Federal 30S Super carry, new cartridge

I think the only other pistol cartridge I'm aware of that runs at 50,000 PSI is the 9x23, one of my all-time favorite rounds.

That said, lighting one off at night or without ear protection can be a life-altering experience, and you have to tweak a 1911 to run it without beating itself to death, so I'm curious how a small gun like this will be sprung and locked to deal with that.

Larry
 
Another way to look at "What is the problem with 50 k psi?"

How do you feel about +P++ ammo? Why not just run 9mm and 380 and 38 Super up to 50K?

Common American centerfire rifles operated at roughly high 30 k to 40 k psi..from the stronger single shots and lever actions to the Krag,etc.

They worked. But are they suitable for 50-60 k+ psi 308.243,etc? Not a good idea.
And blowback is out of the question...unless you want a 5 lb slide. (Shoot a Win 401 SL sometime! Enlightening! Its blowback. The forend is hollow,as it houses the massive bolt. Recoil is out of proportion to the cartridge)

It CAN be done, but it likely takes rethinking semi-auto pistol design. IMO, there is a tradeoff in gun bulk and weight that leads to diminishing returns when increasing pressure.
 
I think the only other pistol cartridge I'm aware of that runs at 50,000 PSI is the 9x23, one of my all-time favorite rounds.
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While they didn't survive as comercial successes, both the .44 and .357 Auto Mag Pistol rounds are 50k+ psi rounds.

Brass is made from cutting and forming .308 Win rifle cases, and the Auto Mag pistol uses a multiple lug rotating bolt lock up that is actually more massive than the bolt used in an AR 15.

If thinking in metrics makes it easier for you, the .357 AMP becomes the 9x33mm, its a bottle necked case with the standard .473 (.308 win) case head size, and can throw the 100gr bullet over 2000fps from a pistol length barrel.

Its also too large and powerful to use in any of the standard duty class semi autos currently available.

I see the .30S Super as a one trick pony, and that one trick, (round count) isn't all that impressive to me. A 100gr slug at 1200fps?? Yawn....9mm Luger can do that.

To me, getting an extra round or two into the gun isn't a vital thing. going to an entirely new cartridge in order to do that isn't worth my time or $.
 
Notes:

356 TSW pressure = 50,000 psi

9X23 Winchester pressure = 55,000 psi

327 Federal Magnum = 45,000 psi

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I don't think there will be a pressure issue with the thickness of the barrel chamber for the 30 Super.

Using a M&P barrel as an example, the outside width is .600". with a 9mm chamber the wall thickness is .100". with a .30 Super wall thickness is about 1.125".

That's pretty thick when you consider that the chamber wall on my 357 Magnum J-frame is .052". The chamber wall on my 6-shot S&W Model 27 (N-frame) is .117".

The chamber wall thickness of my Ruger SP101 327 Federal is .085".
 
"Offers nothing over the 9mm. Little faster, but less bullet weight, so basically reinventing the wheel."

For a whole two extra cartridges.

Yeah, I'm not seeing it, either.

But, then again, it's a .32...

So I'm interested...

Damn my infatuation with the polite bore!
 
I don't think there will be a pressure issue with the thickness of the barrel chamber for the 30 Super.
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I agree with you that barrel wall thickness is not likely an issue.

I suspect the outside dimensions of the barrel would be the same as a 9 mm. If so,the barrel steel would get thicker.

Blowing up barrels is not likely to be the concern. Elevated pressures mean higher loads on locking surfaces. Higher slide velocities. Increased loads on the interface between polymer frame and the critical steel inserts the slide runs on.

If its not an issue,why does S+W approve of some +P loads in the owners manual and recommend against others?

My understanding is the Shield was designed from the get-go for 40 S+W.
And,the case head area will be greater at the breech face. Area matters when translating PSI into mechanical load.

I don't doubt the Shield can handle it if S+W says it can. But a jump from 35,000 to 50,000 IS worthy of some raised eyebrows.
 
44 AMP said:
While they didn't survive as comercial successes, both the .44 and .357 Auto Mag Pistol rounds are 50k+ psi rounds.

Brass is made from cutting and forming .308 Win rifle cases, and the Auto Mag pistol uses a multiple lug rotating bolt lock up that is actually more massive than the bolt used in an AR 15.

If thinking in metrics makes it easier for you, the .357 AMP becomes the 9x33mm, its a bottle necked case with the standard .473 (.308 win) case head size, and can throw the 100gr bullet over 2000fps from a pistol length barrel.

Its also too large and powerful to use in any of the standard duty class semi autos currently available.

I see the .30S Super as a one trick pony, and that one trick, (round count) isn't all that impressive to me. A 100gr slug at 1200fps?? Yawn....9mm Luger can do that.

To me, getting an extra round or two into the gun isn't a vital thing. going to an entirely new cartridge in order to do that isn't worth my time or $.
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I have my 124g 9mm running around 1200fps out of a 4in barrel. I feel like they are under rating 9mm...
 
It would be cool if an "ambassador" to Federal wasn't required to have either sleeve tattoos, plaid shirts, baseball hat, beard, or some combo of all.

Kinda made me think of the 22 TCM that is basically a zombie cartridge right now.
 
Also, what happens to the P365, the number 1 concealed carry gun?

Does it get smaller, add two rounds, and/or both?

Is that going to make me drop 9mm?

What about the number two concealed carry gun, the LCP?

Does an LCP gun owner want slightly bigger for the same round capacity?



Hm...I bet not, even if you were buying new today...
 
Another answer to a question no one is asking.
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Women….remember them….I have 2 daughters who might ccw if 22LR were a viable round. Since it is not, they don’t. 9mm is ok, but still pretty hot for those with a weaker grip that want a compact. Maybe this??

We’re not the target market for the Shield EZ either, but it sells like hotcakes!
 
But have they shot 100gr Critical Defense Lite?

Or frangible for range shooting?


Great job Federal. Call the cartridge a name of a Glock handgun "30s."

They didn't show how much smaller/slimmer those 3 guns are vs the 9mm. So kinda makes you think it's either not much or at all. Kinda doubt an M&P 30S is a different grip/slide thickness than the current M&P grip. Specially since there are cutouts on the Nighthawk...
 
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One thing to consider may be those parts of the world where 9mm is not allowed for civilians. In which case the comparison should be with .380.
 
jackstrawIII said:
Only way this is going to work is if federal has been secretly manufacturing a few hundred million rounds to flood the market with. If nobody can buy 9mm ammo, but can buy this new stuff… maybe they’ll sell a few guns to go with it to new gun owners who don’t know any better.

I appreciate their effort and willingness to try… but I certainly don’t think the masses are going to turn in their Glock 19s anytime soon.
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It's not going to happen immediately and it seems that with handgun calibers it takes a great deal of time for them to get established in the market. By that I mean look at how long it has taken 10mm to get to where it is now. Heck, even .380 was basically a forgotten caliber of the early 20th Century until Kel Tec and Ruger threw it in the micro pocket pistols.

This .30 Super tho isn't going to be a big animal caliber like 10mm is or for pocket pistols like the .380s are, this is directly competing with 9mm and when the ammo for .30 Super is always going to cost nearly double than what 9mm does, few are going to willingly pay more for a less available caliber.

Further, the entire point of .32 calibers isn't to be as powerful as the 9mm or .38/.357, it's to offer less recoil, yet still achieve the minimum required to be effective for self defense. This .30 Super is likely going to have the same recoil and ballistics as 9mm, just with a mag that holds 2 more rounds.

IMO, not worth it, but apparently what the market is demanding for handguns is higher capacities in slimmer pistols.
 
44 AMP said:
:eek:
If its running at rifle pressures, none of the standard duty class pistol will handle it, and I shudder to think about compacts...:rolleyes:
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5.7x28 is 50k PSI as well and the Ruger and FN's have no issue with it, but they were purpose built for the chambering.

I'm not too worried about it, this is 50k PSI with a 100 or 115gr bullet, not a 9mm +P+ trying to launch a 147gr at over 40k PSI.
 
So, I took a look at the linked video, as far as the case drawing, which I found interesting.

and it also explains to a degree why it needs high pressure to deliver what I consider adequate but not outstanding results.

First, the COAL of the round, is the same as the 9mm Luger, !.169" The drawing shows a very tapered bullet with a very large flat point at the max length. Clearly this length was chosen to fit in 9mm frame size guns.

Otherwise, the case is straight with a slight taper, and approximately .30 cal, so smaller in diameter than 9mm or any of the other common larger caliber rounds. And, while the case is 0.07" longer than the 9mm Luger, its also about the same amount shorter than the .38 Super or the .45ACP.

And, as to women or smaller individuals shooting it from compact guns (assuming there are compacts to handle the pressures) NOTHING pushing a 100gr bullet at 1200fps is "light recoil" or pleasant to shoot from a compact size pistol. Not a 9mm or a .30 or anything, that's just a matter of basic mass and energy.

So I feel marketing claims about how the smaller bore size round would benefit women etc, I think that's just market hype.

I think that if a 1200fps 100gr 9mm is a vicious little beast in a compact gun, a .30 cal shooting the same weight bullet at the same speed will be, as well.
Putting a lot of lead in the air often wins in military combat but self defense shooting is a different matter, and while only hits count and only good hits matter, the civilian is legally responsible for ever round they fire. And that includes what and who ever gets hit.

If the round is a snappy little beast many people simply won't practice, and if you don't practice, you don't get good and real world shootings show that even good shots often aren't such good shots when faced with a life or death situation.

All in all, I'm going to pass on this new "wonder round" and just wonder...why??

(other than the profit motive, of course...)
 
44 AMP said:
And, as to women or smaller individuals shooting it from compact guns (assuming there are compacts to handle the pressures) NOTHING pushing a 100gr bullet at 1200fps is "light recoil" or pleasant to shoot from a compact size pistol. Not a 9mm or a .30 or anything, that's just a matter of basic mass and energy.
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I would agree.

I would try this if I had the opportunity. It's far too early in its market presence for me to consider buying it.
 
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