Chinese vs Turkish guns!

Well grandpatime you don't know what the hell you are talking about. If you can't see the difference then I feel sorry for you.
 
A real Ithaca with one action bar is a better gun than a crude clone with two.
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You should wait until you have some experience with the Stevens 350 before you call it crude. Many were saying the same thing several years ago about the Hawk 982 and Pardner Pump and it turned turned out to be not true.

The Chinese made Ithaca copy I had was very well made. Here is a picture so you can see for yourself that it is in no way crude. The receiver and internal parts are all machined steel. Nice ghost ring sights, steel heat shield, fit & finish very good, nice very thick polymer stock that isn't hollow and thin like the ones you find on much more expensive shotguns, dual action bars which is a better setup and cost more to manufacture because of the extra machining time on the receiver and machined aluminum trigger guard.

HAWKM37-01.jpg



HAWKM37-2.jpg


GC
 
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Remington 870......

.........has twin action bars. But if the Chinese gun cost $10 less you could save enough to buy a cheap 12-pack of beer and watch the big boys as they toss the pigskin that's probably made in China, wearing their team colors that are probably made in China too. Cheers, boys we saved ten bucks while we contibuted to the destruction of America as we strengthened our rivals! Let's have another round! I dare say that this is a far cry from the America that the Founding Fathers had in mind. Shame on us! SHAME ON US.
 
They need the two action bars because of the cheap steel used in the guns. Seen one at gander Mtn. a few months back, sold for less than $90, a used gun. The barrel was actually swaged open to take the choke tubes. Could not use steel shot in it.

Its easyer to machine a lower grade of steel and it's easyer on the tooling too. Quality steel costs more money and takes more to machine. What good is two action bars if they do not equal the strength of one made from quality steel?

By the way Ithaca never used aluminum in the model 37, they were all steel.
 
Its easyer to machine a lower grade of steel and it's easyer on the tooling too. Quality steel costs more money and takes more to machine. What good is two action bars if they do not equal the strength of one made from quality steel?
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The fact is that all steel is machined before it's heat treated when it's softer. The steel used on the 37 copy is very high quality firearm grade steel. Savage Arms thinks so they have added the 37 copy to their Stevens lineup. All the same things were said about the made in China Hawk 982 and Pardner Pump shotguns and the Norinco 1911 pistol by people with very little to no experience with them. It all proved to be false.

What's funny is some of the ones making the false claims now own a Hawk Ind made shotgun.


GC
 
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Pathfinder45...

The imported Hawk 982 (which I own) is a great gun.
It also cost me $220 new, compared to $325 to $350 for a new 18.5 inched 870 EXPRESS with NO GHOST RING SIGHTS and PLASTIC TRIGGER GUARD.

Go price and handle one.
 
If I decide to get another shotgun......

.......I'd probably go back to the Portland gunshow and pick up another model 1912 Winchester since I've seen a number of excellent deals on them lately. There's nothing in me that just has to have, "brand new, only". I'm not sure what to think of this:
I think that's why the Winchester model 12 was never successful. Too many bent action bars.
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According to a take-down manual I have, the model 1912 Winchester hit the million-units-made mark sometime in 1946. By 1963, nearly 2 million were made. Along with the most modern version called the model 12, well over 2 million were made. I would say that's highly successful. Wouldn't you? As far as the bent action bar allegations go, I can say that mine looks to be original and I have had no problems with it myself. I've only had it a little over a year; but it is 96 years old. Perhaps someone here that has more experience and knowledge about this matter could comment reliably about, "bent action bars". So far, I am delighted with my Winchester. No buyer's remorse on this one!
 
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Reason's to not buy a Chineese or Turkish gun....

#1. Pump action American made shotguns are relatively inexpensive

#2 In General products from China and for that matter Turkey are of lesser quality

#3 So many things today don't seem to be made here at all, Cell phones immediately come to mind. Isn't it nice that we still make some quality products here and therefore should try to support those companies.

#4 Now more than ever; I don't give a dead rat's ass if if some guy in China has a job, I do care very much if a fellow American does.
 
If H&R/Marlin/Remmington want to produce a "Chi-Com" shotgun then that is their business decision. Some of the cry babies here probably drive full sized Dodge Trucks - MADE IN MEXICO - Would you rather drive a Toyota truck made in Tennessee/USA or an obama/fiat/UAW Dodge made in mexico? Now to the important points. The Remmington current production "Express" shows a lack of pride and is subject to jamming. The H&R Pardner pump is more reliable and every bit as good as the 870. Sad but true. You will find nothing bad said by any actual owners only praise. The 870 or die crowd get their panties all twisted up if you even mention Mossberg let alone a Norinco. I buy only American cars made in America but now there is obama/UAW GM and obama/fiat/UAW Dodge and (for now) Ford. So I would be most inclined to buy a Ford. The Norinco guns made by the Chi-Coms - 1911 or AK or SKS or "870"/Pardner are all good reliable guns worth every penny. They know how to make guns. The gun shop I use told me they sell many, many Pardners and have for years and have never had a single one come back. Ask your gun shop or an actual owner and they will tell you the Pardner is a great shotgun. Winchester/Browning/FN make guns in Turkey. The Winchester SX3 is as reliable as any shotgun made. I don't hear much complaint about Winchester/Browning/FN. The 1300 aka SXP is made in Turkey and is a good pump. Get what you want but in Corporate America/the world there are fewer and fewer good guys making firearms that are not conglomerations of many companies- Ruger and Henry Come to mind and I own those and will for sure buy more.
 
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sorry but the norinco made 97 even though it built to ahlmans specs is still no winchester. neither is the ithica copies. to insist they are as good is just plain silly. tell me you are on the bottom of the wage ladder and simply cant do anything else and i will understand. but you are not fooling anybody but yourself. bob
 
Don't know about the 97 or the Ithica. I believe the SASS users have to work on the Norinco guns but they use them.
Do know about the H&R/Marlin/Remmington Pardner. Show me one unhappy Pardner owner. Other than the made in China issue they are good guns. The guns made in Turkey are good guns as well - Stoeger/Benelli 2000 and the Winchester/Browning/FN SXP.
 
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