Civil Rights as pertains to Arrest

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The argument to "just call 911 or the local non-emergency number" ignores the reality that there is no sole clearing-house for confirming law enforcement activity for any given area. Meanwhile, the law enforcement personnel knocking are no less law enforcement personnel and will act accordingly depending on why they are there to begin with.

Be safe, by all means, but be reasonable. Reasonable being a component of safe, after all.
 
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i, too, am late to the party, but want to offer up a little knowledge.

1)in the state of illinois, you CANNOT legally resist arrest, even if the arrest is false. 720 ilcs 5/7-7, for wagonman

2)
The thing is if the cops were at the wrong address, chances are the 911 center might not realize where they actually are

In this case that would have been correct, the 911 call came from a different number, had he called to see if, or why the PD was outside, she ( the 911 operator ) would not have had a clue what the guy was talking about.
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i'm sure wagonman will second this..i didn't watch the video so i dunno if the murfreesboro pd did it or not, but..the moment i step out of my squad, i radio dispatch and inform them of the address. if i was dispatched, as they were, i will be repeating that address. if not dispatched, then county now knows where i am at, and that i am no longer in my car. it's all about safety and being able to respond should something bad happens.

3)wagonman has said this before, you don't have to answer the door. i will radio dispatch, ask for a call back, and if one isn't forthcoming and i don't hear what sounds like a crime being commited, i go code and walk away. yes, i cross my fingers and pray i didn't walk away from someone who needed my help, but i have to walk away. if i hear something bad, or believe a crime is being commited and you don't answer, my foot is introduced to the door.


4) as to this case, i believe the police screwed the pooch far more then the Clintons. i believe the younger was in his right, and if the firearm was indeed at low-ready, the cops should've put him on the ground (seems to me they all complied), ran names for warrants, and assuming noone had any, turned everyone loose. that's way simplified, but a general rundown. in this state, however, if they would have refused any at all, resisting becomes a viable charge. all the firearm stuff, well...



that's about all for now. but wagonman said it best i believe...comply today, litigate tomorrow. only makes you look that much better anyway.
 
The initial report leaves something to be desired in terms of specific details. Were they dispatched to the wrong apartment or just end up there?. If I have questions as to the location, I'll try and have the comm center verify the location via a call back but some times folks don't answer on call back so you're stuck with what you have. I think that if I went to a house, identified myself as a cop (and was in uniform we can assume) and someone comes to the door with a gun in hand, I'm going to be a little tense. We'll address it and work out the details later once the cuffs are on and everyone is safe and disarmed. As it is, I think I'm going to a problem of some kind (since I'm responding to a 9-1-1 call) and to my knowledge, I'm at the right house. Is it against the law to answer the door when the cops knock with a gun in your hand? Probably not but it's also not real bright. If he was a military police officer, he should understand that and understand the mindset of the officers coming to the door. Answering with a gun his hand was just stupid. He should be thankful that nobody got seriously injured and write it off as a learning experience. As for the charges, there is nothing specific in the article which would let me judge if the charges were appropriate or not. If he committed an aggravated assault with firearm, then charge him and let the courts work it out. As a decorated military police officer, he above anyone, should know better.
 
Late to the party guys

We are dealing with hypotheticals here, but for background, the 911 dispatcher did send them to the wrong address. Listen to the tape to hear what happened when they arrived, but suffice it to say, one of the officers was less than professional and has been suspended.

We are also assuming, for sake of argument, that the civilians were not able to get a visual on the people knocking on the door, so they could not confirm that they were LEOs. I agree that opening the door with a gun in hand was not a good idea; I would not open the door under any circumstances unless and until I could confirm who it really was. This is why I said I would call 911 to confirm and/or report a potential intrusion.

I am not a lawyer or a LEO, but just because someone knocking on my door in the middle of the night claims that they are law enforcement does not make it so, and I will not open my door until I know for sure. I doubt a jury would convict me on obstruction charges if I did not have a way of knowing, but if they did, so be it.

The fact is, that had the officers on the scene been more professional and less confrontational, this whole scenario could have been avoided. While I don't condone the actions of the former MP, I think he should be given wide latitude because he was otherwise faultless, and the victim of an error.
 
Were they dispatched to the wrong apartment or just end up there?.
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They were dispatched to the right apartment number, just the wrong building
IE: Apt.#5 Campus South versus Apt.#5 Campus North.
 
The apartment number may have been the same, but no matter how you look at it, it was the wrong address.
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Um...Yeah, OK I think that was why I started this thread.;)

Just trying to answer a question.

If he was a military police officer, he should understand that and understand the mindset of the officers coming to the door
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I'm sure that if he had any reason to believe that the knock at the door was LE he probably would not have met the coppers with gun in hand...That's the point, he had no reason to expect police as he nor anyone in his home had called them, and they knocked but did not identify themselves as police until he opened the door to see what the hubub was, at that point it was downhill all the way.
 
The argument to "just call 911 or the local non emerg. number" ignores the reality that there`s no sole clearing -house for confirming LE activity in any given area.
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In this particular case Confirmation could have easily been done if Chilton would have called 911: there`s two questionable LEO`s beating on my door at 0300 which i haven`t called. In conversation with LEO through closed door I simply tell them I`m calling 911,ask for their badge numbers(which if they are LEO,they will give). Call dispatcher, give my name and address,tell him/her that two LEO`s are at my door and give badge numbers. Dispatcher knows where those officer`s are supposed to be,will also know from my phone number that I have not previously called so I`m not the address the LEO`S should be at. Que dispatcher that there`s a problem in which dispatcher calls/radio`s two LEO outside my door. Problem solved! P.S. May I suggest for people here to call their local non-emergency LE office and ask them what we should do if our doors are knocked upon and we`re not sure whether person knocking is LEO or not. Bet they tell ya not to open door without calling 911 1st.
 
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Wow, First let me say that this has been a very interesting and educational thread, and one of the few that I have ever seen go for 6 pages while discussing such a violatile topic that did not turn into a genital waving contest, Good Show :) Imagine, a cordial, round table discussion between LEOs, Lawyers, and Law abiding citizens about a situation that could happen to anyone, at any time, and some sage advice on how to proceed when it does, absolutely awesome.

This case will play out in court, and I will start another thread when things start to get resolved.

What I have learned:

1. If police show up at your door un-expectedly (unless they have a warrant to serve) then you do, in a broad sense, have some rights. But in the narrow sense those rights are gonna take a back seat until business at hand is complete.

2. Make every attempt to satisfy yourself that they are indeed LE. Either visually, or by calling 911 before you open the door.

3. Make sure the officers are aware that this is what you intend so that they will understand a slight delay while everything is proven kosher.

4. Do not open the door with a weapon in your hand, or even visible for that matter.

5. Cooperate within your miranda rights as fully as possible.

6. If the situation is a mistake, as was the case here, simply cooperate at the scene, and call your lawyer later.

While I am still uncomfortable with the police having such broad latitude, that's the way it is. The safest thing is to play the game by the rules, and litigate the rest later.

I will ask the Moderators to close this for now, as we have seen all there is to see for the moment, and will update when new evidence comes to light.
Thank you all for a great learning experience.

Dan E. Bruner AKA OuTcAsT


P.S. This might make a good sticky in T&T ?
 
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