Cost:Benefit Looking at Reloading

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think anyone is saying you won't save money by reloading 9mm. I understand them to say that saving @$3 a box is not worth their reloading time since if it takes them 1/2 hour-1 hour (including set-up time) to reload 50 rounds, they would just as soon pay the extra $3.

Exactly. I still do 9mm but don't consider it a savings.

Compare that to .454 Casull that has to cost $100 a box by now that I can load for about $10-$12 or .44 magnun that costs(guessing) $35 or $40 a box that I can load for $8-$10. Now THAT is savings!

As for equipment costs, its what you want to spend. You can easily put togther a basic setup to load a pistol round for under $300, and if that round is .454 or .44 mag, it doesn't take long to start coming out ahead.

I reloaded 17,800 rounds of 9mm last year. That's an approximate savings of $2,400. For me, it is a real savings.

As I said, if you aren't loading more than a few hundred and/or your reloading is slow, then I probably would be a little more discriminating about what calibers I reload. That's why I don't reload any .45ACP. I just don't shoot very much of it.

Fly
 
I'm with TimSr. Wallyworld has decent 9mm playing ammo (Perfecta) for $11/box. As little as I shoot, that just wouldn't be cost effective. Same with 30-06 (blue-box Federal for about $18/box) - great ammo by-the-way.

On the other hand, the stuff that I do care about shooting is pricey. The cheapest .38 I can get locally is more than $20/box. .357 is more than $30/box. .260Rem and .35 Whelen are bordering on obscene.
 
here is a good example. I even did the math to what my costs are right now.
.380 is a great load to reload. I shoot butt loads of them.

Right now if you go to Wally World .380 is avg about 18-$19 a box of 50.
If Tula crap is in maybe less.

Right now I load my .380's and I will factor in cost of new brass. if you pick them up or buy range pick ups. Factor that in.

New Star line .380 brass. $76.50 for 500. so 76.50/500=0.153 per case.
If you reload, your a brass hawk so avg 10 reloading from a case before you loose it. 0.153/10= 0.0153 per loading.

Primers $27.50 for 1000= 0.0275 per loading.

Powder, Promo $116 for 8 pounds. 7000 gr to a pound at a 2.1 gr load.
= 0.00435 per load.

Bullets. I cast my own. lead is running about $1.50 a pound. 7000 gr to a pound. 90gr bullet cost 0.019 each.

So my cost for .380 is $3.30 for a box of 50.

Lets say $18 bucks from Wally - $3.30 = I save $14.70 a box.
yesterday my Son and I shot 200 rounds. SO I saved $58.80

Thats one sixth the cost of a LNL AP. oops an 8th the cost.
The more you shoot the more you save.

Besides, Mine shoot better:

100_9712_zpsiychdaeb.jpg


See, Now that the proper way to talk your self into a whole loading room full of stuff!!!:eek:
 
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The more you shoot the more you save.

I only had to shoot 6,500 round of 10mm to pay for the Dillon XL650! Seven weeks and I started having a return on my investment. Would I have shot 1K - 2K a weekend before? Probably not, but having lots of fun now and I am out of the wife's hair on the weekends! Oops, forgot to figure in all those AR500 gongs I also bought! Oh well, got to shoot some more... She has a granddaughter to play with and I got a bunch of gongs and a 40' x 40' tarp that keeps me entertained!!!
 
I'm with TimSr. Wallyworld has decent 9mm playing ammo (Perfecta) for $11/box. As little as I shoot, that just wouldn't be cost effective. Same with 30-06 (blue-box Federal for about $18/box) - great ammo by-the-way.

On the other hand, the stuff that I do care about shooting is pricey. The cheapest .38 I can get locally is more than $20/box. .357 is more than $30/box. .260Rem and .35 Whelen are bordering on obscene.

I get that, and I have purchased that (Perfecta ammo) for when i am being lazy.
But here is the thing. If you already have the equipment to reload 38 special.
Adding a used set of 9mm dies for $15 or$20 covers you for when the Ammo is not in stock. A couple boxes and your flush. If you get bored with it. Sell the dies to the next guy for $15 and move on.

if your already loading there is no reason not to be loading 9mm. The inclusion cost is cheap.

Side note:
Any one else notice, when you reload and you buy some ammo. You dont want to shoot it. I have two boxes of 32L sitting here and I grab my reloads every time. If I shoot it, i feel I missed some thing. It cost me three times as much, should I not get three times the fun???
 
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Mozella :

I think you're a bit off there . In fact for me I know you are . In the first two years of reloading I loaded 2500+ rounds of 308 using all match quality components . At a cost of $0.57 each . That is about half the cost of factory match rounds and in some cases 1/3 the cost . So lets say I saved $1,250 . I did not have that much invested in equipment . Might have been close but don't think I was over that cost . Now in that time I was also loading 223/5.56 at a savings of about $0.40 a round . That was 1500-ish rounds , now that's a savings of $600 so after two years I'm up $600 .

I look at reloading as saving money a little different then others . My thinking is my guns are going to go bang if I reload or not so reloading makes the most sense for me . People who shoot factory match loads say there goes $1.25 every shot they take . I say woo hoo I just saved $0.70 every time I take a shot .

I believe I'm now at a point that I will never be in the red/black again when it comes to reloading . After breaking even or better I've added 270 , 30-30 , 9mm , and 45acp to the list and because I'd already been reloading . I just needed dies to start those up . I'm now saving money every round I produce . Even if I go progressive in a couple years . My savings in that time will pay for that press .
 
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Yup.. Plus all the equipment you have is still worth money.

That 7 bucks extra I might pay for some ammo is 7 bucks that is gone for good. never to be seen again.
One cent extra on a consumable is one cent to much.

I would rather put that money into a tangible object for the loading room or buy another gun.
Point is your gona spend the money, Put it into blue collar gold instead of a ammo suppliers pocket.
 
if your already loading there is no reason not to be loading 9mm.

Good point in general. However, the problem with 9mm is the brass. Both my 9mm and my .380 pistols launch brass somewhere into the next county. I would literally spend more time looking through the weeds for brass than I would shooting. With revolvers and rifles, I can just plop the bass into a bag.
 
I'm lucky when it comes to brass . The military uses are range that I'm a member of . They get cheap rent if they leave there brass . 1k 9mm cases $30 . When you break that down to how many times they can be loaded . It's a very small cost ( all most free ). I do that math with all brass I buy . I don't add the cost as if I only can load it one time . For 308 brass it cost $25 for 250 . I can load those a minimum of 10 times so that's like getting 2500 for $25 , That's $0.01 each not to bad for 308 brass .
 
jimk60 said:
Gunpowder - $126.99/8 lbs (no tax, no shipping, no hazmat included)
Small Pistol Primers - $143.99/5000 (no tax, no shipping, no hazmat included)
115 Grain 9mm Bullets - $97.99/1000 (no tax, no shipping included)
185 Grain .45 Bullets - $115.99/1000 (no tax, no shipping included)
55 Grain .223 Bullets - $518.99/6000 (no tax, no shipping included)
Small Rifle Primers - $153.99/5000 (no tax, no shipping, no hazmat included)

jimk60 I'm confused where you are getting these prices on components. Are you stating that this is what you are paying at your local gun shop or are these online quoted prices ? If so I'd LOVE to know where your finding 8lbs of powder for $126.99 OTD ? . I'm paying $200 to $219 for powder nothing cheaper.
 
The more you shoot the more you save.

This has been the downfall of the reloader. The more you shoot the more you spend. Let's talk NET DOLLARS or TOTAL DOLLARS not unit cost per round.

Over the past 10 years I have loaded, 25,000 rounds, even at $0.25 per round that comes to $6,250 just for components, now let's count in the $4,859 for reloading equipment and another $1,900 in supplies sitting on the shelf and that is a total $13,009.

That will buy a lot of ammo no matter how you look at it. Will you save money????? Only if you do not get hooked on reloading, I love to reload, but it is driving me to the poor house.

Good luck and put your money in a savings account or a retirement fund.

Jim
 
Jim :

Have you shot any of that ammo you loaded . If so you must subtract the savings per round from the total spent . If I were to just add the cost of everything . That cost would be huge and also be out of context .

You must break it down per round so to compare what that same amount and quality of factory ammo would have cost . That to me is apples to apples , the other way is just apples to nothing .

This next part is a general statement not directed at anyone

I do see the argument trying to be made . You don't save money because you shoot more . hmmm aren't you shooting more because you are saving so much money . I'd think a lot of people don't shoot as much as they would like do to the cost of ammo . There for they spend the same amount and shoot twice as much . Are they saying if you can go on two vacations for the price of the one you already bought . You're not saving any money by going on them both because your out of pocket was the same for both ? buy one shirt get the next one free is not saving any money ? buy two tires get two tires free is not saving money ? Why do people treat reloading different then other cost saving methods ?

My equipment has paid for it self by now ( maybe double ) that cost is no longer in the equation . If it were I would have to consider the resale value first which would be something like half what I paid .
 
HTML:
		50	PER 1					PER BOX OF 50				
9MM			Titegroup	HS-6	Silhouette	SR4756	3N37	Titegroup	HS-6	Silhouette	SR4756	3N37
Hornady	XTP	90	$0.152 	$0.163 	$0.160 	$0.161 	$0.179 	$7.60 	$8.13 	$8.01 	$8.05 	$8.94 
Hornady	HAP	115	$0.162 	$0.170 	$0.166 	$0.170 	$0.187 	$8.12 	$8.50 	$8.32 	$8.51 	$9.36 
Speer	UHP	90	$0.136 	$0.147 	$0.144 	$0.145 	$0.163 	$6.80 	$7.33 	$7.20 	$7.25 	$8.14 
C.O.P	80	80	$0.198 	$0.210 	$0.207 	$0.208 	$0.226 	$9.92 	$10.49 	$10.34 	$10.40 	$11.29 
C.O.P	115	115	$0.206 	$0.214 	$0.210 	$0.214 	$0.231 	$10.32 	$10.70 	$10.51 	$10.71 	$11.56 
Xtreme	HPCB	147	$0.139 	$0.146 	$0.144 	$0.146 	$0.157 	$6.95 	$7.32 	$7.18 	$7.32 	$7.85 
Xtreme	RN	115	$0.130 	$0.138 	$0.134 	$0.138 	$0.155 	$6.52 	$6.90 	$6.71 	$6.91 	$7.76 
Berry's	RNHB	124	$0.131 	$0.138 	$0.135 	$0.139 	$0.146 	$6.54 	$6.92 	$6.73 	$6.95 	$7.31 
Montana Gold	JHP	95	$0.136 	$0.147 	$0.141 	$0.145 	$0.163 	$6.81 	$7.34 	$7.04 	$7.26 	$8.14 
Blue Bullets	TC	147	$0.124 	$0.131 	$0.129 	$0.131 	$0.138 	$6.20 	$6.57 	$6.43 	$6.57 	$6.88 
Blue Bullets	RN	125	$0.126 	$0.133 	$0.130 	$0.134 	$0.142 	$6.29 	$6.63 	$6.48 	$6.70 	$7.10 
Ranier	HP	125	$0.156 	$0.164 	$0.160 	$0.164 	$0.172 	$7.79 	$8.20 	$7.98 	$8.20 	$8.60

Here are real costs.....using a whole bunch of different stuff
 
now let's count in the $4,859 for reloading equipment

Just out of curiosity, what the heck did you buy that you spent nearly $5k on reloading equipment????

Admittedly, I'm cheap, and have been acquiring my reloading tools since the early 1970s, but I load for over 30 different rounds, and I doubt I have quite that much tied up in my tools & dies.

Looking at the most popular rounds (primarily the military ones) you save the least by reloading. I stopped reloading .223 back when it was $129 a case, (#1, because I had enough, but #2, I could buy it about as cheaply).

Now with today's costs, it is a bit different, but while the dollar amount has changed, the principle still applies. 9mm, .223, etc. are about the least profitable rounds to reload. In other words, you save the least per round over factory.

Now, other rounds, like say the .22 Hornet, or the .45-70 the situation is much different, the amount you save per shot is a much higher percentage.

AND, that leaves out the entirely un-quantifiable cost of having ammo tailored to your gun(s) and shooting styles and needs.
 
AND, that leaves out the entirely un-quantifiable cost of having ammo tailored to your gun(s) and shooting styles and needs.

That's a good point . My numbers for 308 and 223/5.56 were based on match quality rounds . How ever even my cheap 223/5.56 plinking rounds at $0.23 each shoot far better then any factory round that's close to that cost . I did neglect to mention the quality benefits compared to the cheap factory rounds .

I just did the math on my 9mm loads . Using titegroup and berry's bullets . I can load 50rds for about $8 . Cheapest I've found it around town is $15 .Internet is about $10 per 50 +shipping . Now that's not the same type bullet but the two are used for the same purpose ( range practice ) So it's red apples to green apples I guess .

To the post below mine . If I figured the cost of my time . It would never be worth reloading . As I stated in other post . I buy once fire military brass . So the amount of case prep that goes into my 308 & 223/5.56 match loads is really off the charts . Maybe 2hr+ per every 250 cases . There are some things I could do to cut down on time like spray lube rather then wax by hand each case . Just this week I've been prepping 308 cases and was thinking a prep center could cut my time in half . Now thats another $200 give or take depending on what I get .
 
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http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=663065

Numbers guy, eh? Check out this thread.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=663065
I developed a spreadsheet to figure in component cost, equipment cost, my startup (learning) time's cost and processing time cost. It was fun for me and I hope you may enjoy it, too. Maybe even expand on it.

(To those who decry counting time's cost for a hobby, I would like to point out that crunching numbers is also one of my hobbies. Don't trash the pleasure I get from my hobbies and I won't take offense.)

also see

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=7760989

Lost Sheep
 
Dib;t ask about cost alone. Ask the more general question: "Why"?

The fish I catch might cost more than the fish I buy;
The veggies I grow might cost more than the those I buy;
The ammunition I shoot might cost more than retail;
Why do I fish, garden and handload?
If you have to ask why, you probably won't understand; these activities enrich my life.

Actually, to tell the truth, I do calculate the cost of my ammunition, fish and zuccini. I even include the dollar value of my time. If you have to ask why, you probably won't understand. Running the numbers satisfies my curiosity. If including my time in the cost of my handloads makes them appear to cost more than store-bought, so be it. I don't care. If it doesn't enrich me, it, at least, enriches my life.

http://rugerforum.net/reloading/46425-worth.html#post540967

Posting such a question on a reloading forum (where, presumably everyone reading your thread is an active reloader or considering it) is virtually guaranteed to get answers biased towards, "yes".

But, let me count the ways:

Economy: Depending on what cartridges you are reloading (and whether or not you want to count your time and the up-front equipment costs) you can save anywhere from just a little to 80% or more of your ammo costs. (9mm is very close to no savings. 500 S&W, my friend's ammo costs are $0.75 per round, factory loaded ammo is $3.00 each for comparable ammo. More exotic calibers (especially rifle calibers) can save even more. Some rounds are not even available on a regular basis at any price.

Quality: Ammo you craft yourself can be tuned to your firearms particular characteristics. Handloaders for rifles quite often find some individual guns have quite striking differences in group size when shooting tuned ammunition.

Knowledge: As you study reloading, you will, perforce, also study internal ballistics. The study of internal ballistics leads into the study of how your firearm works.

Customization: Ammo you load yourself can be tuned to your particular needs. My friend with the 500 S&W loads full power loads and "powder puff" loads that clock 350 grain slugs a little under 800 feet per second. I know that's more than a G.I. 45 ACP's power and momentum, but they shoot like 22 rimfire in that big, heavy gun. Great for fun, familiarization, training and letting the curious bystander go for a "test drive" with a super-light load, a medium load, a heavy load and, if they are still game one of the big boomers. This tends to avoid the "rear sight in the forehead" mark.

Satisfaction: Punching small bunches of small, medium or large holes in paper or bringing down a game or food animal with ammunition you crafted yourself has a good deal of satisfaction. Same reason I prefer to make my own biscuits instead of store-bought.

Smug satisfaction: When the ammo shelves are bare during a market or political scare, loaders are demonstrably less affected by the shortages. A couple of pounds of powder, a thousand primers and bullets (or few pounds of lead) and a hundred cartridge cases wouldn't fill a small book carton, but lets the loader know he can shoot while price-gougers take advantage of non-loaders.

Self-satisfaction: The repetitive, calm, attentive concentration of the reloading activities is often found to be so much fun as to bring to the shooter's mind the question, "Do I reload so I can shoot shoot or do I shoot so I can reload?". Some find loading to be as satisfying a hobby as shooting or fly-tying or many other hobbies.

The more fanatical among us combine a couple of the features I have mentioned and, instead of shooting for bullseye accuracy at the range, reload in a search for the "magic load" that achieves perfection in a given rifle. Then, they move on to the next target, which is another rifle and another tuned load. But you do have to be at least a little fanatical to even get it. It is the hunt they seek, for they enjoy the quest more than the goal.


I am sure there are many other reasons, but these are the main ones I can think of.

Handloading is not rocket science, but it does involve flame and smoke and things that go very fast, so caution is appropriate. If you can change a tire without losing your lug nuts and follow a cake recipe reasonably well, you can reload.

Thanks for asking our advice

Lost Sheep
 
Oops, I'm way late to this party. But I'll throw out some thoughts:

1) Add another voice to the choir that says if you're only considering a cost-savings perspective, you're likely better off just buying factory ammo. In my experience, most people who are avid reloaders do it because they enjoy some aspect of it. It may be chasing one-hole groups, testing as many different bullets as you can, even hunting for deals on components and supplies. Those who just do it to save money tend to put the gear up for sale later.

2) Reloading lets you build things that aren't readily available or reasonably priced as factory ammo. Things like .357 Magnum with 158gr XTPs aren't easily found on the shelf near me, or come in 25-round boxes, but I can reload those all day long easily and affordably. Or load up a bunch of .223 Remington with 69gr Sierra Matchkings.

3) As already stated, reloading and having a stock of supplies on hand lets you weather panics. I adjusted my shooting down a little to stretch supplies, and changed my range trips to have a practice plan, and made it through. (I'm also not as high-volume as some folks and have managed my pistol loading on 5-6 pounds of powder the last 4 years or so.)

4) Even on .223 and 9mm, you can save money. Or improve accuracy. My .223 reloads with 55gr FMJ Hornady bullets run about 26 cents each, or $26/100, and shoot around 2-MOA, which is better than I get out of factory ball ammo. A box of 100 9mm runs about $13 using plated Berry's bullets. They may not shoot much better than a box of WWB or Federal, but I'm not constrained by purchase quantity limits either.

5) Lastly, you don't need super fancy and pricey equipment to make ammo. I use a hand-me-down LEE single-stage press for rifle loading, and a LEE Pro 1000 for running 9mm and .38/357. Both work great and aren't terribly expensive. It does help to be ready and willing to tinker a little with the Pro 1000. Once up and running though it will make 300-rounds an hour with little effort. Again, I'm not a super-high volume user, so this level of production works great for my needs.
 
I haven't read the previous replies, but I did glance over them.

It looks like I'm not jumping into the middle of a tangential discussion, so I figured I'd just share my thoughts....


I've been reloading since I was four or five years old. 'Round about six years old, I was trusted enough to be left alone to load .223 Rem, and some revolver cartridges.
For me, reloading has always been something that you just DO if you own firearms.

It was a natural connection: Reloading : Food :: Firearms : People.
People need food. So, if you want to live, you eat.
Firearms need ammunition. So, if you want to shoot, you reload.

But, as I grew up and discovered that reloaders were the minority, I learned many of the arguments that we reloaders make to justify our hobby.
I've done the financial analysis, the quantity vs quality comparisons, and everything else you see people talk about.

What it really comes down to is that I enjoy reloading (and bullet casting, and bullet swaging, and tinkering, and experimenting, and...). I enjoy putting together quality ammunition that I know I can trust, that I know exactly how it will perform, that was custom tailored to that particular firearm, and that I know isn't going to blow up in my face due to an equipment malfunction at some factory in Bangladesh.
As a bonus, I get to put together some loads that you don't find in stores, I get to play with cartridges that no longer have factory ammunition available, and, it just so happens, I save some money doing it (versus buying commercial ammunition).


For some cartridges (like 9mm), I don't save much.
For some cartridges, it's more about the specialty loads (like 215 gr Woodleigh WeldCores in 7.62x54R, or .444 Marlin launching a 437 gr cast bullet of my own desing).
But, for some cartridges, it really does save quite a bit of money. The 7.62x54R with 215 gr Woodleighs is a good example, again: Costs me about $17 to put together a box of 20 rounds. The closest factory offering, with an inferior bullet, retails for $97-140 per box (20) :eek:, depending upon availability and the time of year.


And then there are the wildcats...
That's a whole 'nother can of worms. The short version is that I never would have imagined myself owning four wildcats, even just 10 years ago. But, here I am.
And, unlike 10 years ago, there are actually quite a few companies offering commercial ammunition for some 'popular' wildcats (three of mine qualify). But, even still... I typically "save" 30-70% by loading my own.


------

If you just want to keep the argument on 9mm...
I don't feel like digging through my stuff to calculate everything right now, but last time I ran the numbers, they were roughly:
(based on what I PAID for the components - not current replacement cost, because the market is ridiculous at the moment)
9mm with 'expensive' bullets (JHPs): about $8.50 / box of 50.
9mm with commercial lead bullets (122 gr LFP): $4.89 / box.

The JHP load would probably be over $10 a box.
The load with lead bullets is likely to be at least $2 / box higher now, possibly as much as $3.

...And that's with free brass (range pickup - I never buy 9mm brass) and powder charges under 5 gr.


If you only look at 9mm, it can be difficult to justify the expense of the equipment, and the time required for the task.
But if you reload even a single rifle cartridge (other than .223/5.56 - and didn't shoot crap ammo before), that can completely change. Rifle cartridges are where most people really make the reloading equipment "pay". I average at least a $12 savings per box (20) of rifle ammo, but, often, the difference between my cost and comparable factory ammo is $30-40 per box (well over $1 per round). And, as mentioned above, some loads offer a savings of over $100 per box.
 
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