Federal 30S Super carry, new cartridge

HO HUM Another cartridge that won't do anything better than the 1000 other calibers out there........Probably be extinct 2 years. Remember the 9mm Federal. The 45 GAP. There is NOTHING NEW under the sun.........The old Torkarev cartridge has same specs. and it's 100 years old.
 
The Happy kaboomer said:
HO HUM Another cartridge that won't do anything better than the 1000 other calibers out there........Probably be extinct 2 years. Remember the 9mm Federal. The 45 GAP. There is NOTHING NEW under the sun.........The old Torkarev cartridge has same specs. and it's 100 years old.
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Disagree.

It's the same length as a 9mm Para.

So, if it facilitates a thinner, smaller "Nano" sized pistol, w/ the capacity of a dbl-stack Micro, and has the performance of a 9mm/115 gr. std. pressure?

Sounds like a useful and marketable round to me.




Red
 
Ballistics match my favorite 32 magnum handloads. Should make a nice round without the ear splitting scream of the 327 Federal. Not sure it's needed but it should be nice in an ultra compact as a 32 ACP magnum class cartridge factory loaded to levels that the 32 magnum never was.
 
Still isn't going to be successful for very obvious reason no one will address.

An LCP is a lock breech gun. The only 9mm that is the size of the LCP is the Diamondback DB9 and it doesn't work.

So an M&P Shield Plus or EZ 30S is already both larger than a Sig P365 isn't going to make me go buy the the new round. I bought the P365 since it's the smallest double stack 9mm.

Federal is also cherry picking specs here. They show it against the HST 124gr. Well HST comes in HST Micro 150gr, HST 147 or 147 +P, and HST 124gr +P.

HST Micro and 147 beat almost all the 357mag hollow point loads for expansion and penetration on the equal media gel test they have online. Micro is pretty light for shooting at 900FPS but expands and penetrates as one of the best 9mm loads today.

So it's not me ignoring the qualities of the 30S or specs, it's that people are ignoring Federal says guns will be slimmer and Federal isn't testing all HST 9mm they offer against their round.

If you like the specs of 30S, great. But you can't ignore there are two more common HST 9mm loads (HST 124gr +p and 147gr) than the HST 124gr Federal tested against it.

Sig would have to completely redesign the P365 to make it smaller than the P365. Is that going to happen? Probably not since the P365 is the highest selling gun right now.
 
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Personally I'm kind of excited about it, not sure why but I think it has to do with the universal fact that nothing much gets released anymore that isn't a friggin' 9mm and I don't really have a use for 9mm, I shoot mostly .40 and .45. Sadly companies like Springfield, Sig Sauer and to an extent Glock don't really seem to want to offer their newest micro compact high capacity wonder guns in anything other than 9mm, even though .40 could and would work just fine in them, where are the guns?

The 30 Super Carry is kind of refreshing, it's not a 9mm! Is it as effective as 9mm? Well does it have to be? Higher capacity and probably slightly less recoil are traits that people are going to like. It's going to be pricier for sure, but no everyone is scared away by price of ammo. Ballistics seem to be adequate and it's a .312" and I've never owned a 32 caliber anything.

What's funny in a way is watching 9mm guys say the 30 SC isn't as effective or powerful as 9mm and that less recoil and more capacity are somehow negligible benefits, but in return most of them have no issue claiming their 9mm is every bit as effective as .40 or .45. If quick follow up shots and better capacity make a caliber better than another, like what 9mm guys think vs .40/.45, then I hate to break it them that the 30 Super Carry looks poised to be even better.
 
oh, i say 9mm hst does better than the others all the time. Including 10mm. Using Vista's own data.

I am also the only one in here that has so far pointed out Federal stated guns could be slimmer in 30S but Federal clearly shows 3 guns that are not slimmer than the 9mm and unless someone makes a gun on a .380 frame, who cares.
 
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Federal's website:
30S priced at 36.99 for a box of 20.


Vista Outdoors sets 9mm Gold Dot and HST at $40 for their 50rnd LE box to consumers and $20 for government LE.

Hm...
 
Yeh, I think 327 would also be more popular if it was priced according to the materials used rather than volume. The 30sc is going to fail because it's not priced to be competitive with 9 like 40 was. Fiven 30SC the same price as 9, I would think it would sell OK. Doubler the price, most people will pass in favor of 9 or 380.
 
It's the same length as a 9mm Para.
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The cartridge case is actually a little longer with the 30SC.

I think it's a mistake to compare it to 9mm. This round is less powerful but with less recoil meaning more control. I'll take control over power any day.

The timing also couldn't be worse with the ammo shortage and all. If Federal were smart they would be trying to sell it super cheap, even at a loss to get people hooked on it.
 
wild cat mccane said:
Still isn't going to be successful for very obvious reason no one will address.

An LCP is a lock breech gun. The only 9mm that is the size of the LCP is the Diamondback DB9 and it doesn't work.

So an M&P Shield Plus or EZ 30S is already both larger than a Sig P365 isn't going to make me go buy the the new round. I bought the P365 since it's the smallest double stack 9mm.

Federal is also cherry picking specs here. They show it against the HST 124gr. Well HST comes in HST Micro 150gr, HST 147 or 147 +P, and HST 124gr +P.

HST Micro and 147 beat almost all the 357mag hollow point loads for expansion and penetration on the equal media gel test they have online. Micro is pretty light for shooting at 900FPS but expands and penetrates as one of the best 9mm loads today.

So it's not me ignoring the qualities of the 30S or specs, it's that people are ignoring Federal says guns will be slimmer and Federal isn't testing all HST 9mm they offer against their round.

If you like the specs of 30S, great. But you can't ignore there are two more common HST 9mm loads (HST 124gr +p and 147gr) than the HST 124gr Federal tested against it.

Sig would have to completely redesign the P365 to make it smaller than the P365. Is that going to happen? Probably not since the P365 is the highest selling gun right now.
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I don't think anyone is looking at this .30 Super and expecting it to exceed the 9mm, that's not the point. The point is more rounds in the mag and not failing to meet FBI specs in gel.

I don't care for what it is going to cost and the limited ammo and gun options, but if someone wants the extra capacity an see is willing to pay, whatever, their choice.
 
rc said:
Yeh, I think 327 would also be more popular if it was priced according to the materials used rather than volume. The 30sc is going to fail because it's not priced to be competitive with 9 like 40 was. Fiven 30SC the same price as 9, I would think it would sell OK. Doubler the price, most people will pass in favor of 9 or 380.
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.327's issue is there isn't enough variety in ammo or availability. Price isn't the issue, it costs the same as .357 does and .32 Long is only a couple bucks more a box vs 38.

The price of .30 Super is what will cause it to fail, that there is no doubt. Will cost as much or more than .357 Sig and 5.7x28
 
No one is saying choice is bad. Heck, 10mm still exists for no obvious reason when every single factory load is basically the exact same bullet and speed by manufactures 40 loads.

I mean to say, if you aren't going to buy it, why is anyone else? So for, no good reasons.
 
I still carry .327 Federal on a regular basis. I really like the six-shot pocket revolver as a platform. The difference between 5 and 6, at greater than 9mm power levels with less than .357 magnum recoil has been "just right" for me.

I've long been interested in a semi-auto equivalent. Providing it comes in a compact semi-auto that mirrors the quality and ingenuity of the LCR; this could be a thing. (Wanting that in DA/SA is probably asking too much...)
 
TruthTellers said:
I don't think anyone is looking at this .30 Super and expecting it to exceed the 9mm, that's not the point. The point is more rounds in the mag and not failing to meet FBI specs in gel.

I don't care for what it is going to cost and the limited ammo and gun options, but if someone wants the extra capacity an see is willing to pay, whatever, their choice.
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What’s the capacity of the guns that are being introduced?
 
As far as carry guns, back in the 1930s the 32ACP and 380 ACP were available in what was essentially the same gun (Colt Pocket Hammerless). The 32 ACP lost, people didn't consider it a viable round. Lots of cheap 32s sold, but they were mainly marketed to people who couldn't afford a 38. Yes, lots of cheap 38s were sold as well, but that's not the point. People didn't think the 32 was much of anything for self-defense. Would it work? Sure, especially in the days before trauma ERs and good antibiotics. Was it ideal? No, people thought it was a pipsqueak, half the energy of the 380 in a gun that cost about as much.

Fast forward to the 1980s. 32 S&W Long got a power boost to 32 H&R. The gun-buying public pretty much said "so what". Same for the 327 Federal.

I think the public's reaction to the 30 Super Carry will be the same. But it will generate fans, just probably not enough to make it a real viable production round.

I think people don't appreciate the potential of a 32.
 
reddog81 said:
What’s the capacity of the guns that are being introduced?
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Nighthawk is 10. Not sure how much was there previously.

S&W added 2 to both Shield Plus and the EZ. Although obviously one cannot cram 2 more rounds that are 11% thinner into an 8-round magazine of EZ, so they added a baseplate extension.
 
I totally understand your logic.

32acp was popular as it and 9mm came out about the same time. Then 9mm wiped it out. Here, 9mm was an advancement and won the day. Concealed carry didn't exist in the US, then it did and enter the P32 and P3AT. Bye went the 32 acp. 45acp and 40 gained traction, but 9mm came back to win the race once again with Gold Dot, XTP, and HST equaling results of the others without the negatives of either. All .380, 9mm, 40, and 45 FMJ fall within the same penetration spread, so it wasn't FMJ.

So, by this logic, it's possible for a smaller quality HST round to win based on merits. I got it.

Here's where this fails though. Federal says it is not for government or law enforcement. It's for the US concealed carry market. Ok. So scratch all government, police, and military contracts. So the tiny success of 45 GAP and 357 Sig isn't going to be the same for 30S. That's trouble.

Well, the LCP is the number 1 concealed carry gun in the US. Size.
The P365 almost killed the competition immediately to the point that all manufacturers dropped their prices by $100 just to get people to buy their Shield, PPS, LC9, G2, and even the G43. There is a rumored story of Taurus going into a free fall for sells in the US that the company was not looking good for revenue. That's even with the G2/G3 popularity. Enter the under $200 dollar days of the G2.

So. If 30S doesn't come in a smaller LCP sized gun or a thinner than P365 option, it can still be a good advancement, but totally flop.

I haven't even mentioned the 30S currently is listed at 357mag ammo level pricing. Current 357mag pricing could spell doom for 357 revolvers too. We shall see.
 
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