facing a violent mob when carrying, milwaukee state fair...

What is the best strategy to deal with an unarmed mob like the milwaukee state fair?

  • Do you run and hide/escape and hope that you can find a place where you can be secure?

    Votes: 17 15.9%

  • Do you go to the assistance of a victim and attempt to stop the attack?

    Votes: 13 12.1%

  • Do you draw your weapon without pointing it at anyone?

    Votes: 4 3.7%

  • Do you calmly make your way out of the park and hope you aren't attacked?

    Votes: 26 24.3%

  • If attacked do you defend yourself and your family (with lethal force if necessary)?

    Votes: 93 86.9%

  • Do you take the beating and hope they don't kick you in the head too much and take your gun?

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Would your decision be affected if your race was the same as the mob or the victims?

    Votes: 4 3.7%

  • I don't think it happened, this thread is racist, and should be locked.

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Total voters
    107
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if I was with my pregnant wife and two very young children

which is probable, I would draw my weapon if approached in a menacing way by this mob. I'm basically cutting thru the bull with this thread or I should say I am getting to the point:

I know that is a worst case scenario for me, as I do not want to have to do that. However, these mobs can be extremely dangerous while others think they're 'fun'. If I had to draw I would, and I would only shoot if I had to. There were people willing to engage the crowd in some form or another to help, but one situation can be manageable while another 10yards away can end up deadly in a mob situation. Please google riverwest mob too: the article mentions the mob from june or july in WI as well
 
Ichaban

Didn't find the answer I wanted so I voted "run & hide."


IMHO the best strategy (if available) would be to retreat to a defensible position away from the mob and wait for the police. If they do come after you then you are in fear of your life/welfare and/or the lives/welfare of any accompanying loved ones. That is my tipping point for using deadly force. Maybe the sound of gunfire will get the cops there sooner.
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the problem is many times when people run or hide they 1)panic, 2)get chased, and/or 3) hide or end up in an area with less exposure which inturn ups the ante if they are then confronted(a more isolated area as an example).
 
Ringolevio: You are correct that concealed firearms are banned from these type of events in some states.

I find it interesting there was no mention that any of the seven injured police officers felt compelled to shoot someone.
 
Lesson One: Don't go to a state fair on a night that you might reasonably expect a higher likelihood of this sort of issue.

If I'm at a county or state fair, I'm with family, so that places some limits on my range of options. I will not - cannot - abandon my family to a mob to help out another victim. If I was alone, knowing myself, I probably would go to a victim's aid if there was even the slightest chance of rendering effective assistance.

If attacked, I WILL be in fear for my life and will defend myself with all vigor, using any and all tools at my disposal.

This commentary is from a columnist who just happened upon the scene and got clocked in the face for his troubles:

All my wife and I could feel was sadness.

...I know I can't relate to whatever it is that incited and enraged those kids. But our conversation on the way home was that we wished we could have taken the kid who hit me home with us and shown him care, concern and support.

Here we are, living in the same city . . . . but a world apart.
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"All we are saaaaaaying, is give peace a chance"

http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/126956088.html
 
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@Mr James
Amen. As for that columnist, his house would have been robbed if he took that disadvantaged youth home with him. These scumbags deserve no sympathy.
 
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It's frightening ....

This thing does seem to be more and more common. Iowa state Fair is coming up and a similar thing happened last year. Racially motivated attacks.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6f4_1282757964

I believe you are not allowed to be armed at the fair here in Iowa so pretty much defenseless in a situatio like this. I may be skipping the fair this year.
 
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You can't shoot a mob and expect to come out alive. Most of us only have a couple magazines or speed loaders when we conceal carry and then you are done. Seek refuge in the best defensive position you can find, escape if you can. Trying to shoot hundreds of rampaging people in a mob is a lose, lose situation for sure that is likely to only enrage them further.
 
Sad state of affairs that these things should continue to happen.... Where are the police?
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Police cannot be everywhere. So the better question is where are the legally armed civilians?

You can't shoot a mob and expect to come out alive. Most of us only have a couple magazines or speed loaders when we conceal carry and then you are done. Seek refuge in the best defensive position you can find, escape if you can. Trying to shoot hundreds of rampaging people in a mob is a lose, lose situation for sure that is likely to only enrage them further.
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Especially for the first 20 or so mob members.


I don't care about race or how hard the the poor bad guys had it growing up. I don't care if they are hating the color of my skin as they are attempting to injure me. What I do care about is not being injured and my family the same. I think slipping out or hiding would be ideal. If you are targeted fight and retreat if possible.

I don't go to the Florida State Fair for this reason. Plus it is illegal to go armed as it is considered a place of nuisance.
 
What i would do isnt on the poll.

I would run like a bat out of hell and hope nobody follows me. I would hate to have to shoot my pistol because of the attention it would bring to myself. That would be the last thing i would want, but i would if i had to....really really bad place to be :(
 
I wouldn't give a mob of vandals much credit for any sort of consistent motivation. They were awful children inflicting violence because they find it fun. There are many factors at work, and if we could get to the bottom of it, we'd likely find that racial differences played less of a role than free-floating aggression and poor parental guidance.

...I know I can't relate to whatever it is that incited and enraged those kids. But our conversation on the way home was that we wished we could have taken the kid who hit me home with us and shown him care, concern and support.

Here we are, living in the same city . . . . but a world apart.
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I actually think that's a fairly healthy reaction. Maybe a bit thick on the sentimentality, but it's a better reaction than hatred or stereotyping.

Back to the original point of the thread: I would fire if I had no other option, but until that point, I would not draw or display my sidearm. If I'm up against a group that's already taken on an animalistic mob mentality, the display of a firearm might incite them to greater violence. I doubt it would dissuade them. Mobs are funny that way.

A few months back, there was a flash-mob attack on a MARTA train in Atlanta, and we had a similar discussion. In that case (a closed subway car), I posited that there was really no safe and effective way to utilize a firearm without risking the lives of bystanders. This is a bit different.

At an outdoor venue, I have the option to retreat. In this case, the use of a firearm might help expediate that process.
 
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I would like to thank the admins and mods of The Firing Line for not having closed this thread. Not all forums are equally courageous.
 
As liberal as Az. gun laws are, we cannot carry @ the state fair. There are gangs everywhere there.
I do not go there.


On shooting, I would think that you would draw too much attention to yourself. If you did shoot someone, what about over penetration & hitting an innocent?
 
hmmm...

I read that on a road exiting the fair there was a group numbering in the hundreds stopping cars and trying to gain access to the occupied vehicles and running on top of the vehicles stomping on them while also beating a minor in the street. If this was me, and there was an open lane of traffic, id probably try to build up as much speed as possible and get in the oncoming lane which was surely vacant if this road was taking cars out of the fair. Best case scenario, they move and I drive out. Worst case scenario, I run over a few "speed bumps" on the way out..... and I promise you I wouldnt lose a wink of sleep. Anyone that acts like that deserves whatever they've got coming. I guess if I hit enough of them I might wreck and then I'd be screwed, but I promise you I'm not going out without taking a few with me. My Glock holds 15+1 rounds of .40. Thats more than enough to make a dent.
 
This is the "TACTICS and TRAINING" forum, not the "Solve the Racial Problems of America" forum.

I've deleted and edited a lot of posts on this thread so it can remain open for discussions about TACTICS and TRAINING relating to the original post.

Commentary on racism, reverse racism, speculation about racial issues as a motivation (sufficient, insufficient or superficial) for mob violence, etc. are off topic.
 
Would head-shots perhaps be better if you must fire on an angry mob, since they might not even notice a few of their buddies going down, but splattering blood and brains and gore ought to give them something to think about?

I know you normally shoot COM because it makes a better target, but this isn't a normal situation.
 
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