Civil Rights as pertains to Arrest

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Now with that in mind, someone suggested that if you are not sure if it is a police officer at the door (as was this case) that you call 911 to confirm.

I wonder if the officers are going to just stand around and wait for this to happen or...

If you say I am calling 911 to confirm you are the Police then I can wait a couple of minutes for that to occur. However, I might just say "Hey Einstein, look out your window and see the car with the sparkly blue lights.

Unless, I hear fighting or crying or verbal threats from the other side of the door in which case----Game On

Either way, it appears thus far that you have no rights if LE wants to speak with you. You will either comply with the "Reasonable" demand that you submit to a search of you and your premesis, regardless of the situation, or you are going to be a criminal, and charged as such, then litigate it out in court.

The fact that you have no rights in your own home, and to live without fear that this can happen to anyone , at any time. is very troublesome to me.

I may change my mind as this moves forward, but right now it really seems quite screwed up


You do have rights. but, I have to be able to do my job.

The flipside is :

I go to home I hear furniture crashing, "stop hitting me", kids crying, etc but no answer to knocking or someone out of breath cracking the door and saying "everything's fine officer" so I leave without entering house.

One hour later the homicide victim daughter calls 911 because Mommy isn't waking up.

Then I am fired and probably charged and sued.

But, on the bright side I respected the offenders right against illegal search.
 
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Damned if you do and damned if you dont

And no matter what, beat up by a lawyer

Thats why I passed on NYPD so many, many years ago

WildtheessenceoflawenforcementAlaska ™
 
"Hey Einstein, look out your window and see the car with the sparkly blue lights.

LOL :D

You do have rights. but, I have to be able to do my job.

The flipside is :

I go to home I hear furniture crashing, "stop hitting me", kids crying, etc but no answer to knocking or someone out of breath cracking the door and saying "everything's fine officer" so I leave without entering house.

One hour later the homicide victim daughter calls 911 because Mommy isn't waking up.

Then I am fired and probably charged and sued.

But, on the bright side I respected the offenders right against illegal search


Wagonman I hear ya Bro. and I understand (or at least am beginning to) both sides, I respect the fact that there are going to be exigent circumstances, and you gotta do yer job, but in THIS case so many things just went so wrong. I see a slippery slope that could get "messy" when things like this happen, how does one prepare for such an event?

As this comes to light more I may see that I am wrong, but this event, I see these guys as innocent bystanders or:

Damned if you do and damned if you dont

And no matter what, beat up by a lawyer


Yup.
 
The police made a mistake and they compounded it by their actions.

If an arrest is unlawful, then the charge of resisting arrest has no merit and is therefore invalid.
 
I agree police made a mistake and do not want to take responsibilty for their actions. Happens all the time.This is a simple case of officials hiding behind rules and regulations when they do the wrong thing. I guess to serve and protect has no meaning anymore.
 
police made a mistake

This may be true, but has yet to be determined.

Please Guys, this has been a good thread and a useful learning experience thus far, Us Joe citizens have been able to keep a civil discourse with some of our fine LE members and Legal Eagles, please read my initial post.

Not accusing, just want to be clear that this thread is NOT going to be about bashing police.

Thank You !

We now return you to the thread already in progress:)
 
and they way it was presented to me, according to federal law, it is a citizens right to resist unlawful arrest.
That's not federal law nor is it the rule for the majority of states. I think you may have misunderstood your professor (or have a bad professor).
 
That's not federal law nor is it the rule for the majority of states. I think you may have misunderstood your professor (or have a bad professor).

That'd be an interesting research project. It used to be the majority of the states had a statute indicating that a citizen not only had a right to resist an unlawful arrest, but a duty to do so. Apparently many of those laws have gone by the wayside. That used to be the law in Texas (pre-1959) but it is no longer the case.

In some states, even if the officer is way out of line in arresting you, "resisting arrest" is still a crime because some states no longer recognize a right or duty to resist unlawful actions by police.

Note: fortunately such things are generally uncommon WRT police deliberately and maliciously arresting people without any cause.
 
It is my understanding that you don't have the right to resist arrest except in some very very improbable circumstances.

However, as long as HC is in effect there is no real or should I say practical reason to resist arrest.

If you resist arrest I guarantee you will be visiting at least an emergency room.

If you don't resist arrest I guarantee you will earn at least $30,000 a hour for your false arrest incarceration. YMMV
 
Why is the cop in question only facing/on suspension? Where a the assault, wrongful detention, brandishing a firearm and so on?

Did the homeowner handle is bad, I don't know. Maybe he didn't know they were cops until he opened the door. What I don't get is the home owner MAY have made a err in judgement. The cops DID err. And only the homeowner is facing criminal charges. That's not right.
 
It wasn't the policepersons fault that the address was wrong. Therefore I believe they had the right to be on the property and knock on the door. Even though it wasnt the right house the MP pointed a gun at the police, which can never be justified. I would think somone returning from iraq that had been in the military would have enough common sense not to point a gun at the police. I know they supposedly didnt announce themselves but at least after one saw who was at the door, they would stop resisting, and waving a gun around.

You do have a right to not talk to a police officer to an extent (miranda right) and you can also not stop for a officer under one circumstance. That being if a LEO wants to talk to you to question you about somthing for no reason and he doesn't have the right to, you can keep walking and keep your mouth shut. If you, lets say, fit the description of a robber or criminal of some type after a crime was commited and they want to talk to you, you have to stop. Really because the individual really has no way of knowing why the LEO wants to talk to you, without talking to them, your always better off stoping and asking why. If they want to ask you some questions about anything that may invlove you possibly incriminating yourself, they need to read you your miranda rights, regardless of weather or not they have arrested you. They can ask you your name and basic questions about who you are without your miranda rights being read though. I am a student pursuing a CJ degree so bear with me if not everything I say is spot on, I'm still learning. :o

If somone bangs on my door at 3am unannounced, I probably will have a gun nearby. If I see its the police, I damn sure wont be pointing a gun at them. Common sense.
 
the MP pointed a gun at the police, which can never be justified

OK Bear with me here, the video attached to my other post only shows a brief clip of what the homeowner says happened, the longer version which aired in it's entirety showed that the H.O. came to the door and opened it with his weapon at "low ready" once he saw it was LE he backed into the doorway, still not pointing AT anyone, and told the officers to back off, as he had no reason to know why they were there. it escalated from there. once he put down the weapon he was given the "treatment" IE:

If you resist arrest I guarantee you will be visiting at least an emergency room.

I think he got it ;)

IF his story is to be believed, he did not point a gun at anyone, unfortunately that will be up to a judge to decide. I still think he was within his rights and will be aquitted, but that is MHO.
 
I guess ignorance of the law only works one way. So what, the police "thought that they were at the right place". They still, IMO, were in the wrong. Why do some cops get to walk free, continued to get paid for actions that would land a citizen in jail.

FWIW. I am a former MP. And as such, the actions of these officers, if accurate, are criminal. Even if the cops don't get charged, they need to be fired and to never be hired as an LEO again. They don't have the temperment.
 
LE at its most basic is about government using brute force to enforce its edicts.

Its not surprising that despite a few safeguards in the system, sometimes things happen that should not. Human nature beings being what they are, its rare they will just admit to a screwup of this magnitude. Once the decision is made that they are not going to admit to a screwup, they will do what they have to to protect themselves from the consequences of their own mistakes or misconduct. At that point they care nothing about you, your rights, what is right, or anything else. Just human nature at work.

The system almost always protects its own, so don't expect a whole lot of help there either. Some will say that you can sue after the fact, but that is mostly a futile exercise.

The only thing that will save these citizens from the misconduct of the officers involved is the video. Without it, they would be charged, convicted, and sentenced, even though there was no actual credible evidence that they committed a crime, only the say so of the officers involved, who it appears were actually the ones in the wrong.

These kind of incidents are hopefully not real common. And the increasingly common presence of video is going to make these incidents stand out. One has to wonder how many people were unfairly charged before video was common. And even today, video is present at only a tiny fraction of citizen-police encounters. one has to wonder just how common this kind of thing is.

I guess ignorance of the law only works one way. So what, the police "thought that they were at the right place". They still, IMO, were in the wrong. Why do some cops get to walk free, continued to get paid for actions that would land a citizen in jail.
Thats just the way the system is. It sucks but its not real likely to change any.

Realistically, how would you improve it any?
 
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ilbob. The answer is so multi faceted. I agree with most of what you said and have some ideas on how to change things. Non of my which will make a dent in the problem unless the public gets mad (I don't mean violence) I mean outraged enough to demand a change. Right now, no one really cares until it happens to them.
 
You can't "fix" what's not broken. There is not an epidemic of these incidents. Excrement happens. Comply on scene. Litigate later. Problem solved. Unless, you WANT to be an aggrieved party.
 
Its not surprising that despite a few safeguards in the system, sometimes things happen that should not. Human nature beings being what they are, its rare they will just admit to a screwup of this magnitude. Once the decision is made that they are not going to admit to a screwup, they will do what they have to to protect themselves from the consequences of their own mistakes or misconduct. At that point they care nothing about you, your rights, what is right, or anything else. Just human nature at work.


While this may be true in a small amount, I don't think it's fair to paint with such a broad brush. LEOs are, for the most part, good guys doing a tough job, and just want to get home safe.

This case will play out, and we will see how the system works.

Unless the bloviation continues and this thread gets locked, I will continue to watch this with interest, and post updates as they become available.
 
Maybe I've missed where someone was concerned about who actually made the phone call and what happened to them?

The police managed to go to the wrong residence at 3am, get a reaction out of the occupants, and neglect their duties to respond to the correct address.

I'm sure the police could go door to door almost anywhere at 3am and get someone to respond in a defensive manner, but i'd hardly call that a good bust...

The police were the cause of the "problem"
without their incompetence, the officers would have never even met these people
 
Maybe I've missed where someone was concerned about who actually made the phone call and what happened to them?

The call was a prank, made by some college kids ( This complex is right next to a state university ) Then the address was botched by the dispatcher, and finally wound up getting two guys in trouble for just being at home asleep.


:barf:
 
I must have missed that
I wonder how long it took from the conclusion of these events until they checked the correct address and discovered it was a prank.
 
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