . heart condition, . . . one bad shoulder, hip, and knee, . . . I'll probably get .45 caliber bad just as quickly as I can get to it.
I'm not taking a whoopin' from some smart alek 1/2 or 1/3 my age just so he can get my billfold or brag to his buddies. I break to easily, and it takes far too long to mend.
May God bless,
Dwight