Complete and Utter Disgrace

Two points.

1. Looks to me as if at least one of the larger flags wasn't a "real" flag not having the stars in the right places.

2. the smaller toothpick sized flags als were probably not authentic reproductions of the original article.
2b. I've seen a similar amount of small flags littering the street following a flag day or 4th of July parade and picnic.

So we are possibly talking about the desecration of a symbol of a symbol.

Anyway here's something from 1 1/2 centuries ago.

God Save the Flag
by Oliver Wendell Holmes

God Save the Flag
Washed in the blood of the brave and the blooming,
Snatched from the altars of insolent foes,
Burning with star-fires, but never consuming,
Flash its broad ribbons of lily and rose.

Vainly the prophets of Baal would rend it,
Vainly his worshippers pray for its fall;
Thousands have died for it, millions defend it,
Emblem of justice and mercy to all;

Justice that reddens the sky with her terrors,
Mercy that comes with her white-handed train,
Soothing all passions, redeeming all errors,
Sheathing the sabre and breaking the chain.

Borne on the deluge of all usurpations,
Drifted our Ark o'er the desolate seas,
Bearing the rainbow of hope to the nations,
Torn from the storm-cloud and flung to the breeze!

God bless the Flag and its loyal defenders,
While its broad folds o'er the battle-field wave,
Till the dim star-wreath rekindle its splendors,
Washed from its stains in the blood of the brave!

If you're going to kneel to the flag you might as well do it right.
 
If the artist truly had courage and the desire to provoke, she would have laid out additional pathways over a Palestinian, or perhaps Iranian flag.

But she and the university both know that insulting Americans carries no risk. The university would never have allowed an insult of Arabs -- and this clearly demonstrates their claims of artistic open-mindedness and courage are an utter sham.
 
If the artist truly had courage and the desire to provoke, she would have laid out additional pathways over a Palestinian, or perhaps Iranian flag.

But she and the university both know that insulting Americans carries no risk. The university would never have allowed an insult of Arabs -- and this clearly demonstrates their utter lack of artistic open-mindedness and courage.
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The test was to see how many people felt strongly enough about their own flag to step around it. Not to see how many people were willing to be disrespectful to a foreign flag.

Believe it or not images that are offensive to Muslims and foreign nations are used in works of art all the time. You just don't hear about it because a bunch of yokels don't start screaming and want people punished.
 
PlayboyPenguin said:
Believe it or not images that are offensive to Muslims and foreign nations are used in works of art all the time. You just don't hear about it because a bunch of yokels don't start screaming and want people punished.
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...all the time? Actually no. I don't believe it.

The universities and media live in genuine and abject fear of insulting Arabs/Muslims, and fall over themselves accomodating their minority needs.

Unlike insulting Americans or Christians, the "artists" and media know they will be in real physical danger, dare they offend Middle Eastern sensibilities. Most Western media were terrified of publishing the Mohammed cartoons, although the cartoon image was essential to understanding the news story.
 
...all the time?

The universities and media live in genuine and abject fear of insulting Arabs/Muslims, and fall over themselves accomodating their minority needs
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Easily as often if not more so than something like the American flag exhibit.

I think it must have been awhile since you have had any art experience on or off a college campus. Artists fear very little.

I saw a painting hanging in a hall here locally not to long ago that had three headless men in muslim dress standing against a wall.
 
Another veteran in full support of freedom of speech.

So far it appears that (at least on this forum) Cool Hand's hypothesis fails to ring true. Of course, your average pro-gun veteran may not be representative of veterans as a whole...
 
It would have made a more interesting "art exhibit" to have the "artist" lay on the floor and see how many people would walk on her. I think if people have the "right" to treat our flag this way then all veterans should have the "right" to beat them to a pulp. As long as they understand that then they can do whatever they want. Or maybe this is not a free country?
 
drail,
Are you suggesting that service to your country should entitle you to physically punish others for insulting your sensibilities?
Your idea of a "free country" insults my sensibilities. Being a war vet, should that give me the "right" to horse-whip you?
 
Pay attention here people!

This wasn't some liberal attack on the flag, there weren't any actual flags!

Would any of you have a problem if I drew a flag on my notebook and then later when it was trash burned the book? Is that burning the flag?

As part of a class assignment, UMF education major student Susan Crane made American flags, some as large as three-foot by six-foot and hundreds of smaller, three-inch by six inches in size, out of red, white and blue vinyl and duct tape to replicate the flag. At 6 a.m. Tuesday, she placed the flags on paper set in a pattern on the floor so pedestrians would need to either walk on the flags or in the maze path to get through the hallway.

Part way through the day, the vinyl on the paper became too slippery, so she took the paper up and left the flags on the floor.

The flag installation was for an art in politics class assignment, taught by Kate Randall, which required students to execute a social experiment. Crane wanted to see if people - mostly students - would walk around or over the flags. Crane videotaped people from the knees down to document their chosen path.

"Ninety-five to 98 percent of the people didn't walk on the flags," Crane said of her findings. The other reaction she was hoping for was one of thoughtful reflection on his or her individual patriotism.
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The experiment showed that even on college campus, one of the more liberal areas of our country 95-98% of the people wouldn't step on an image of the flag!

We should be pleased with this result, not attacking the artist for putting together some red white and blue duct tape!
 
Goslash27. if I spit on your flag with the knowledge that it may cause you to whip me then I deserve it. If I poke a stick into a hornet's nest I deserve to get stung. This is not matter of rights, it's common sense as, Hillary likes to say.
 
"You see, your honor.... he knew that his statement about "freedom" would aggravate me, so he deserved a beating..."

Somehow I think not. At least in my state "reasonable force" may be applied to stop a defacement of my property and nobody sees a stern thrashing as "reasonable". But that's not what we're talking about here unless you're claiming that somebody stole a veteran's personal flag for this display or that veterans have some claim to owning every American flag in existence.

My service does not confer upon me the authority or responsibility to correct your civic shortcomings through violence. Although if it did you would certainly be ahead of the flag burner in line. His behavior merely attacks a symbol, whereas yours attacks the very essence of freedom.
 
The test was to see how many people felt strongly enough about their own flag to step around it. Not to see how many people were willing to be disrespectful to a foreign flag.
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exactly!
i think it was a very positive experiment and outcome.
but even if the majority of people walked across the flag, it would not diminish the artist's (or anyone elses) right to place a flag on the ground,
or burn it for that matter.
thru the course of modern history this country has fought to uphold democracy and freedom of speech. as well as the right to bear arms.
in my "day" there were movements to end wars and impeach presidents. and they were legal!
no one is attacking the usa here!
 
If paying homage to YOUR flag means that I must submit to a beating whenever we disagree, consider it spit upon.

Me, when I joined the military, I agreed to fight to protect people's right to be disrespectful.
 
It really is freedom of expression and has been adjudicated as such in similar demonstrations in the past but I wonder how the UMF would have dealt with nooses on doors or perhaps some of the Islamic cartoon parodies instead of the flag, hate crimes, no doubt.
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I can guarantee that Maine's Attorney General would aggressively pursue that as a hate crime.

A few years ago some moron rolled a pigs head into a mosque in Lewiston, Maine. It was a huge deal, and he got prosecuted for a hate crime. He should of just called himself a performance artist.

I say all this not because I support disrespecting Muslims, but because Maine state government is saturated with white guilt, and would never tolerate this kind of behavior towards a group they perceive to be victims.
 
Goslash27, I sincerely apologize to you. I did not intend to start a heated debate with you or any one else on this forum. I never meant to imply there was a "right" to whip someone because they insulted beliefs held deeply by some people. But I have seen what happens when you push people far enough. Again my apologies if my words offended anyone here.
 
Don't worry Drail, GoSlash gets offended if the temperature changes without permission. :D:eek:

j/k goslash, it was impossible to pass up.....:D
 
A few years ago some moron rolled a pigs head into a mosque in Lewiston, Maine. It was a huge deal, and he got prosecuted for a hate crime. He should of just called himself a performance artist.
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Again, not protected- the mosque wasn't his property, and presumably he didn't have permission to roll a pig head through the room.
 
So I have skipped the majority of the four pages to say this...

It was an enlightening experiment. By the reported accounts 90 - 95% of the people at a university (typically classified as liberals) deliberately avoided stepping on the flags.

We now return to our regular scheduled knuckle dragging.
 
Another veteran in full support of freedom of speech.

So far it appears that (at least on this forum) Cool Hand's hypothesis fails to ring true. Of course, your average pro-gun veteran may not be representative of veterans as a whole...
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I don't recall advancing a hypothesis.

My thinking was changed on the flag desecration amendment after talking to approx. six WWII and Korean era vets. Not a scientifically accurate sample, nor is this thread.
 
Cool Hand,
"I don't recall advancing a hypothesis."
Second, I think most Americans, and virtually all veterans, would agree that showing such disrespect for our flag is contemptable and unAmerican in and of itself.
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Which thus far the majority of us don't.
But as I said, the consensus of us on this forum may not be representative of "veterans" as a whole.
Speaking strictly for myself, the flag is merely a symbol representing America. What's more important is that America represents the ideal of freedom. Behavior that attacks freedom in order to protect the symbol of the symbol of freedom offends me.
In that sense, flag burning is the pinnacle of American expression. dissent is the highest form of Patriotism, and I think it's great that we live in a country where people can do that without fear of being stoned to death.


Derius,
Don't worry Drail, GoSlash gets offended if the temperature changes without permission.
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Only when it goes down. :D

Drail,
I thought I had posted a response to your last already, but it appears not. No worries and the apology wasn't necessary, but I sincerely thank you for the mature civility. I certainly don't show up on L&P expecting to not get offended occasionally ;)
Not even particularly offended; just makin' a point. I also humbly apologise if I gave you the impression that I was of a mind to 'horsewhip' anybody.
 
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