Defensive Cane vs. Knife, when you are restricted

Posted by pax: The big drawback for muscle-powered weapons is that they require muscles -- and the muscle behind them must be trained what to do. Not simply 'taught' as in having read a few words on screen or even having done it once or twice, but trained in the sense of repeated practice leading to a reflex-speed series of actions under stress.
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I'll go along with that.

Being able to reliably whack a non-moving, non-resisting heavy bag with a cane isn't the same thing as being able to effectively use it in a scrum.
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Very true indeed.

So, the question in my minds is how to compare the amount of training needed to use a cane to defend oneself with the mount necessary to get rom "this is how to load the the magazine" to training one to draw while moving and fire rapidly with combat accuracy at a surprise attacker.

I don't have an objectively based opinion on that.
 
Be aware that in my state, Tennessee, your permit is for "handgun carry" and does not extend to knives, clubs, batons or baseball bats.

If you are carrying anything that can be construed as a weapon, you are in violation. And you're far better off with a gun.

Bob Wright
 
If you are carrying anything that can be construed as a weapon, you are in violation.
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Many items can be "construed" as a weapon when they aren't CLASSIFIED as a weapon, hence carrying a "cane" instead of a "baton"

Anything can BE a weapon once it's used as such, but if it's justifiable defense, I'm not going to worry about what anyone "might" think
 
I use to fence and I think the cane will win. To fight, you advance and retreat to your advantage and with the cane, I'd whittle the knife person down by just doing that. I also have stretch to reach and retreat when I want so I can take out his hand.. I can go on.

When I fenced I had a roommate that was big into Tae Kwando and fencing was inferior. So, we had a short test. Be faced each other and I had a stick. Starting with a short stomp, he braced himself for a defense and attack. I made a quick strike high over the head and he raised his arm to block and probably counterattack. But, I twisted my wrist and the stick ended up by his throat. If it were a fight, I would have lunged back and strike his ankle or leg and prepare again. If he stopped, I would have grounded my foot, shifted my weight and take two hands to bring the stick straight down over his head or shoulder as his right arm would have dropped.
 
Burbank, what are the odds? Far back in the day I was the Wi. Under 19 Saber champion.
I also had my left hip replaced due to arthritis. Medicine is a miracle now- they had me up and walking within a day, walking the dog within a week and without a cane in 3 months. That was almost 3 years ago.

I keep my cane handy, though. Not that I need a weapon at all, but having fenced seriously in my youth, I’m confident a cane can take anyone with a knife apart at the seams. No need for anything fancier than a stout cane.
 
Unless one is under medical advisement to carry / utilize a cane with a well documented medical issue, you may be scrutinized heavily by police / prosecutors if you ever ended up in a self defense situation and the other party plays the victim and claims you assaulted them first, as often happens after the fact.
Also, unless one has had extensive martial arts training and or LEO baton training (LAMB, etc), you might just end up getting it taken away and used against you by a much younger, stronger, faster opponent(s).
I agree with Previous suggestions on avoidance when traveling. Our best weapon is the one between our ears.
 
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I don't carry a cane around. And this might sound cowardly but if a guy showed up with a knife, I'd run as fast as I could.. to find a stick.
 
stinkeypete. Sorry to hear about the arthritis. The worse curse to a person is an ailment that prevents them from doing what they love.
 
Arthritis is a curse, but I am here to tell you first hand- once it starts to impact your life, go see an orthopedic surgeon. What mine did for me is a scientific miracle. Pain is gone and I can walk miles. Or bike. I can't ski or skate anymore because the Ortho says a bad fall can play holy H*** on that titanium joint and it's just not worth the risk. I am happy as can be, not skating or skiing is a small price to pay to have my life back!

Well, I can't get through a metal detector but I have a doctor's note for that and I am sure no one will argue about a cane if I chose to carry one.
 
I also fenced foil,sabre,and eppe for a few years decades ago.
Of course,I cannot do now what I did then. But the quadrants,the lines,the perrys ,attacks ,footwork ,distance,..it has not left me

All of those were one handed weapons.IMO,generally not the best plan with a cane. Retention is weak.

In the same gym was,IIRC,a kendo club. I think kendo is the right term.

They used a bundle of reeds or bamboo to simulate a katana.Some things different,but many things similar to a one handed sword. But its two handed.

Held two hands,mostly midline,point up,in front of you,you are set to parry/repost effectively. There is a very quick strike,while there is more involved,the upper hand punches forward as the lower hand pulls back.

A lunge and arm extension can be included,or actually a short step back,.Feet are actually not far apart.Better for mobility and balance in all directions.Like a dancer.

The opponents hand will be the closest target,or wrist/forearm.Plenty of power to break hand or forearm bones.

That strike will also work on collarbones. It can be rotated to the side of the head or the neck. There is something about incorporating snapping it back to the guard position makes it even quicker. Its a quick pop. Balance is retained.
Mobility in all directions is retained.

Of course,from that guard thrusts and a full swing can be made, but the quick,push /pull pop is like a jab. You can destroy hands and forearms.

Also,with two hands on the stick,techniques similar to rifle/bayonet moves can be used. Like a butt smash .
If you have a weighted head,like a brass ball,I'd keep it close,as a counterweight initially. It will increase the quickness of the strikes and provide better retention.
Though certainly using the weighted end as a mace would make for deeper,perhaps fatal trauma.

The laws will vary state to state. The "other weapons" question came up in concealed carry class. I'm not a lawyer,don't take this as legal advice.
I was told that in Colorado,only a handgun may be carried with the CCW permit as a CONCEALED weapon. Pepper spray,knife,collapsable baton,etc can be carried if they are not concealed. There may be restrictions or local laws around that. Example,it may be brass knuckles,nun chucks,switchblades,etc will be outlawed.

It might be that if you are in a situation that warrants deadly force to defend yourself, I'd think using a cane would be as legit as using a Glock.
 
I have friends who ride motorcycles who are known to carry pick axe handles and use them with great authority.
 
I have friends who ride motorcycles who are known to carry pick axe handles and use them with great authority.
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Back in the day when folks had gun racks in the back windows of their pickups, many an axe handle resided in one of the racks.

Blackthorn = shillelagh, an excellent item for protection
 
Make sure it's a good cane

I was run over by a motorcycle when I was 18, 50 years ago. My left leg was badly fractured. I have since had an ankle replacement and other fun surgeries. I used to use an aluminum cane until I was walking around one day and noticed that I was being followed. I was able to avoid any problem, but it got me to thinking about possibilities. I thought about switching to a wood cane, but would such a cane hold up in case of a problem?
After some research, I found the Cane Masters site. They make defensive canes of various sorts. I decided that I didn't really need all the edges and ridges of their more elaborate ones, but I do use a solid hickory cane that won't shatter if needed as a defense. Cane Masters also has videos and such about what they call "cane fu." Here is a link (I have no business relationship with these people, this is just for information):

https://canemasters.com/
 
I do not see "swinging the cane as a club" as a prudent or effective defensive technique--at all.
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I am no stranger to the straight baton, PR24 style baton and the 36" riot stick. That said, I have not found them to be very effective vs a determined attacker who is trying to harm you. It is simply not what I would want to fight with. I would rather use some form of OC than anything resembling a baton. Dont let television fool you into thinking that smacking a pissed off and determined foe with a baton or cane is going to yield impressive results. It might, but I am rather doubtful based on what I have experienced.
 
The advantage of a baton/stick vs. OC is that a baton doesn't depend on a pain reaction from the opponent; it can trigger a mechanical (i.e., muscular or skeletal) reaction to the mechanical action of the weapon.

It also has the advantage in that repeated application doesn't depend on the same pain response, but compounds the damage.

Larry
 
HiBC said:
I also fenced foil,sabre,and eppe for a few years decades ago.
Of course,I cannot do now what I did then. But the quadrants,the lines,the perrys ,attacks ,footwork ,distance,..it has not left me

All of those were one handed weapons.IMO,generally not the best plan with a cane. Retention is weak.

In the same gym was,IIRC,a kendo club. I think kendo is the right term.

They used a bundle of reeds or bamboo to simulate a katana.Some things different,but many things similar to a one handed sword. But its two handed.
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The kendo training weapon referenced is called a shinai, at least in some places, and is bamboo split lengthwise and then tensioned with some cord. A bit of the reason for the construction is to make a distinctive noise when hit and to reduce the energy transferred to the target as the weapon bits flex. It will pinch!

The foil, fencing epee, fencing saber and shinai are all pretty lightweight compared to nice proper hardwood inch plus diameter cane.

I'm not sure I would put much weight on the "retention" argument. There is a Filipino martial art called Escrima (corruption of a Spanish word for sword) that is a two- stick fighting style with rattan batons about 24 to 30 inches. Two sticks, two hands = one stick per hand.

I have played around with not-actually-a-cane fighting with rattan for quite a while with the Society for Creative Anachronism, one of the earliest Medieval Martial Arts groups. The main problem with cane, or sword, versus knife is if the knife guy is intent enough on getting close enough to actually use it you basically have one chance to deter him before getting into his range. I can put a pretty good dent into 16-guage steel, one-handed with one of the rattan swords/ cane-like object. I know that because the club safety rules require a minimum of 16 gauge, as in 0.0625 Steel, for helmets. Lots of muscle memory training to "hit them in the head". I suspect a good blow to the head would deter many, and no reason to stop at one if it doesn't.

Would I prefer a cane over a firearm, no; mainly because of range.
Would I prefer to have a cane, a simple piece of wood with a non-slip rubber tip to nothing? Yes. And one minor one-hand advantage: while the grip wouldn't be quite right you would likely have to hand
 
I'm not intending to look for a fight with a stick; just defend myself or someone else.

Personally, I don't like wrestling. If I every found myself in such a situation, I'd feel stupid to let myself get to that unless it was absolutely necessary.

I've heard of the Filipino martial arts style but I don't know anything about it.
 
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