Documents forged? content 100% accurate

[Fred Hansen]

Liberal Elitists...

say that they are intellectual giants when compared to even the brightest of the "Great Unwashed" i.e. conservatives, but, if I may, one small suggestion please: TRY DOING SOMETHING/ANYTHING that will impress me. Just once - that's all I ask - show me how clever you are, instead of blabbering me to death with how damn smart you are.

We could show a real document from that era to a child with learning disabilities, then show the same child the "documents" from CBS, and the child could tell they were fake. And yet you people feel the need to use some sort of Hunter Thompson off-the-deep-end-I-can-hear-the-colors-we're-all-liquid-man-U.S.-out-of-North-America crap to defend these idiotic allegations. It's pathetic.

Oh, and since you are so smart, how does it feel to be beaten at every turn by the dummy Dubya? I'd love to hear what it is like to be stomped by someone that one thinks to be stupid. Personally I've never had that happen to me.

Any liberal lurkers out there, feel free to chime in. Here is a golden opportunity to tell the world what it is like to be crushed by those who seem (to you at least) to be below your intellectual standards.

 

[Quartus]

There you go again, Fred. Beating around the bush! Why don't you just come right out and say what you think?

 

[Fred Hansen]

I'm working on actuallizing my self-expression needs.


I think I'll try my hand at giant puppets next.

 

[bountyh]

Really?

" One doesn't keep a file showing a history of one's own dereliction of duty, unless of course one is an idiot."

The woman testified that it was a private journal, so obviously he didn't expect anybody else to see it.

"I have read/seen/heard nothing that would suggest that the Colonel was an idiot."

Well, I have read/heard/seen testimony from the eyewitness who worked for Killian and she made the specific charges that:

1) Killian was pissed because he was getting leaned on not to write accurate reviews of Bush.

2) The other pilots resented the preferential treatment Bush got.

Her interview was broadcast and I posted the link to the transcript.

So, I guess she must be part of the great conspiracy to assasinate Bush's character? Odd that the other pilots who served with Dubya are not lining up to dispute the old lady's "lies". Still wondering about that one.

"Of course, they are lying."

No, only people who say bad things about Bush are automatically assumed to be liars.

 

[bountyh]

Fighter pilot speaks out

http://www.mensnewsdaily.com/archiv...bough082204.htm

BUT HERE"S WHAT HE SAID:

"Having been a Squadron Commander, I can tell you this -- we know the status of our assigned personnel all the time -- everyone is accounted for. We reported the status of all our squadron personnel daily to a higher level in our organization. Likewise, Lt. Bush’s Squadron Commander of 30 plus years ago (Lt. Col. Killian, now deceased), would have known where Lt. Bush was or, at the very least, how to contact him should that have been necessary."

What the heck does that prove? In his opinion Killian should have known where Bush was? AGREED. But, the point is, the charges are that Bush was not complying with Killian's orders and he (Killian) was pissed off because he couldn't write him up for it. Where is any pilot who was at ALABAMA who will step up and say: "I was there, I saw him there, he was drilling at the appointed times, etc.." This article is just a puff piece that doesn't prove jack.

 

[Quartus]

When I saw you had posted to this thread, I knew it was going to be funny!

The woman testified that it was a private journal, so obviously he didn't expect anybody else to see it.

Uh, the point here is that you don't even CREATE a file that shows your dereliction of duty. It's not about "not expecting anyone to see it". Nobody in their right mind would CREATE EVIDENCE AGAINST THEMSELVES. You may keep documents that show what was done by other people - documents that would tend to exculpate you or at least mitigate your own wrong doing, but you don't create damning evidence against yourself.

No, only people who say bad things about Bush are automatically assumed to be liars.

No, people who create or attempt to validate clumsily forged documents are assumed to be liars. It's a pretty well accepted legal standard, actually. If you are shown to be lining up with liars, your testimony is considered suspect, at best. Lacking any corroborating evidence, people who have thrown their lot in with liars are considered... Well, LIARS.

Especially when that person was not in a position to have the knowledge they claim to have.


Did you miss the fact that this woman was just a pool steno, and NOT Killian's personal secretary?

This article is just a puff piece that doesn't prove jack.

You're standing on forged documents and talking about "proof"?


Uh, ever hear of "innocent until proven guilty"? At this point, I don't see enough evidence to bring charges, much less prove guilt!

 

[Fred Hansen]

But, the point is, the charges are that Bush was not complying with Killian's orders and he (Killian) was pissed off because he couldn't write him up for it.

The point is until you leftists come up with some - and this is the IMPORTANT PART!!! - CREDIBLE EVIDENCE there are no charges. Only forgeries and lies.

Produce the equivalent of a blue stained dress, and we'll talk. Until then... <PLONK>

 

[Quartus]

Uh, Fred? That should be "stained blue dress", not "blue stained dress". It was a blue dress that was stained, not a dress that was stained blue.

Why bother?

Well, it's a more substantial discussion than accusations built on forged documents!

 

[Fred Hansen]

Mea culpa.

OTOH blue-stained would really mean stained blue, while blue stained dress could still be interpreted as stained blue dress, rather than as a dress that was stained blue.

*DISCLAIMER* This post is not meant to infer anything.

 

[GoRon]

BH,
From one of the links I gave you in an earlier post.




On Friday, a retired officer with the Alabama Air National Guard told CNN that he witnessed Bush serving his weekend duty in 1972 -- an account that could be significant given the persistent Democratic questions.

Speaking Friday from Daytona Beach, Florida, John B. "Bill" Calhoun said he commanded Bush and that Bush attended four to six weekend drills at Dannelly Field in Montgomery. He said Bush was with the 187th Tactical Reconnaissance Group in Alabama in 1972.

The drills consisted of eight-hour shifts Saturdays and Sundays, Calhoun said.

"We didn't have the planes that he could fly," Calhoun said. "But he studied his manuals, he read flying safety regulations, accident reports -- things pilots do quite often when they are not getting ready to fly or if they don't have other duties

 

[Mike in VA]

All in all, I really don't care whether Bush goofed off in the NG, or whether Kerry puffed up his exploits in Nam 30+ years ago.

I am interested in what they've been doing lately (i.e. last 5 years), Bush's record, such as it is, is pretty obvious. Underwhelming in some respects, but all in all, he's been getting it done, and compared to Gore in the same circumstance . . . . OMG, and thank God W's been there.

So is Kerry's - he hasn't been going to work, doing the Senator thing, and when he has, his voting record sucks on all the things that are important to me. By my reconning, he is the worst sort of elitist hypocrite - no vision, no backbone, poll-driven, gutless, tax raising, PC/diversity-suck-uping, gun-grabbing POS. JMNSHO :barf:

 

[Destructo6]

The woman testified that it was a private journal, so obviously he didn't expect anybody else to see it.

There's no such thing as a CO. And just for argument's sake, why would he type a journal entry, on letterhead, when he was not known to type?

Here's some classic drivel for you:

The rumor is already going around: CBS was snookered by a RNC plot, doubtlessly engineered by Carl Rove. If the DNC and their Blue Media allies are so haplessly manipulated by such transparent tricks there's just no hope--quit now!

Yeah, it couldn't have been Bill Burkett.

 

[Cactus]

The woman testified that it was a private journal, so obviously he didn't expect anybody else to see it.

I see!!! So Lt. Col. Killian keeps a private CYA journal SO super, duper, double top secret that even his wife and son know nothing about it! Yet this pool typist has first hand knowledge of it?

Well, I have read/heard/seen testimony from the eyewitness who worked for Killian and she made the specific charges that:...

You choose to accept the charges of ONE person, never mind that she stated just the week before in an interview with the Houston Chronicle that she had NO first hand recollections of Lt. Bush, because her charges (NOT testimony; she wasn't in court or under oath) fit what YOU want to believe. Meanwhile, you ignore the interviews given by Killian's wife, son, boss and co-worker that directly contradict her charges.

The other pilots resented the preferential treatment Bush got.

Where are all of these "other" pilots that resented Lt. Bush??? Why haven't THEY spoken up? It should be easy to find at least one if there was any truth to these charges!

In fact, Bush's training officer and the commanding general of the ANG have publicly stated that Lt. Bush was a skilled pilot that was well liked by his squad mates. There is also the statements of Lt. Col. Killian's son, who served with his father, saying that his father thought highly of Lt. Bush.

But no. We're supposed to ignore all of these men who actually worked alongside then Lt. Bush and believe a pool typist that has "no first hand recollections" of Lt. Bush yet "feels" that the other pilots resented him!

Her interview was broadcast and I posted the link to the transcript.

It appeared on CBS, so it must be accurate! :barf:

No, only people who say bad things about Bush are automatically assumed to be liars.

No. Only people who make charges that are totally unsupported by ALL verifiable evidence.

 

[LAK]

Fred Hansen,

I am sure this Colonel was no idiot. But a Colonel isn't that high on the totem pole in the military - and just another pion in the upper levels of politics. If he was pressured by people he thought he had no chance against the only thing he could do was document his own actions and keep notes.

Destructo6,

A CYA might contain written correspondence with your mark. But unless they are stupid, people involved in this kind of intercourse do not use document transmittals - or any other written form for that matter - when engaged in such things.

 

[mvpel]

I bought a "fake but accurate" Rolex at a flea market in Mexico for $125, once.

 

[Fred Hansen]

LMAO

 

[bountyh]

" There's no such thing as a CO."

Really? My wife will be shocked to hear that since she currently is the Commanding Officer of a reserve unit.

" And just for argument's sake, why would he type a journal entry, on letterhead, when he was not known to type?"

Why do I have to waste time answering comments from people who didn't even read my post? I said that Killian kept his information in a personal journal, I NEVER said he typed it or the memos in question. In fact, if you read the postings and article quoting Ms Knox, she specifically says she believed that she had NOT typed these memos but believed they were typed by someone who had access to Killian's journal because the info matched what he (Killian) had told her and also what she (Knox) had typed in other memos.

Nobody ever claimed Killian had personally typed any memos.

 

[bountyh]

"Yet this pool typist has first hand knowledge of it? "

I guess it's fortunate Ms Knox is retired so she won't have to take the pay cut since you clearly have demoted her from Killian's personal secretary to a pool typist.

"You choose to accept the charges of ONE person,"

No, unlike you, I ACKNOWLEDGE the charges of the person and accept the possibility she may be telling the truth. Further, I ask the question: If she is lying (which could easily be proved) why only dead silence from the other members of Bush's unit in Alabama? If the mans erved and drilled, why not any pilots standing up to say: "I saw him there."

"Where are all of these "other" pilots that resented Lt. Bush??? Why haven't THEY spoken up?"

The real question is why haven't they spoken up? If, as you say, all these charges of Bush getting special treatment are rubbish, why dead silence? These charges have been dragged through the media for months. Where are the other pilots who would "set the record straight"?

 

[bountyh]

" I am sure this Colonel was no idiot. But a Colonel isn't that high on the totem pole in the military - and just another pion in the upper levels of politics. If he was pressured by people he thought he had no chance against the only thing he could do was document his own actions and keep notes."

You know, what you wrote is so obvious a man in a coma working on his last six brain cells could figure it out. Quite a commentary on the responses I have been getting to the outrageous assertion that MAYBE the charges made by Ms Knox are valid........ and the unsnswered question: why haven't the repubs trotted out all those pilots who adored Mr Bush?

" In fact, Bush's training officer and the commanding general of the ANG have publicly stated that Lt. Bush was a skilled pilot that was well liked by his squad mates."

But the charges made are that he got preferential treatment from superiors, and you offer "proof" from their mouths?

I ask again: where are the testimony of the pilots in his Alabama unit to say: a) he was there and b) he had to do the same stuff we did.

PERIOD.

 

[Cactus]

I guess it's fortunate Ms Knox is retired so she won't have to take the pay cut since you clearly have demoted her from Killian's personal secretary to a pool typist.

Why don't you show us all PROOF that she was his personal secretary since others have stated that she was NOT?

But the charges made are that he got preferential treatment from superiors, and you offer "proof" from their mouths?

Where's your proof that he DID get preferential treatment? Ben Barnes? What a crock; even Barne's daughter says her father is lying. Want proof? Ben Barnes said that he got President Bush into the guard when he (Barne's) was Lt. Governor of Texas (check the CBS transcript): problem is that President Bush joined the Guard in 1968 and Barnes didn't become Lt. Governor until 1969! But you already know that, but I'm sure you'll just ignore it (again) and continue to repeat your false accusations.

Maybe your proof is the 36 year old memories of an 86 year old typist who would have had no connection to the application and acceptance process of an enlistee? A woman who is a partisan democrat and has made comments like "Bush was selected, not elected", etc. A woman who has "knowledge" of a superiors PRIVATE journal that the mans family says never existed.

I ask again: where are the testimony of the pilots in his Alabama unit to say: a) he was there and b) he had to do the same stuff we did.

I'll tell you, AGAIN! One of President Bush's fellow officers at the Alabama Guard has publicly stated that then Lt. Bush was attending his required drill in the commanding officer's office since Bush was not qualified to fly the type of planes used in Alabama. Plus, Bush's medical records released by the Pentagon show that he was in Alabama. But maybe the doctor just made them up, right?

But then again, the President has provided all available evidence of his service. He doesn't have to prove anything! It's up to you lefties who are making the accusations to prove him wrong; something you haven't been able to do in over ten years.

They can't find any credible wittnesses. They can't find any records. So now they've resorted to forging documents. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before Michael Moore "discovers" some film of Lt. Col. Killian writing in his non-existant journal!

You really do need to have your leftie buddies at MoveOn and Democratic Underground make up some new allegations for you. These ones you keep repeating have been as discredited as the CBS documents.