Defensive Cane vs. Knife, when you are restricted

I think that somebody trained to use a cane as a weapon would benefit from a cane in a self defense situation. Somebody that is not trained would probably wind up being beaten with their own cane. Barnaby Jones was a bad boy with his cane.......
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Lets not pretend that you need be a master a particular kwan in order to effectively use a bludgeon to overcome or ward off a criminal attacker. Its not rocket science.

The problem is that most canes and baton like objects are simply not robust enough to be effective "stoppers" except in the most narrow of circumstances. A person could argue all day that someone could defeat 10 men with a rolled up magazine but and although it might be true, I think it is simply an unreasonable standard. I do not consider these issues to be about lack of training but rather the intentional construction of a plan to cut wood with a feather.

Generally speaking, a person armed with 14" of lead pipe is often more of a threat than the same person armed with a typical walking cane, baton or similar object. Its not about training necessairly, its about the nature of the weapon, physics and plausible impact force.

I am not suggesting that a cane should not or could not be used effectively and I am not suggesting that a person carry around a length of lead pipe. I am simply saying that [if] you do not have experience in the use of impact weapons such as canes, sticks and batons. I wouldnt let TV and Movies represent the basis for how effective I expect those weapons to be in a real fight.

As I said previously, I would rather use OC than any baton or common cane.
 
My wife and I have two sets of munchkins! Two in Folsom CA. Aged girl 7 boy 6.
We visit every year (Except 2020 Covid)
Two in Windermere, down the road. Girl 9 boy 6. Had those two for 6 hours on Saturday! We were worn out! My Glock 19 is carried always in Gods Country Florida, outside or in the house.
On the flight to CA, and always whilst out and about, City Stick. Steel tip, unbreakable, bayonet strikes, slashes to arms, legs, crotch. The knob it came with, plastic (Polymer) I tried the stainless steel one, too heavy, back to the original one. White hair, and beard, looks like a fashion statement!
Razor-sharp Benchmade in the hold with a 3"X 1/4" blade. Not sure on blade rules in CA, but I see lots of them clipped on jeans.
I suppose a universal carry license is a pipe dream now?
 
I stumbled across some youtube cane self defense vids.

Several recommend very primal technique. Basic,which is good

CaneMasters has vids.

An important bit of info "I saw on the internet so it must be true" ;) (verify for yourself)

The round brass ball headed walking stick may be considered a weapon(mace) in some jurisdictions, traveling with it may be trouble.

But a conventional walking cane is protected by the Americans with Disabilities Act. Its a Medical Device. You dont require justification.You can take it anywhere. Just DO NOT say its for self protection.

And if anyone insists on seperating you from your cane, demand a signed property receipt,then explain (according to the internet so it must be true;)) they will be liable for injury you sustain without your cane
 
My cane is mostly a cane

But I made sure that it is robust (heart of hickory). Most of the posts here just look at a cane as a striking weapon (likely thinking of walking sticks from movies of 19th century Louisiana and from Victorian era). My cane can also be used in a hooking move.

To repeat, I use my cane as a cane - I need the support. I just prefer to have the reliability if I have to use it for other purposes it won't bend or shatter.
 
it can trigger a mechanical (i.e., muscular or skeletal) reaction to the mechanical action of the weapon.
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regardless of what it can or might do.. I have found baton-like implements to do little more than piss off a determined attacker.

Against a lack luster attacker or half hearted attacker, yeah.. I think they work pretty good for that. Nobody wants to get smacked with a baton

I suspect that television and movies have influenced people into thinking that baton-like weapons are much more effective than they actually are.
 
If a baton is used with less than complete commitment, that can be the case. We were taught that the baton should make a clearly audible 'whistle' when swung; a strike of that intensity, placed accurately at an appropriate point on the anatomy, generally has a fairly reliable effect.

As my instructor put it, "The main failure of a baton in use is an inadequate amount of impact energy delivered to the target. In other words, hit them #@%$# harder."

Larry
 
If a baton is used with less than complete commitment, that can be the case. We were taught that the baton should make a clearly audible 'whistle' when swung; a strike of that intensity, placed accurately at an appropriate point on the anatomy, generally has a fairly reliable effect.
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well good luck with all that.
 
It's not hypothetical on my part; I used a baton a number of times, and generally to good effect. Like any weapon or tactic, there's a time and place it will work, and others where it will not.

Larry
 
A cane can be a serious weapon if you know how to use it. Just don't think of it as just a blunt force weapon so much. I know one guy that can use a plain cane and seriously screw you up. Disarm you with it to. Put you on your azz so fast you will not see it coming. Go at him with a knife, not a good plan.
 
If you're even considering EVER using a knife in a defensive situation - get Hank Reinharts book on knife fighting.
 
When I worked at the Cavern Club in Liverpool UK, from 1960 till 1964, as a very active Bouncer. I had my wife make a baton inside the right side trouser pocket.
This was not a manufactured baton. But an old ruler from the days when ink pens had nibs. Can not remember the exact dimensions 18"X1.5"? of ebony wood.

I drilled a hole through one end. Threaded a leather bootlace through it, knotted it. To use it, you put your right thumb through it, placing your hand through it, around the back of your hand.
If someone had a firm grip of the baton, to stop that person dragging you all over the Street, you could simply just slip it, losing the baton (it never did happen) though.

I never struck any person in the body or head, in an overhead strike. But broke a few knuckles! And poked a few kidneys! Once even breaking a bottle of wine that was being smuggled in! Seen outlined in a jacket pocket.
Left it behind on one of my many house moves, in Canada. Years ago.

Every November, our month-long trip to my wife's youngest Sons home in Tucson. (Not this year! Covid 19.) I am accompanied by my City Stick. A solid polymer walking stick, unbreakable! With a lightweight knob to lean on!
A steel tip, that you could use in a bayonet type of strike! You would aim for the solar plexus, stepping firmly into it.

All the slashing strikes are available also.
 
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You might look at the canes with palm rests. I find them to make a pretty good "shooting sticks". I will wrap the crook & rest with an Ace Bandage [figure 8 ] to protect the stock [rifle or ThompsonCenter] . . .
 
Do the same as the park ranger does!

I think that one would have to be incredibly skilled to make good use of either bladed of blunt weapons for self defense, and in most jurisdictions it is probably illegal. You'd also risk retaliation in kind: after you've closed the distance and maybe managed to slashed your more physically powerful opponent on the torso or shoulder, he is going to defensively wrestle the knife from you and guess what he is going to start carving at?

The idea in self defense is to immediately STOP the threat. Blades and clubs do not do that, they are weapons of offense and attack rather then weapons for defense and deterrence.

Pepper spray on the other hand is legal in most places, it is not lethal so you do not end up accused of manslaughter, and it gives you just enough time to get the heck out of Dodge even when confronted by several attackers. You do not need to be skilled or athletic, and anybody can use it.

Here is where it is legal:
https://www.pepper-spray-store.com/pages/all-pepper-spray-state-laws

Think about it. The game warden / park ranger carries a firearm and bear spray. No knives, canes or clubs to shoo Yogi off.
 
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And I also forgot....

in the 21st century, the best defense in an altercation is to whip out your phone and start recording. It is my experience that it helps to keep things from escalating out of proportion.
 
Pistoler0 said:
Do the same as the park ranger does!

I think that one would have to be incredibly skilled to make good use of either bladed of blunt weapons for self defense, and in most jurisdictions it is probably illegal. You'd also risk retaliation in kind: after you've closed the distance and maybe managed to slashed your more physically powerful opponent on the torso or shoulder, he is going to defensively wrestle the knife from you and guess what he is going to start carving at?

The idea in self defense is to immediately STOP the threat. Blades and clubs do not do that, they are weapons of offense and attack rather then weapons for defense and deterrence.

Pepper spray on the other hand is legal in most places, it is not lethal so you do not end up accused of manslaughter, and it gives you just enough time to get the heck out of Dodge even when confronted by several attackers. You do not need to be skilled or athletic, and anybody can use it.

Here is where it is legal:
https://www.pepper-spray-store.com/pages/all-pepper-spray-state-laws

Think about it. The game warden / park ranger carries a firearm and bear spray. No knives, canes or clubs to shoo Yogi off.
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I've sprayed >100 people with 2M SHU OC. NONE were incapacitated, a few were dissuaded, many were completely undaunted.

Of course a knife or club can be a weapon of defense, just as a chair can be a weapon of offense; what counts is intent and actions. And if you think a knife can't effectively defend you against a larger, stronger opponent, you've never seen someone good with a knife at arm's length.

I'd absolutely rather face a gun at 3' than a knife, and I've survived three knife attacks.

Larry
 
Larry,

<<if you think a knife can't effectively defend you against a larger, stronger opponent, you've never seen someone good with a knife at arm's length. >>

You just made my point:

you sound like you are a trained samurai with a Steven Segal attitude, good for you, I pitty the poor bastard who dares to offend you. But my point is, most people don't have neither the training nor the motivation to get as "good with a knife at arm's length" as you are. At least I don't. I am a civilian, a chair jockey, and between work, family, health problems and hobbies I don't have the time to go train in some exotic martial art technique so that I can repel an attack in case I am caught without my GREAT EQUALIZER: my gun.

And for the situations in which a gun is not available, I think that pepper spray is a very viable option, in fact a better option than blades/batons (the point of the OP) for the untrained. Notice how cops don't carry blades and most often do not carry batons. They do carry mace though. It is not meant to incapacitate, it just gives you a few seconds to engage/disengage/escape etc, by DEFLECTING the threat, not necessarily neutralizing it. You use the OC, then neutralize (if you are LE) or escape the threat.

You say:
<<I've sprayed >100 people with 2M SHU OC. NONE were incapacitated, a few were dissuaded, many were completely undaunted.>>
Then you say:
<<I've survived three knife attacks.>>

Again, you make my point. Because it seems that against a trained warrior like yourself the blades were not effective, but you acknowledge that when you used OC it did work to dissuade some.

For the record, I have been sprayed with OC as part of training. It did incapacitate me. I must be a wuss.

Seriously, please humor me with a thought exercise: you are enjoying your hike in Montana, when all of a sudden a Grizzly bear comes out of the bushes and squares off 12 feet in front of you on his hind paws. You have no gun. Now, which would you prefer to have: your blade, your cane, your club, or a can of bear spray?

But of course, against a human attacker (not the Grizzly he he) 10+ years of martial arts combat and a blade would be a great option too, but #1: blades are illegal most places and #2: It will take me 10 years to get that training.

Do you really think that all of us can/should aspire to your level of martial prowess?
 
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Not sure if any of the readers here are familiar with the rough Citys in Great Britan? Seaports are amongst the bad ones, Glasgow in Scotland, Liverpool in England for two.
Visited Glasgow, just on Holiday, Liverpool I am from. And from 1960, till 1964 I was a Bouncer at the Cavern Club, of Beatles fame. As knives have been featured here, I will give you my experience with them.
The Cavern was a teeny bopper club. Average age, 14 or 15. Hi heels and padded bras completed the camouflage. We as married men, had a job, to look after these young ladies. They would arrive in groups, the young guys as well. No booze served here, so that age was fine.
As the club was down 13 stone steps (used to be a wine cellar) it meant anyone we allowed past us if we had a problem with them, we had to eject them after the altercation. Always on a Friday night! Mostly anyway.
Back to knives, Larry and I flew downstairs to sort out two teen guys fighting (over a girl!) I had just dropped my 200 lbs onto one of them. Knees on his belly, he decided he had enough (could not breathe!) felt a punch in the kidney, did not think much about we pitched the kid into the street (Mathew Street) a warm night, my coat was hung up in the Cloak Room. White shirt, clip-on bow tie. Someone pointed out I was showing lots of blood on my back. A trip to the local Emerg, clean up, antibiotics, 3 stitches. Verdict small blade, or nail file? Two cuts.
 
Stab #2. Same Cavern Club. Also a Friday Night. Don't remember what time we stopped letting people in, 10-30 or 11-pm? Maybe even 10. 1962? Anyway, Larry had gone down for a couple of cups of tea (Brewed fresh, of course) and I had a young guy (18 or 20 YOA) hanging around, I had told him we were closed. Looking forward to that hot tea. He was a strange-looking bird. Expensive suit, new, matched with real expensive-looking shoes, gleaming.
Collar and tie, gold watch, me having worked at my full-time job since 9 am up since 7 am I was tired. (The watch was on the right wrist!) which normally means he would be left-handed. I was stood on the 5" step, at street level, leading into the 7M passage to the start of the stairs. I had told him more than enough times we were closed for him to get the message when he threw what I thought was a punch aimed at my mid-drift. I dropped to a crouch, grabbed his wrist. Felt a pinch, a blade had pierced my wrist! He tried to pull it free, for a better spot, my heart? Made no never mind what he wanted, I was not letting go. I was good with my feet, so I swung my left boot up, into his face. I was 27 YOA at that time, climbed ladders and buildings for a job, so I was kind of fit. He was still out when the Police Jeep got there, 5 in the Jeep, the big Jock Sgt. was not pleased with his facial damage. Broken jaw, cheekbone, eye socket, a couple of teeth on the deck. His weapon was a home made ice pick, he even had a holster sewn into the lining of his jacket.
 
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