Documents forged? content 100% accurate

Status
Not open for further replies.
Okay, this should be fun! :D

" A retired Alabama Air National Guard officer said Friday that he remembers George W. Bush showing up for duty in Alabama in 1972, reading safety magazines and flight manuals in an office as he performed his weekend obligations.

"I saw him each drill period," retired Lt. Col. John "Bill" Calhoun said in a telephone interview with The Associated Press from Daytona Beach, Fla., where he is preparing to watch this weekend's big NASCAR race.

"He was very aggressive about doing his duty there. He never complained about it. ... He was very dedicated to what he was doing in the Guard. He showed up on time and he left at the end of the day."

Calhoun, whose name was supplied to the AP by a Republican close to Bush, is the first member of the 187th Tactical Reconnaissance Group to recall Bush distinctly at the Alabama base in the period of 1972-1973. He was the unit's flight safety officer.

The 69-year-old president of an Atlanta insulation company said Bush showed up for work at Dannelly Air National Guard Base for drills on at least six occasions. Bush and Calhoun had both been trained as fighter pilots, and Calhoun said the two would swap "war stories" and even eat lunch together on base.

Calhoun is named in 187th unit rosters obtained by the AP as serving under the deputy commander of operations plans. Bush was in Alabama on non-flying status.

"He sat in my office most of the time -- he would read," Calhoun said. "He had your training manuals from your aircraft he was flying. He'd study those some. He'd read safety magazines, which is a common thing for pilots."

Full story.



Well, that was so much fun, I think we need a bit more!


How about some payroll records?

(Sorry - this one is a scanned image - can't cut and paste for you.)


Wait a minute! Then how come his commander doesn't remember ever seeing him?

Because he doesn't even remember being there himself some days. He's in the early stages of Alzheimers.

On Feburary 4, 2004 Turnipseed told NBC News, NBC News: "I don't know if [Bush] showed up, I don't know if he didn't. I don't remember how often I was even at the base."
 
Last edited:
" There's no such thing as a CO."

Really? My wife will be shocked to hear that since she currently is the Commanding Officer of a reserve unit.
Typical. Take it out of context, then act like it means what you want it to mean. There's no such thing as "personal" or "private" journals relating to work when you are a CO.
and the unsnswered question: why haven't the repubs trotted out all those pilots who adored Mr Bush?
No, the unanswered question is, "Why are the Democrats and leftists are making a big deal of Bush's service when Bush is not?" This is a non-issue and has been a non-issue since the 2000 elections.
 
Destructo6
.... There's no such thing as "personal" or "private" journals relating to work when you are a CO.

Really? Does this apply to all ranks and positions in the service or just COs? Is this something COs are forbidden to do? Or is it an "ethics" issue by which they all abide?
 
Or is it an "ethics" issue by which they all abide?
It's more of a common sense issue. Obviously I haven't heard of every event that has ever taken place in all of military history, but I must say that I also have never heard of a military member keeping notes that would be useful for no other purpose than to damn him or her at his or her court martial. Nor have I ever heard of a military member producing such a document to his or her court martial as evidence of his or her own dereliction of duty/incompetence/stupidity/etc...

Military officers of any consequence are for the most part able to put 2 + 2 together and get 4. As a general rule one does not become a Lt. Colonel by being wholly inept. No court martial that I have ever heard of would find the various and sundry snivelings that were purported to be contained within the "originals" - that supposedly were completely destroyed by fire in the Kinko's parking lot - to be anything but a slam-dunk for conviction.

Sniveling gets people like Rather everywhere in the liberal pond-scum circles he travels in. Sniveling - and writing the snivels down in a way that would be damning - in the military would get one a trip to Ft. Leavenworth. Not a good prospect.
No, the unanswered question is, "Why are the Democrats and leftists are making a big deal of Bush's service when Bush is not?"
And the answer is that when they traded in the mental patient Dean for "Hanoi" John Kerry, they got a pig in a poke. And now that every shot by the SwiftVets hits below horse-face's waterline, they are getting even more desperate and pathetic.

They are a real hoot when they panic. :D Keep on keepin' on I say! Dopes.
 
Fred Hansen
It's more of a common sense issue. Obviously I haven't heard of every event that has ever taken place in all of military history, but I must say that I also have never heard of a military member keeping notes that would be useful for no other purpose than to damn him or her at his or her court martial. Nor have I ever heard of a military member producing such a document to his or her court martial as evidence of his or her own dereliction of duty/incompetence/stupidity/etc... (ETC)

I knew of quite a few military members who kept notes - and sometimes documented in other forms. Destructo6 seems to think they do not exist.

But you missed the point here. On the ladder of upper level politics (and we can safely say that the Bush family has been there since the time of Prescott) a Lt. Col. is not only just another pion; if he crosses swords with someone in those circles and tries to make it an issue, he or she is going to very likely be the loser. One way or the other. Yes, and anyone smart enough to make Lt. Col. is likely to know that. I've even met some old Majors who might have known that too. So I can well imagine a person in that position doing so as a last resort.
 
Last edited:
Please tell me that 20 years from now when I'm in a wheelchair at the nursing home that the Leftists will not STILL be sqawking about something which did not happen.

If the the struggle is all that desparate that you have to forge documents in order to get it in front of the people, might I suggest directing your energys towards building up your own candidate. He REALLY needs help!

Especially crawling on the ground with a shotgun trying to bag a deer :eek:

This tread has more liberal twists and turns than the Burma road.
 
So I can well imagine a person in that position doing so as a last resort.
The whole point is that those "documents" wouldn't be of any use even as a last resort. Except perhaps to be the final nail in a coffin the Lt. Col. would have built for himself. Why is that so difficult to understand?

Oh, sorry, for a moment there I forgot who I was talking to. Carry on. :rolleyes:
 
Difficult to understand due to their inability to correctly utilize the Scientific Method. These guys start out with an erroneous conclusion, twist facts to fit it, invent 'facts' to fill the gaps and discard true facts that defy twisting and/or don't support their preconcieved outcome.

It is the type of thing that the Communists used to do...'Comrade, we have suspicion, based on these anonymous,forged reports, that you have violated State security. We want you to sign this confession admitting your complicity in this matter and give us details regarding these allegations. If you do this, you will receive a fair trial before you are shot.

Whatta crock!
 
So far, all we have is innuendo and wild speculations. This is apparently what passes for proof to democrats nowadays. Killian's secretary (A DEMOCRAT) says that the content is correct is supposed to be proof?

I've yet to see any proof that isn't either hearsay or some speculation with NO DOCUMENTABLE evidence.
 
I've yet to see any proof that isn't either hearsay or some speculation with NO DOCUMENTABLE evidence.


That's because the DOCUMENTS were released months ago, and show that he was there when he said he was.

Now where's the fun in that?


:D
 
Fred Hansen,

I have not read the alleged content of the notes, nor can we be assured assured that they represent all the paper he may have compiled over the matter. As a last resort they would (if I were in his position), represent who, what, why, when, and how - with particular reference to any pressure or threats against me for taking appropriate action.

I only mentioned this as a general point. I see the Bush Kerry nonsense as a bunch of WWF. It would not surprize me whether the subject issue was completely false - or completely true either way.
 
Quartus,

I did see the portion exhibited where questions were raised concerning some of the fonts used etc. But see my first post, then second paragraph of my last post. I only commented over the issue of notes, keep a journal over the issue, etc.
 
Just to lighten the mood a bit.....

As I am sure all are now aware.......
From the Houston Chronicle, by Michael Hedges
WASHINGTON - Bill Burkett …possible CBS source for disputed memos about President Bush's Guard service, has a long history of making charges against Bush and the Texas National Guard.
Burkett's allegations have changed over the years, and have been dismissed as baseless by former Guard colleagues, state legislators and others.
Even Burkett has admitted some of his allegations are false.

Burkett wrote a long indictment against Bush for a Web site in 2003 in which he said he personally was ordered to "alter personnel records of George W. Bush." In that article, Burkett said that when he refused he was sent to Panama as punishment, where he contracted a disabling disease.
But when asked about that charge by the Houston Chronicle in February, Burkett said, "That statement was not accurate, that is overstated."

In February, Burkett said he witnessed documents from Bush's records in a garbage can at a Guard base in Austin.
"My eyes fixed on the first page," he said in an interview in February. "It had Bush, George W. Lt1. What I did next still bothers me. I browsed through the top five or six pages."

Texas Guard officials said no Texas Air Guard records had ever been stored at the facility Burkett named.

Scene from the Texas Air Guard, sometime in the late 1990s…..

The unscrupulous but upwardly mobile high-ranking officer is seated at his desk in the Air Guard headquarters. His uniform is clean and perfectly pressed. He has emblems of rank on his epaulets, collars, and cufflinks. He has numerous decoration ribbons on his shirt. On the wall behind him is a picture of himself in dress uniform.

The telephone rings…

UUMHR Officer: Texas Air Guard, Commander Dastardly speaking… Hello Governor Bush. Yes, I remember you were an officer here once. “Clean out” your records, sir? Yes, I understand. Let’s see, that’s an offense under the Uniformed Code of Military Justice; I could be stripped of rank and removed from service, destroy my career and loose my pension. Not to mention being a rather dishonorable and naughty thing to do.

But, sir, since it’s you, and you might be elected President someday (by the way, is the Florida voting plan coming along?) and I’m unscrupulous and incompetent, but desire a promotion, I’ll do it. At once! [He salutes the telephone and hangs up.]

The unscrupulous but upwardly mobile high-ranking officer sits in silence for a moment. Then he presses an intercom buzzer.

UUMHR Officer: Evil, not too bright but slavishly faithful henchman? Please step in my office, will you?

ENBSFH enters. He is large, fat and slovenly. He has a hump on one side of his back, a cast to the eye on the other side, wild hair, buck teeth and drools slightly. His clothes fit him like an unmade bed. He has sergeant’s stripes.

ENBSFH: Yes, master?

UUMHR Officer: Ah, very good, henchman. I want you to find Governor Bush’s records, and destroy anything that might show he was anything but a perfect officer and pilot.

ENBSFH: Of course, master. What should I destroy?

UUMHR Officer: Oh, the usual. The court-martial papers for flying while drunk, the court-martial records for atrocities committed on Texas ranchers, his pay records, excuses for being absent signed by his father, pretty much everything. He has to look like a perfect officer. This is a secretive and highly illegal action, so only take two or three others with you to do this. Sub-henchmen you can trust. No one must ever know what we are doing here. We could all loose our cushy jobs here if we’re not very careful and cunning.

ENBSFH: Yes, master. What do you want me to do with the papers? Shred them? Burn them? Eat them?

UUMHR Officer: No, just dump them in the trash behind the building. That will be fine.

ENBSFH: Yes, master. [ENBSFH leaves, dragging one leg behind him.]

UUMHR Officer smiles to himself and speaks aloud: I will be Air Lord for this! Mother will be so proud!!!
 
LAK said:
Quartus,

I did see the portion exhibited where questions were raised concerning some of the fonts used etc.

It's gone waaaay beyond 'questions being raised'. Anyone who thinks the memos were anything other than a very clumsy forgery is either not paying much attention or is a blind partisan. The proofs of their phoniness are legion. The ONLY room for debate is whether the contents reflect what actually happened.


I hope the shakiness of that position is obvious, that is, arguing that the contents of forged documents is true. Clearly, such a claim requires extraordinary proof. (Particularly since there are payroll and dental records which show he was there, and one eyewitness who says he clearly remembers Bush being present during the period in question.)


LAK said:
But see my first post, then second paragraph of my last post. I only commented over the issue of notes, keep a journal over the issue, etc.


:confused: The memos supposedly ARE the Colonel's private journal - the contents of the memos ARE the contents of the journal, unless I've missed something here. If the discussion is about the plausibility of an ANG Colonel keeping such a file, how is it possible to participate without having read the file?

I'm confused!
 
Perfect? No. Pretty? Hardly. Worth it? Absolutely.

I find it amusing that the left is so fixated by things that happened 30 years ago. Kerry shifted focus away from his tweny years in the senate and onto his months in Vietnam. Why? Furthermore, now the left is trying (desperately) to disparage Bush's Vietnam record. To which I say, "What record? Who cares?" Bottom line: Bush could've used his dad's influence to get out of going to Vietnam. And you know what? I don't care. People make mistakes. We're all human. Furthermore, Kerry could very well have been the hero he says he was (which I doubt highly). If so, kudos. Thanks for answering the call to serve us. But this campaign isn't about what happened 30 years ago, it's about what's happening right now. I don't care whether Bush showed up for a physical in Alabama (or anywhere else) in 1971 (or any other time) because I KNOW he showed up at a place called ground zero in 2001. And I KNOW that ever since then he's been taking the fight to the godless mongrels who threaten our country. Perfect? No. Pretty? Hardly. Worth it? Absolutely. I'm not interested in history lessons nearly so much as I am in who's going to step up and lead when the chips are down. W. has shown he's got what it takes. As for Kerry, as far as I can tell he maybe, might, kind of still be on a swift boat in vietnam. Sort of.
VICTORY IN '04!
 
I am always amused about "Liberals".

Yes, hahaha, I smoked pot, hahaha, but I NEVER INHALED IT hahaha. (Bill Clinton).

I never had sexual relations with this woman, Monica Lewinsky. (And she never inhaled it!)

Nice people, this "Liberals"

Do you know what the true meaning of "is" is???

By the way, the whole quagmire has nothing to do with ideology. In my old country, the conservatives lost their power after consecutive 40 years of being the "ruling class". They wished that (Western) Germany goes to the sewer fast, just to regain power.

Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolute.
 
Quartus
The memos supposedly ARE the Colonel's private journal - the contents of the memos ARE the contents of the journal, unless I've missed something here. If the discussion is about the plausibility of an ANG Colonel keeping such a file, how is it possible to participate without having read the file?

Soley on the issue of whether anyone in such a position would keep a personal journal concerning a work matter. See Destructo6 and Fred Hansen's posts and my responses. But that is the extent of my view of what would have been possible - aside from any question of the accuracy of content - or the origins of the paper itself.

No surprize to me if the file was "all true" - or "all false" - in content alone. No surprize if the paper was a complete fabrication. In the end it is just another round of WWF to keep enough people distracted enough of the time, and occupy newsprint and airtime that could be better spent on more urgent matters.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top