Civil Rights as pertains to Arrest

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"Comply on scene". So at 3AM, I am asleep. Loud banging on my apartment door. Someone yells police. I can't tell if they are real officers or not. I have no need for the police, I didn't call them. My rights are already violated. I either open the door (yes a gun would be in my hand) or call the PD to confirm ( if the cops have the patience to wait and allow me to do that.) Once confirmed. I open the door, get questioned. If I refuse to answer or talk. Then the spidey sense of the officers start to formulate a way to legally enter. Plain view comes into play (say I left a gun mag on the coffee table). Now police can enter and ferret out a reason to search my house. And all because they are at the wrong address. And you expect me to file it under stuff happens. Sorry. The err of caution should always go to the citizens rights. If I research hard, I can prove this wrong address crap happens way to often. Sorry. I understand mistakes happen. Part of that is paying for the mistake.
 
I wonder how long it took from the conclusion of these events until they checked the correct address and discovered it was a prank.
Today 06:49 PM
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DING! DING! DING! You have just asked what may end up as the $2Million (minus legal fees) dollar question:D
 
That'd be an interesting research project. It used to be the majority of the states had a statute indicating that a citizen not only had a right to resist an unlawful arrest, but a duty to do so.
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Bill, I don't know what you are remembering. At common law that isn't the case. The ability to resist an arrest is a fairly recent creature and many states only allow the ability to resist unlawful force (ie the cop is illegally beating you or executing you) not just an arrest that someone deems unlawful. There is an ALR on the subject. I used it in part while doing the research about 7 years ago.
 
"Comply on scene". So at 3AM, I am asleep. Loud banging on my apartment door. Someone yells police. I can't tell if they are real officers or not. I have no need for the police, I didn't call them. My rights are already violated.
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Just wondering, what right would that be?

Do you believe knocking on your door is an illegal search or seizure?
 
The call was a prank, made by some college kids ( This complex is right next to a state university ) Then the address was botched by the dispatcher, and finally wound up getting two guys in trouble for just being at home asleep.
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Uh, no. Brandishing a firearm at police officers got two guys in trouble. End of story.
 
My right the be left alone,'to continue sleeping undisturbed. That right.

If the cops had gone to the CORRECT ADDRESS there would not have been a reason for the citizen to answer his door at 3AM with a gun in his hand for his protection (brandishing as you call it).

Either way the catalyst that set this entire Charlie Foxtrot in motion was cops at the wrong address.

Is is so abnormal for a person to answer his door at 3AM, with some form of protection? You would think professional police officers would understand that. Especially after finding out they were at the wrong place, the man with the gun at his side was a fellow LEO. But no. We have to have a couple of unprofessional chest thumpers (the kind that give good cops a bad name) trying to cover their arse and not giving a crap for a fellow police officer and war vet. That's below pathetic.
 
My right the be left alone,'to continue sleeping undisturbed. That right.
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You mean the cops have no right to knock on your door at 3am?

OK, put a sign up:

"Dear PoPo in order to preserve my rights, please do not knock on my door at 3am, even if there is a gas leak in the neighborhood, my garage is on fire, you found my kid drunk on the steps or the zombie hordes are a mere 50 yards away. I am self reliant American Patriot ;)"

Right way:

KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK

*gurgle snuffle grab 45 shuffle*

Who'se there?

Police Sir, open up

*Look through spyhole, see cop*

OK, wait one

*put gun down in a concealed spot, open door*

Whats up guys, yadda yadda yadd.a...OK goodnight sir....


Wrong way

KNOCK KNOCK KNOCK

*gurgle snuffle grab 45 shuffle*

Who'se there?

Police Sir, open up

Screw you, I know my rights....etc

Cuffs

WildcopsareNOTTHEENEMYFORGODSAKEAlaska TM
 
"Dear PoPo in order to preserve my rights, please do not knock on my door at 3am, even if there is a gas leak in the neighborhood, my garage is on fire, you found my kid drunk on the steps or the zombie hordes are a mere 50 yards away. I am self reliant American Patriot "
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*LOL Giggle snerk*:D
 
That is a bunch of tripe and you know it. I and everyone else has a right to be left alone. Drunk kid, gas leak are legal reasons to me on someone property. That was not the case here. Yes the dispatch sent them to tie wrong place or the cops got confused. ONCE it was determined thatntjey were at the wrong address, all should have done an about face (unless a crime or evidence of a crime was in plain view).

You are just trying to stir the pot here. You and everyone else on this board know what I was saying. If you believe that post off yours, well I don't know what to think.

Pesonally, if I get a knock at 3AM and it's the cops, I will comply only as much as I have to, if it's the wrong address, you betcha it violates my rights, maybe not in your view, but it does in mine.

FWIW, the following is opinion only from an old school peace officer.
According to the info we have, if accurate, here is what should have happened, what I would have done:

Arrive at scene that desk sgt called in. Knock on door announce that I was a police officer and needed to speak with the head of the house. When the door opened and I saw a man with a firearm at his side, I would have drawn and instructed the man to place the firearm down and step back. I would have secured the immediate area, cuffed anyone present and then start questioning. Once I found out that it was the wrong address, I would have released all persons and apologized for the major screw up. NOT arrest someone on a chickencrap charge to cover up a mistake
 
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WA. That is a bunch of tripe and you known...You and everyone else on this board know what I was saying.
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Really...I think your post was clear. You have the right not to be disturbed by the cops at 3am. Are you now saying that there are legitmate reasons for the PoPo to come calling in the middle of the night? If so, see rule 2 below

According to the info we have, if accurate, here is what should have happened, what I would have done:
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Monday morning quarterbacking

Rule 1Hear knock at the door at 3am, OK to grab gun

I Rule2 f you see cops at the door, put the gun down.

WildhowhardisthatandmayisuggestasmalltablewithadrawerneedthefrontdoorAlaska TM
 
Your right and wrong. How do you know that the folks at your door are cops? In an apartment complex you might not be able to see a squad car. I have my old military badge, it's pretty easy to impersonate a cop. Rember the teen in chicago? My point is, and always has, is yes, there are legal reasons for cops to be on your property. No question. But once said cops find out they are at the wrong place, certain things should kick in and happen. In this incident that did not happen.

Dont twist my words and try to paint me as a cop hater or thinking cops are the enemy. I support cops, I just demand that cops take responsibility for the mistakes they make. Just like everyone else has to.
 
I totally disagree----- your rights have not been violated by the Cop's temerity to knock on your door in error while investigating a crime. All this about face nonsense is silly and symptomatic of an attitude of hostility toward police. I don't understand your viewpoint at all. You are bleeding before you are shot. Wild and I have given you a real world view of a situation and you continue to ignore and alter our observations.

Nobody is advocating Gestapo activities by Police. But, for goodness sake stipulate the Police are allowed to constitutionally knock on your door.
 
I believe I did. Post #69

No claiming Gestapo tactics. Just cops in this incident scewing the pooch and trying to save face by charging and ruining a young mans military service


But hey. It's ok. Don't mind me or my opinion. Since it gets in the way of your view.
 
What opinion are you refering to?

AGAIN, THERE IS NOTHING TO BE GAINED BY FIGHTING WITH THE POLICE ON THE SCENE! COMPLY, AND CONTACT YOUR ATTORNEY AND HE WILL DETERMINE YOUR DAMAGES.

If this guy had complied without the attitude this mountain would be the molehill it should be.

Comply on scene". So at 3AM, I am asleep. Loud banging on my apartment door. Someone yells police. I can't tell if they are real officers or not. I have no need for the police, I didn't call them. My rights are already violated. I either open the door (yes a gun would be in my hand) or call the PD to confirm ( if the cops have the patience to wait and allow me to do that.) Once confirmed. I open the door, get questioned. If I refuse to answer or talk. Then the spidey sense of the officers start to formulate a way to legally enter. Plain view comes into play (say I left a gun mag on the coffee table). Now police can enter and ferret out a reason to search my house. And all because they are at the wrong address. And you expect me to file it under stuff happens. Sorry. The err of caution should always go to the citizens rights. If I research hard, I can prove this wrong address crap happens way to often. Sorry. I understand mistakes happen. Part of that is paying for the mistake
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There is always the not refusing to talk to the Police for a couple minutes and the Police realizing their error and saying "Sorry for the intrusion have a good evening" play.



Once I found out that it was the wrong address, I would have released all persons and apologized for the major screw up. NOT arrest someone on a chickencrap charge to cover up a mistake
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Where is the major screwup. That is the problem with your view.

They knocked on the wrong door, so what?

If the offender hadn't escalated the situation it would have been a minor annoyance.
 
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Plain view comes into play (say I left a gun mag on the coffee table).
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The coffee table is in plain view too. Since neither is generally illegal to possess, absent some other circumstance, the presence of either is not grounds for any kind of an involuntary entry or search by police.

Personally I think it was dumb to open the door at all, gun or not. I am not opening my door at 3 am for anyone unless I called for someone to come, or can otherwise verify just who they are.
 
I totally disagree----- your rights have not been violated by the Cop's temerity to knock on your door in error while investigating a crime.
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What crime was committed? As best I can tell the only crime in this incident prior to the cops knocking on the door was a false 911 call.

Everything that happened after that point was a series of mistakes that ended up with the people who made the worst mistakes arresting the people who made very minor mistakes.

BTW, just how does one get charged with public intoxication when you are in your own domicile?
 
Its not surprising that despite a few safeguards in the system, sometimes things happen that should not. Human nature beings being what they are, its rare they will just admit to a screwup of this magnitude. Once the decision is made that they are not going to admit to a screwup, they will do what they have to to protect themselves from the consequences of their own mistakes or misconduct. At that point they care nothing about you, your rights, what is right, or anything else. Just human nature at work.
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While this may be true in a small amount, I don't think it's fair to paint with such a broad brush. LEOs are, for the most part, good guys doing a tough job, and just want to get home safe.
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I am not sure what broad brush you are talking about. Most times cops are indeed the good guys. Now and then they screw up. Sometimes when they screw up they don't want to take the heat for it. Human nature taking over.

The majority of the time if they just said 'sorry, we made a mistake", it would be over and done with. It always seems like it is when they screw up and then try to blame it on someone else that it blows up into a mess like this.
 
Personally I think it was dumb to open the door at all, gun or not. I am not opening my door at 3 am for anyone unless I called for someone to come, or can otherwise verify just who they are.
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And this is the core issue, and the reason I started this thread.

the offender
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Otherwise known as the homeowner, was awakened by a knock at the door at 0300, grabbed his weapon and went to the door to see what the problem was, when he opened the door to verify that it was indeed the police, he suddenly became...

the offender
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I dont think the question is what law he "offended" as much as whom he "offended".

Dash cam video would seem to indicate that there were no " Sparlky blue lights" and only a verbal assertion that it was the police after he asked who was there. Video also shows that he opened the door cautiously, with his gun at "low ready". Once he saw it was the police he asked them to step back and inquired as to what they wanted. This act is apparently what made him...

the offender
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I am as uncomfortable as anyone about this fact as I still do not see why this made a man a criminal, but hopefully as we continue to watch this and discuss it we will all learn something.
 
What crime was committed? As best I can tell the only crime in this incident prior to the cops knocking on the door was a false 911 call
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You know you are right, these guys just weren't at the academy the day we were issued crystal balls. :rolleyes:

Once he saw it was the police he asked them to step back and inquired as to what they wanted. This act is apparently what made him...
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Why would you ask uniformed Police Officers who are investigating a crime to step back? That would be highly suspicious and the first step on the road to being an offender for acting like an offender.

Plus, just in the interest of philosophical karma. I have always stipulated that there is enough blame to go around on this PARTICULAR incident. My observations are made on a general scenario and MY reactions as a Police Officer
 
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