Do you get involved ? (Redux)

kcshooter, we have similar backgrounds as far as growing up on the wrong side of the tracks. Having lived the poor boy's life, it isn't easy. You are quite correct when you say, that when violence is required that it should be blindingly violent and without hesitation. You know as well as I do that guns aren't always the best means to put a person down. Sometimes one must get their hands bloody.

Col. Copper was indeed an intelligent man. Much of his writings are profound. This still gives no reason to place this man above all others. There are many others, such as Fairburn, Applegate, Skeeter, etc.
that are as qualified to advise people on the use of firearms in combat and their effectiveness. I am in no way detracting from Col. Cooper. I am not a man of one book or of one experience. There many ways to skin a cat. Cooper's methods are but one way. Limiting one's solutions to a myriad of situations from one man's philosophy is folly. Yes, it may upset some folks to know that some others do not worship any man. That would be their problem.

I wasn't a commissioned officer and wouldn't have wanted to be. If given the opportunity, I would have become a Warrant Officer, as their skills require a much more technical understanding than any general officer would most likely be capable of. Still, that is neither here nor there, as the Army wouldn't allow me to change MOS. The MOS I was in was a shortage MOS. Anyone that was an FO wasn't going to be able to change MOS period. So instead of getting screwed by the Army, I left them behind. No need to be used like a puppet.

My ASVAB was 98%, GT 129, in addition to having an IQ of 136 on a max 143 scale. Would you say that those numbers make me a dull kitchen knife? I could have chosen any MOS in the enlisted ranks, and possibly became a CWO. That is if the Army hadn't put me in the worst unit in the entire army. How did I learn that my unit was the worst? The Army Times reported it in one of their posts. Luck of the draw I suppose.

When it comes to officers, they come in many flavors, we had a Major, that barley spoke English, he kept trying to tell me how to operate the FBCB2 system in a particular manner that the system wasn't capable of. For some reason he thought that he knew more about it than a soldier that was trained in it's proper usage. I have seen far too many commissioned officers that were arrogant self import pricks, whom no one could convey to them their lack of understanding of a particular system and it's capabilities.

So pardon me when I speak of personal experiences with commissioned officers. I bet you would have loved to find out that when on a road march that your CO was marching with a ruck sack full of pillows, while yours was over 100 lbs. Seems that my CO wanted to appear as if he was leading by example. So yes, I have a problem with deceptive, self righteous, officers that push pencils and like to think that they are tough as nails, when the real soldiers are in the enlisted ranks. The best commissioned officers that I ever had the pleasure to operate under were those that came from the enlisted ranks. The officers that come from cadet schools tend to not be as good. I hope that answers your questions.

We may not all agree on the same philosophies, but we can agree that the POS, who was beating the old man, needed to have his skull caved in. ;)
 
How many 'read between the lines' pick ups did you fellow vets pick out of that last post? ;)

The volumes of info people TELL while trying to SAY something else.
 
Rank... Let's see. Does that fact that Audie Murphy was only a Second Lieutenant, U.S. Army, Company B, 15th Infantry, 3d Infantry Division, make him any less qualified to speak in comparison to Col. Cooper? But hey we are free to speak in America as we chose. How about Sgt York for those of us that only reached the NCO level. ;)

Bruxley:), read between those lines.:D
 
I don't put Cooper above all others. There are alot of great teachers out there. But, if any professional has an opinion on a profound issue that sharply contrasts Cooper's, I would be very leery.
 
Well, I am misinterpreting a previous statement then. Either way it is just an opinion. The hardest thing to convey is tone of reply. We all get worked up sometimes. That is when I will use exclamation points, otherwise there isn't any malice intended in my replies. Relax guys, the Internet isn't a very good medium to convey a persons demeanor. My being blunt isn't graceful by any means, but that is what I have to work with, you guys should be able to understand. Too bad we can't use voice communications. Then it would be a little easier to convey. Wish you folks well. Bear with me please, sometimes it isn't easy to make a statement that is pleasing to all. :)
 
kcshooter, we have similar backgrounds as far as growing up on the wrong side of the tracks. Having lived the poor boy's life, it isn't easy. You are quite correct when you say, that when violence is required that it should be blindingly violent and without hesitation. You know as well as I do that guns aren't always the best means to put a person down. Sometimes one must get their hands bloody.
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Um, I didn't say that. My statements were never to involve a physical confrontation. I said to get involved but not at personal risk. I actually said not to run up and start beating the guy as you don't know how many of his friends are nearby. Call the cops, tell the attcker to stop since you called the cops, if he comes at you you are justified in defending yourself, but I don't get my hands bloody, unless the attacker is really close when I shoot him.

Here's what I said in response to the statement that you should run up and attack the attacker physically:
You forgot the part where his buddies that you weren't aware were there jump out and beat you to within an inch of your life. Good move.
Learn from others experiences. Me and a buddy back in our very early 20's got into a fight over a road rage incident one time. These two guys got out of their car so we got out of ours and were all ready to go at it when their 3 other buddies we didn't realise were there got out of the truck in front of them and we got the snot beat out of us. Times have changed, and not for the better. Chances are in this day and age, the 3 from the truck would have had at least one armed guy and we wouldn't have been able to be lucky enough to walk away sore and bruised-both faces and egos.
Get involved but do foolishly put yourself in harm's way.
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I see, easy enough. Thanks for the correction. I guess, being a hands on type. I am a little rash. Still it has worked for me many times. It would be much better if men had to fight with swords and shields as opposed to firearms, as many would be less inclined to engage in war or unadulterated violence of any kind, IMO. There are many people who just want to get through life the easy way. Sometimes the choices are not so easy. I suppose what I am saying in the least words is... Do what works for you and don't expect to come out of any fight unscathed, no matter the method used to win that fight.
 
I love the discussions in this thread. Lots of thoughts here. I have to admit one thing. While I couldn't pull it off, if you ran up to that guy and started pummeling him, I bet it would have been the surprise of his life! That alone would have given anyone quite an advantage, at least initially. What would happen next just has too many variables to figure.
 
OK, I HAVE to comment even though those that have been in and are in already know this. The disrespect paid here toward commisioned officers and the military (Army in this case) is chompin at me.

Those how are considering enlistment or a commision I'd like you to know that commisioned officers are rarely bugs. The few that are can be found in charge of bug units where the other bugs serve untill they inevitably prove they can't or refuse to find thier place in the community and are seperated. Virtually every installation of much size has one of these units.

The military is just that, a community. One STRUCTURED to perform the difficult to impossible. Every single member has a function and every single part is needed for the whole to perform. Team players with an ability to see beyond themselves can thrive there and will.

Obviously, this community and culture are not for everyone. But it is not the role of the military or it's officers to mold to individuals emotional or psycological needs or desires, quite the opposite. A person needs to see themselves as a part of the whole. Given enough time, experience, and observation, it becomes very clear why everything is done the way it is. In fact, it becomes obvious how important the structure is.

Enlisted make it all a reality. They are accountable only to an Officer for thier own role and the role of the few below them if any. You only need to volunteer.

Commisioned Officers are the drive. They are commision by Congress. They are accountable for the life and role of every enlisted man under them and any Jr. Officers. They are accountable to the point of inprisonment for those that serve under them. They are held to a FAR higher standard. They are required to prove self relience, self discipline, and goal oriented achievement. This is typically done by achieving a bachelors degree but field commisioned officers still exist.

Warrent Officers, actually Chief Warrent Officers come from senior enlisted ranks, must be an E-6 to apply, still have to attend OCS, and are considered the experts of the military on the military.

All that said, I cannot stomach slander of any of the Branches or stations of service. Freedom of expression about these branches and stations is gauranteed by them. This gaurantee is DAMN grueling, lonely, painfull, heartrending, and hard fought to maintain. Those that do it and ask for nothing. The doing is enough. Take it for granted and slander em anyway.

I'm alive. Many are not. Is respect too much to ask?
 
Nope, it sure isn't Bruxley. That respect is demanded of the soldier while in service. I know it may eat at you sir. Just know that I do respect them, even if I may not like them. Just as your Drill instructor/Sergeant may have said to you or any other recruit. " You may not like me, but you will respect me. " When in service one must conform to the structure of command. When out of the service we are free to speak our minds. One of the hardest things for people to do, is to agree to disagree. One thing you can be sure of. We all know, or at least should know, that service to one's country isn't easy and any who have served with honor deserve that respect for their service.

Relax man, don't let me get under your skin. If you do that, you have given me control over your mind and actions. I know you are tougher than that, besides I wouldn't want to take credit for doing such a thing as that. Make it a great day and if it makes you happy draw a self conceived picture of me and blast it to ribbons. I respect you for standing up for what you believe Sir.
 
Who made Cooper God? Seems to me that if he was as smart ,as many would like to think that he was, he would have made the rank of General. His opinions are as valid as any other mans. I have seen too many men that only reached the rank of Col. and they all think that their **** don't stink. But of course all **** stinks.
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Without going into detail, the US Army didn't seem to give a care for personal matters that were of family in nature. My loyalties are more to the well being of my own mother, than to an abstract and often twisted position of patriotism and loyalty to a machine that is in the business of killing peoples.
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the Army wouldn't allow me to change MOS. The MOS I was in was a shortage MOS. Anyone that was an FO wasn't going to be able to change MOS period. So instead of getting screwed by the Army, I left them behind. No need to be used like a puppet.
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I have seen far too many commissioned officers that were arrogant self import pricks, whom no one could convey to them their lack of understanding of a particular system and it's capabilities.
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So yes, I have a problem with deceptive, self righteous, officers that push pencils and like to think that they are tough as nails, when the real soldiers are in the enlisted ranks.
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As for the numberous rebukes from a variety of posts apperantly you either have control of the mind and actions of many people OR you are using your right to express your opinion to toss trash in places that blood and hardship have been made sacred to those that bled and endured.

Is it possible for you to simply pick up your trash without a thinly veiled sarcastic comment to sneekingly drop more?

I know 1st ups often can't cope with the emotional sacrices that are bound to arise from isolation from thier homes. Cheating wives/girlfriends, ill family members, friends and family in trouble, etc. These are the most common resons for UAs. The Red Cross is the mechanism the military relys upon to notify them of the emergencies that would require the presence of a service member. And every command heads thier recomndations and accomodates if at all poss.

If you have had an admin seperation I feel for you. I'm sure it is a hard thing to carry. I encourge you to find new service. The military isn't the only place to make a difference in this world.

Enough with the jabs though. The Army, Officers, or any of us didn't bring the to your door. you decsions did.

So, please, enough garbage on sacred soil.

BTW, Dignify your reply by causing it to lack the sneaky drop of more trash if you can, if not then a reply need not be made.
 
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As I was the reason for the premature locking of the original post, I feel compelled to reopen this discussion.
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Don't beat yourself up...poor moderation gets a lot of posts locked here. That's why I visit this site quarterly instead of every day.
 
Thinking that your martial arts training will neutralize several opponents with knives in those close quarters is for the movies.
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I've been taught that you can generally take on someone who has less training than you. Sure there are times when someone will get a lucky punch in...however I train to fight 2 or 3 guys at one time (no weapons involved) and I've had some training in disarming someone with a knife (although I really need to advance more in this area before I'd feel confident in a real life situation). Fighting two or more guys is simple, keep them lined up so you're only fighting one at a time, and of course, quickly disabling them helps.
 
I probably would have gotten involved. I've done it before, usually just a harsh word to make the BG leave, but if not..........well the idea of breaking his knee and using the door on his head when he goes down sounds rather exciting after viewing the video, and seeing the beaten and bruised victim's interview.
 
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