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facing a violent mob when carrying, milwaukee state fair...
- Thread starter chack
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Best option: Don't go to the fair.
Runner-up: RUN! Get your family and get out or hide.
I hate to say it but I can see why firearms are not permitted in some areas like this from a logical standpoint.
This mob hospitalized 7 people? Now what would have happened if one of the victims had been carrying a Glock? Very likely several dead. Possible including the shooter if he ran out of bullets.
IMHO of course.
Runner-up: RUN! Get your family and get out or hide.
I hate to say it but I can see why firearms are not permitted in some areas like this from a logical standpoint.
This mob hospitalized 7 people? Now what would have happened if one of the victims had been carrying a Glock? Very likely several dead. Possible including the shooter if he ran out of bullets.
IMHO of course.
That's not necessarily a bad thing.Very likely several dead.
I have trouble understanding when taking life is a good thing.That's not necessarily a bad thing.
Necessary? Perhaps. Good? No.
I have trouble understanding when taking life is a good thing.
Necessary? Perhaps. Good? No.
Ted Bundy and Osama Bin Laden are examples of good dead people. Those bent on harming my family qualify as well.
Feeling good that a thug will never harm another innocent is not wrong IMO.
stephen426
New member
While it may be the "most logical", avoiding places I used to go to as a kid to have fun due to the possibilty of "something happening" just disgusts me. We are basically giving up our freedoms and rights to thugs and criminals. Does it mean I want to get into violent altercations and possibly have to shoot someone (or get shot)? Heck no!
I refuse to live life like a hermit and hole myself up for fear of the boogie man. I would guess most of us on here are like that since we decide to excercise our right to carry. When and if trouble does arise, we are the ones, we are prepared to deal with it.
Let me add something here... An employee of mine was at the movie theater in a busy shopping center here in Miami. A bunch of rowdy punks kept hicking his chair. He turned around and asked them to stop. I wasn't there so I'm not sure if more words were exchanged, but my employee and his brother were attacked by this band of punks and stabbed multiple times. They are lucky they survived. His brother had a collapsed lung. Do I avoid the theaters as a result of this incident? No. I make sure I carry and I try to avoid problems as much as possible!
I refuse to live life like a hermit and hole myself up for fear of the boogie man. I would guess most of us on here are like that since we decide to excercise our right to carry. When and if trouble does arise, we are the ones, we are prepared to deal with it.
Let me add something here... An employee of mine was at the movie theater in a busy shopping center here in Miami. A bunch of rowdy punks kept hicking his chair. He turned around and asked them to stop. I wasn't there so I'm not sure if more words were exchanged, but my employee and his brother were attacked by this band of punks and stabbed multiple times. They are lucky they survived. His brother had a collapsed lung. Do I avoid the theaters as a result of this incident? No. I make sure I carry and I try to avoid problems as much as possible!
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I don't avoid the fair solely because of the thuggery. I can't legally carry there. I won't go into a higher than normal danger zone unarmed on purpose, ever.
I'm sure that sometime or somewhere in the past you have changed your plans due to the high potential of something happening. If you haven't you will eventually.
I once left a fishing spot because I felt I was about to be robbed. I was armed and onto the ploy yet decided to leave before it materialized. To this day I will never go there to fish because of the potential for trouble. I would like to just say the heck with it and go but it just isn't worth the risk no matter the fun.
Why subject yourself to the danger to make a point?
I'm sure that sometime or somewhere in the past you have changed your plans due to the high potential of something happening. If you haven't you will eventually.
I once left a fishing spot because I felt I was about to be robbed. I was armed and onto the ploy yet decided to leave before it materialized. To this day I will never go there to fish because of the potential for trouble. I would like to just say the heck with it and go but it just isn't worth the risk no matter the fun.
Why subject yourself to the danger to make a point?
OldMarksman
Staff
Good thinking.Posted by threegun: I don't avoid the fair solely because of the thuggery. I can't legally carry there. I won't go into a higher than normal danger zone unarmed on purpose, ever.
I'm sure that sometime or somewhere in the past you have changed your plans due to the high potential of something happening. If you haven't you will eventually.
I once left a fishing spot because I felt I was about to be robbed. I was armed and onto the ploy yet decided to leave before it materialized. To this day I will never go there to fish because of the potential for trouble. I would like to just say the heck with it and go but it just isn't worth the risk no matter the fun.
Why subject yourself to the danger to make a point??
GSW's to the head from rifles have been known to cause extreme carnage and gore. See the JFK assassination. I listened to one interview with Massad Ayoob where the guy he was intervieweing stated that after he had placed two shots of 5.56 into the head of a badguy that "everything from the ears back was gone".
I don't understand this question. There are too many scenarios listed that do not all lead to the same focal point. All of us should first try to calmly make it out of the area and get police there as fast as possible. Every other option is a case of that not working. The Iowa state fair has been mentioned related to a similar incident last year. I believe the state and local police have addressed this with multiple times the presence of last year. I do not get the mentality of many of the posters. Evidently very few of you have experienced a mob situation or trained for one at all. Mobs and riots are strange animals that take on a life seperate from that of their individual constituents. The only way to solve these situations after they start are for the emergency response teams to engage them with a level of resistence/control/ firepower that they cannot hope to compete with.
I don't avoid the fair solely because of the thuggery. I can't legally carry there. I won't go into a higher than normal danger zone unarmed on purpose, ever.
Well said.
Keep an eye out people. Often well publicized events like this will spur other copy cats. In NC you can protect yourself or another with deadly force, but you realistically can't carry concealed just about anywhere this sort of thing can occur. Paid events, events of assembly (broadly defined) and all the other usual banned areas. Our state legislature is hopefully loosening up some of those definitions as we speak. Funny thing about NC law is where you can't carry concealed, often you can open carry. Few obviously do that anymore and its complicated so it's mute. Scary stuff out there people.
redlinesrule
Inactive
Very easy choice for me as it would be, without a doubt; > If attacked do you defend yourself and your family (with lethal force if necessary)?
A story today on Yahoo about mob violence
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/philade...inst-youth-mobs-132925775.html?bouchon=602,il
It's interesting that they highlight the difference between violence in the U.S. and violence in the U.K now.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/philade...inst-youth-mobs-132925775.html?bouchon=602,il
It's interesting that they highlight the difference between violence in the U.S. and violence in the U.K now.
While I can understand the resentment and anger we all feel at seeing this sort of thing, I can't understand what you're saying.I can't wait for an armed citizen to shoot or split the belly of one of these idiots.
Imagine if your best friend's kid got caught up in that mob. Maybe he didn't know what his friends had planned. Maybe he wasn't even with them, but was just dressed in a similar manner. Then someone shot him.
Heck, even if he was part of the whole thing, think how that would feel. Now, he's crippled, or dead, and his parents wondering why breaking some stuff and punching someone merits that sort of fate.
Would you still make a statement like that?
I'm really surprised to see 20% of the respondents who would refuse to defend themselves if attacked.
On a side note, similar mob attacks and riots are occurring in other cities in several other cities , especially Philidelphia and Chicago. There is a great deal of discussion on the different firearms forums about "situational awareness". A key to being able to avoid a confrontation that might lead to injury is to be aware of a threat before it develops the critical mass of a mob mentality.
IMO part of that awareness is watching as crowds develop. Anytime I'm in public and I see a group of individuals with unique identifiable characteristics congregating I classify them by whether or not I perceive them as likely to be a threat, neutral, or protector. I base that perception on the groups activities and identifiable characteristics.
If I see a crowd of girl scouts selling cookies (nuetral) I'll react differently than a group of teenage males conducting open air drug sales (threat). If I see a group of RUBs (Rich Urban Bikers) I would perceive them to be neutral if I'm on foot but potential protectors if I am on my bike. The same situation with 1%ers makes them neutral if I'm on foot and a potential threat if I'm on my bike (I ride a 600cc yamaha and some of those guys tend to look down on us rice burners).
The point behind all this is that situational awareness requires you being aware of whether or not your appearance is going to make you a target by whichever group of na'er do wells is in the process of gathering for a mob/riot.
Are you wearing a lakers jersey on the night they beat the Bulls in a big game? That could be a big problem if you are in chicago.
Are you wearing a color associated with a particular gang in an area with gang activity. that is something you should be aware of if you see a group of young men wearing the same color.
Are you a sikh who wears traditional garb on the night of a major terrorist attack? If you aren't aware of the heightened threat to your safety due to general ignorance you are at much greater risk than your brother who chose to leave his turban at home that day or avoid an area where there has been a rash of hate crimes by individuals that share certain identifiable charachteristics.
Profiling potential adversaries is part of situational awareness
On a side note, similar mob attacks and riots are occurring in other cities in several other cities , especially Philidelphia and Chicago. There is a great deal of discussion on the different firearms forums about "situational awareness". A key to being able to avoid a confrontation that might lead to injury is to be aware of a threat before it develops the critical mass of a mob mentality.
IMO part of that awareness is watching as crowds develop. Anytime I'm in public and I see a group of individuals with unique identifiable characteristics congregating I classify them by whether or not I perceive them as likely to be a threat, neutral, or protector. I base that perception on the groups activities and identifiable characteristics.
If I see a crowd of girl scouts selling cookies (nuetral) I'll react differently than a group of teenage males conducting open air drug sales (threat). If I see a group of RUBs (Rich Urban Bikers) I would perceive them to be neutral if I'm on foot but potential protectors if I am on my bike. The same situation with 1%ers makes them neutral if I'm on foot and a potential threat if I'm on my bike (I ride a 600cc yamaha and some of those guys tend to look down on us rice burners).
The point behind all this is that situational awareness requires you being aware of whether or not your appearance is going to make you a target by whichever group of na'er do wells is in the process of gathering for a mob/riot.
Are you wearing a lakers jersey on the night they beat the Bulls in a big game? That could be a big problem if you are in chicago.
Are you wearing a color associated with a particular gang in an area with gang activity. that is something you should be aware of if you see a group of young men wearing the same color.
Are you a sikh who wears traditional garb on the night of a major terrorist attack? If you aren't aware of the heightened threat to your safety due to general ignorance you are at much greater risk than your brother who chose to leave his turban at home that day or avoid an area where there has been a rash of hate crimes by individuals that share certain identifiable charachteristics.
Profiling potential adversaries is part of situational awareness
I don't see anyone saying that. I do see some folks saying that they would try to get away rather than trying to take down a mob with a handgun, but that's not saying that they wouldn't defend themselves as much as it's saying that they believe that firing a few shots into a mob would be ineffective or even counterproductive.I'm really surprised to see 20% of the respondents who would refuse to defend themselves if attacked.
No, a group of teenage males conducting open air drug sales may be breaking the law, but that doesn't automatically make them a threat. It might make them a POTENTIAL threat--something worth keeping an eye on--but that's a very different thing than saying they are actually a threat....a group of teenage males conducting open air drug sales (threat).
Sure it is, as long as you don't take it to an extreme like you did in your example above.Profiling potential adversaries is part of situational awareness
A profile may tell you someone is potentially a threat or that they may be more likely to be a threat, but you can't decide someone IS a threat simply because of what they look like or what they're wearing or driving.
My surprise was that only 81% said they'd defend themselves. The poll was written so that multible answers could be selected.
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you John, but it seems like your trying really hard not to agree with me. I do, however disagree with this:
I think anyone that thinks a group of young men selling drugs in the open isn't a threat has a radically different idea of security and personal safety than I do. The link between open air drug sales and violence is so obvious and well documented that I can't imagine why you even went there.
I just wanted to make the point with this thread that the BEST way to deal with a violent mob/riot is not to be there, and the best way not to be there is to identify factors that make such a thing more likely so you can avoid the area.
I don't feel comfortable with crowds in general, I'm a country boy and big cities and tall buildings make me nervous. A city boy might feel nervous in the woods and be worried about wild animals, I worry about two legged animals in the city because mobs and riots are historically much more likely to occur in urban areas.
By the same token, bear and cougar attacks are much more likely to occur in the wilderness, and some types of bears are much more likely to attack humans than others.
I just think that the key to personal safety is knowing what the potential threat is that you are likely to face and exhibiting behavior that takes your surroundings and the threats in your environment into account.
chack said:Anytime I'm in public and I see a group of individuals with unique identifiable characteristics congregating I classify them by whether or not I perceive them as likely to be a threat, neutral, or protector.
I'm not trying to pick a fight with you John, but it seems like your trying really hard not to agree with me. I do, however disagree with this:
No, a group of teenage males conducting open air drug sales may be breaking the law, but that doesn't automatically make them a threat. It might make them a POTENTIAL threat--something worth keeping an eye on--but that's a very different thing than saying they are actually a threat.
I think anyone that thinks a group of young men selling drugs in the open isn't a threat has a radically different idea of security and personal safety than I do. The link between open air drug sales and violence is so obvious and well documented that I can't imagine why you even went there.
I just wanted to make the point with this thread that the BEST way to deal with a violent mob/riot is not to be there, and the best way not to be there is to identify factors that make such a thing more likely so you can avoid the area.
I don't feel comfortable with crowds in general, I'm a country boy and big cities and tall buildings make me nervous. A city boy might feel nervous in the woods and be worried about wild animals, I worry about two legged animals in the city because mobs and riots are historically much more likely to occur in urban areas.
By the same token, bear and cougar attacks are much more likely to occur in the wilderness, and some types of bears are much more likely to attack humans than others.
I just think that the key to personal safety is knowing what the potential threat is that you are likely to face and exhibiting behavior that takes your surroundings and the threats in your environment into account.
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