Chinese vs Turkish guns!

your in look mate........here in england we have imports coming in for years now.....some of the turkish makes are good....tryed and tested here in the uk..hatsan escorts are big hitters here only costing around £300 brand new..semi autos..

chinese guns are not available here though....
although the italians make excellent shotguns at good prices..:)
 
Okay the market seems to be getting more and more saturated with chineese and turkish made shotguns.

Which of the two makes the better pump and better autoloader and which models?
Click to expand...

Mama Mia!! Whatsamatterwhichyou?? Never heard of Beretta, Benelli?

Stick with Italiana!
 
Back to Superdave and his original inquiry.

I have experience with the Pardner Pumps and the Hawk/Interstate 982 and they are excellent guns. PERIOD.

I do not have any info on the semi's as I prefer to rack a slide .

Racking the slide gives me a warm fuzzy and I've had more than my share of misfeeds with semi's to trust a hunt or my life to them when needed.

Those misfeeds occurred with DOMESTIC offerings.

I have heard anything bad about the semi's that are imported toeven give a comment.
 
Last edited:
Hi, new guy here, and I'm just gonna jump in with both feet. :)
A little LGS has both the Turkish made Escort and the Chinese Pardner Pump Protector, and here's a couple of observations.
The Pardner is a LOT heavier than the Escort, and the Escort seemed smoother when I worked the action.
That being said, I bought the Pardner.
It was a hundred bucks cheaper and it's an 870 clone, so all the 870 furniture and other frills will fit it. The barrel is the only thing that I know of that won't interchange.
 
Yes, I would suggest a domestic make over a foreign gun truth be told,
but will also say that there is not a danged thing wrong with the Hawks, Pardner Pumps, Interstates, or other makes of Chinese origin, other than the fact that some folks, who have no objective experience with these guns, find it easy to slam them because of the fact that they are made in China or whereever else in the world.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with those cheap imported POS if you like initial purchase price over long term quality......and it seems you are one who bases your decision based on that criteria. Read my sig line and you'll see MY preference

As far as other countries, Italy, England, Belgium all make great guns.....
 
Cheap, reliable shotgun.

Pump shotgun, $265.00, made in America, by Americans, and for Americans. The stocks are American Black Walnut; the metal is all steel. Except for the recoil-pad it's nothing but steel and Walnut. It's a Winchester, of course, model of 1912. This particular specimen is as reliable as the day it was built in spite of the fact it is 96 years old. Imagine how many times it may have changed hands and consider that every time it's been sold, those dollars are still in this country. Cheap imports are bleeding our hard earned dollars out of the country, weakening America, devastating American jobs, compromising American sovereignty and will ultimately destroy not only the Second Amendment but also the rest of the Constitution as the, "Land of the Free", is reduced to servitude to the nations that have lent those U.S. Dollars back to us. Imported goods are supposed to have sufficient tariffs on them so that they can't compete with American made products so that only the wealthiest people can afford imports. And that's how the government is supposed to EARN it's keep, supporting domestic production rather than taxing YOUR earnings. Free trade is not fair trade. Buy American while you still can. If you are not an American you are excused. All countries ought to protect their laboring classes the same way. "So, let's see; should I get the Winchester, or the Norinco? Duhhhhh......"
 
Last edited:
The Norinco is a good shotgun and if I could find a Model twelve for 265.00, I'd buy it in a minute, but that's besides the point!

I don't know what you are putting in you pipe and smoking but Model 12's in ANY form command a hefty price in these parts.

Being since you are so well versed in economics, tell us all why the model 12 is not being made any more.

And why are all the gun makers going overseas to import what we should be making ourselves with our own people?

You folks seem to take delight in making yourselves look like the very folks who would deprive us from our right to own firearms.

Continuing to bring division in this forum serves no one and the guns questioned are made and imported by American companies.

To conclude, no one who likes and uses the imports have attacked you who seem to have America's best interest in mind with such uninformed remarks.

If you don't like the gun, don't buy it! And show some respect to folks who come here to ask, with good intentions, about guns that are in their financial reach.

The smug remarks smack of elitism and I, for one , resent that someone would try to tell me what I should buy or not buy regarding my choice in firearms.

This is America, Isn't it?!?!
 
Last edited:
"The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory.” - Aldo Gucci ":rolleyes:

You Sig line is real cute, oneounceload.

I, in my working career, have been involved in building, maintaining and now overseeing the quality of this nations propulsion systems on Naval vessels for better than 33 years.

I know metals, how to check tolerances, understand fatigue rates, M.T.F.R. and am capable of judging, objectively, the quality of items I buy from time to time.

I am also able to discern when a person makes a fool out of himself with uninformed remarks about a product they no absolutely nothing about.

You have done a real good job of that and should be commended for you lack of objectivity.

Any more cute sayings to impress us with?:barf:
 
Winchester model 12

I got my model 1912 Winchester at the Portland gun show. I used to think I'd never find one for less than 400 bucks. But lately I've seen several between 300 and 400 dollars with a few under 300, all at the Portland Expo. I'm looking at my receipt now. The folks from GUNTRADERS in Redmond, OR had come and I saw this shotgun on their rack. They were asking $265.00 for it but I tested the waters and found that they weren't firm on the price. They actually sold it to me for $225 plus $10 NICS fee. That was on 12/19/2008, slightly over a year ago. I've seen at least two for under $300 at the last show before Christmas '09.
Being since you are so well versed in economics, tell us all why the model 12 is not being made any more.
Click to expand...
I don't know much, but I believe that the model 12 would cost so much more than the Remington 870 which is a darn good shotgun at a ridiculously low price.
And why are all the gun makers going overseas to import what we should be making ourselves with our own people?
Click to expand...
Alright, YOU asked, so I'll try to keep it brief: In this country we have wage laws, child labor laws, environmental protection laws, and labor unions. And our Constitution recognizes that we have rights as citizens. But free-trade agreements allow our industrialists open factories in countries that have no such protections and then import those goods without tariffs. Thus an otherwise identical product can be offered to the consumer at a fraction of the cost it would have been if manufactuered here while at the same time generating greater profits to the manufucturer as they continue with massive lay-offs and plant closures at home. That, "better price", that allows the consumer's daughter to have a shoe collection resembling Emelda Marco's does not come without consequences. This is unfair competition that is strengthening another country while damaging our own so that SOME of us can get rich. I was under the impression that the Constitution authorized the government to place tariffs on imports to protect America and Americans from this very thing.
The smug remarks smack of elitism and I, for one , resent that someone would try to tell me what I should buy or not buy regarding my choice in firearms.
Click to expand...
You can buy whatever you want, just don't kid yourself that there aren't any consequences. Some people post questions here because they WANT others to tell them why or why not to buy this or that. If you like an import, I say buy a used one as the damage is already done.
This is America, Isn't it?!?!
Click to expand...
Yes, but it's ideals have been badly eroded on some fronts. But back to shotguns......There are lots of really good used shotguns at great prices. Now if only I could find a nice 1886 Winchester RIFLE that I could afford.....:rolleyes:
 
Okay, we are getting a little hostile here.


My question was legitimate. In a few years I am certain mossberg and remington will both be made outside of the united states. It is inevitable!

So eventually we will all be forced to buy guns made in sweat shops.
 
Superdave,
You are correct, it always gets stupid in this forum with guys who hijack threads that try to steal a persons joy or rank them because of their choice of firearm.

The NEF Pump gun is a very good shotgun and gives up nothing in quality and folks are catching on and buying them up.

I'm not advocating "buy Chinese or Turkish", I'm advocating buy "quality".

It is imported by an American company that has been building firearms for many years that was almost sued out of bussines by some idiot trial lawyers representing some guy who was trying to win a Darwinian award by altering a single shot to shoot high pressure rifle loads.

The enemy, in that situation, was an idiot who did not need to handle firearms and a trial lawyer who smelled blood and cashed in on someones stupidity. The enemy at this juncture was within.

The argument posed by these individuals is moot because just about eveything is made overseas and when they hijack a thread, that don't back up their comment with facts.

They spew derision and it serves no one and frankly, I will call them out any time they pull this childish ploy.

The only consequence in my decision to buy an imported firearm is having to deal with the flamethrowers on this forum who haven't got a clue about what they are talking about or the decency to respect others on this board with their uninformed remarks.
 
Last edited:
Brand new Remington 870

Here in Oregon you can get a brand new Remington 870 for under $270.00. Try BiMart, they frequently have sales on them. Only problem is that it's not made in China or Turkey, so I guess that disqualifies it. I believe my comments have been civil. I have never accused someone of smoking weird substances or that they haven't got a clue....
what we should be making ourselves with our own people
Click to expand...
You said it. Now if you really think that a foreign made shotgun is going to make you happier than an American gun then have at and be happy. It's your money. I doubt that any of us are without some level of guilt in this free-trade thing. I'm not condemning; I'm just saying........
 
I believe the Chinese are way ahead of the Turkish shotguns on durability but the Turkish shotguns have a nicer finish than most Chinese shotguns.

The problem with some of the Turkish made semi autos & pump shotguns is the durability of the internal parts. There has been problems with locking blocks, firing pins and shell latches breaking. I don't know if it's the steel they are using or how they are heat treated.


GC
 
Last edited:
i have both a original win 97 from the fifties, and a chinese copy from ahlmans. the chinese copy is not near as smooth on the INSIDES where it counts. screw threads etc are more of a blacksmith nature than a refined firearm. bobn
 
the chinese copy is not near as smooth on the INSIDES where it counts. screw threads etc are more of a blacksmith nature than a refined firearm. bobn
Click to expand...

The 97 copies made in China where built under a set budget by the importer IAC and others. If they wanted a higher quality 97 copy they could have paid more to make it happen. That would have also increased the retail price.

GC
 
wow jlv08 - now THOSE were some very immature comments from someone who seems to have no knowledge about the subject at hand, but then your attacks are typical from someone who neither the knowledge nor the skill necessary....and your use of the sarcastic eye rolling is SO mature....not
 
Generally the importer sets the standard. Not with respect to how the gun is made but rather how much he wants to spend. It depends on the market he hopes to capitalize on and make a buck.

Turkey has made some really nice guns for years. Although Kimber had some problem with their Turkish side lock over/unders they were well made and retailed here in the states for around $4,500.00. I doubt you could find the same quality of craftsmanship in a gun for twice the price from Germany, Italy, Austria, etc.
 
Win71 - excellent points - it is not only in the gun realm....wally world does it all the time. Many folks look only at the initial price and not at the long term cost - that might work for a toothbrush, but not necessarily for a gun. Kimber had issues with theirs, as did DeHann, some were QA/QC, some were just contractual.

Super Dave - I find it ironic that you didn't want to go to an American store nearby because you want to support local mom and pop store, yet you'll buy something made overseas, not supporting any US workers.......
 
Jlv08 ....if you think the NEF pump gun represents quality ...boy have you got to learn about shotguns - especially pump guns, in my opinion.

The NEF, in my opinion, has a fit and finish that isn't even suitable in the dark .....

My definition of "quality" - is a gun that should reliably be able to fire 5,000 shells a year / for at least 10 yrs / hopefully 20 yrs. If you think the NEF pump gun will do that / contact us in 10 yrs and let us know. I don't think the NEF will hold up to 15,000 shells without a major problem in 3 years or 10 years for that matter.

There is very little to come out of Turkey or China, in terms of shoguns, machine tools, woodworking tools, hand tools, etc. that is worthy of a high quality comment, in my opinion. The quality of the metallurgy alone coming out of china - is suspect at best and in my opinion, most of it is disposable at best after only a few uses ......castings, steel, etc ..

You're free to buy whatever you want / and so is super-dave ....if you want to discuss quality in a pump gun look at the Browning BPS ( imported from Japan ) or one of the Rem 870's in the upper end of their lineup like the Wingmaster / where $ 500 - $ 750 will get you a quality pump gun / that will run for 100,000 shells without a problem, in my opinion. They have set the standard for quality / come back in 10 yrs with your NEF and let us know how many you had to buy - to fire 10,000 shells let alone 100,000 shells.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top