CCW with a single action

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They have reviewed their options and alternatives and came to the conclusion that even with all the better options available they can STILL use the single action better than any other alternative they have. - I consider this the most likely option.
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That's possible. More likely I think, are---
  • Their ideas of how a "gunfight" begins, occurs, and is ended come from screen fiction
  • They are prohibited from possessing a firearm that uses fixed ammunion, but insist on carrying concealed anyway
  • They do not take the defensive aspects of concealed carry very seriously

Of course, it is not really possible to observe what someone does and understand why, and there are other possibilities.

I would be interested in how many people started out with the idea of carrying a single action revolver concealed for purposes of self-protection and stuck with it after having availed themselves of some good defensive pistol shooting training.

Replicas of what could have been carried concealed in the day:
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The Lightning was double action. None of the others existed "in the day".

I think it is a fallacy that a hammer spur gets caught on clothing during the draw, since my thumb is held behind the hammer, ready to come up over and cock.
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That, of course, is the prescribed method for drawing a revolver with an exposed hammer, though with a DA it is considered imprudent to cock the hammer.

It is more difficult with a Model P hammer than with, say, a Chief's Special.
 
The Lightning was double action. None of the others existed "in the day".
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Historically yes, but the Uberti Lightning is single action ( I own two in 38 Special), identical to the Model P Jr except for grip frame. I show it as a sample of what is available today and better suited to concealed carry than the big irons typical of single action guns. I read that the original Lightning action was not reliable, so that could explain Uberti ignoring it for reproduction purposes, still getting the period look of the thing.
 

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The only person I saw carrying a SA gun was in the boonies in TX. He was the local deputy. It was after an advanced handgun class. The class went to BBQ in a small joint. We had a reserved room for us. About 12 guys, all with concealed higher capacity semis. The deupty is wearing a big old cowboy hat and had a nickled SAA (or so it seemed) with a belt of rounds hung under his substantial belly. He gave us all the tough guy stink eye. If we were desperadoes - those six rounds, well ...

The debate is silly. I once drove across country in a old V-8 Pontiac with no AC in the summer time. Now I can in a nice SUV with AC and electronics. A concealed slingshot might work if you are David.

I agree that idea that the person carrying it must be skilled beyond belief with it as compared to other guns, is simply Internet posturing.
 
One assumption that seems to have been made several times on this topic is that SA shooters are more accomplished than others with different types of handguns.
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Nope. The assumption should be that the individuals in question are more accomplished with single actions than any other handgun type.

In comparison with other designs, yes. The extra step required between shots is one issue. The popularity of the single action revolver fell very rapidly when better choices became available.
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It's not really an issue and I think five shots in well under two seconds is pretty quick. Popularity is irrelevant.

The hammer configuration mitigates against a smooth draw from concealment.
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No it doesn't.

Their ideas of how a "gunfight" begins, occurs, and is ended come from screen fiction
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That's comical. This is true regardless of chosen platform and not necessarily more applicable here than any other discussion. I sure as hell don't do it because of a movie. The fantasy here is that somehow the perception of the single action revolver has become that of a quaint range toy. Those of us who use them regularly know just how foolish this is.

They are prohibited from possessing a firearm that uses fixed ammunion, but insist on carrying concealed anyway
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Well no one has referenced blackpowder guns here.

They do not take the defensive aspects of concealed carry very seriously
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Of course not. If t hey don't make the same choices as you then how could they be taken seriously??? It's not like they have a single action defensive class at Gunsite or anything. :rolleyes:

Replicas of what could have been carried concealed in the day:
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Those are good examples of what one might choose to carry today.

The debate is silly.....I agree that idea that the person carrying it must be skilled beyond belief with it as compared to other guns, is simply Internet posturing.
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I can see how a San Francisco lawyer might think that but shot timers don't lie. There's a lot of posturing going on. I think I'm in a better position to judge my own skill level than anyone "posturing" on the internet.
 
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David was confident with his skill with a sling shot.

Have you run a SAA gun with simunition rounds in a realistic FOF scenario or two? Range times are nice when drawing against the static square target. OldM is discussing actual utility compared against modern guns.

Any gun works in the good ol', draw the gun and wave it around in the no shots fired DGU. A flintlock might work. So what?
 
The assumption should be that the individuals in question are more accomplished with single actions than any other handgun type.
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Forget about the "assumption". The question is, why on earth would anyone today choose a single action revolver with which to become accomplished for concealed defensive carry?
 
Here's five shots in three secs with full power .454. Not exactly the same thing but it puts things in perspective when the speed of CAS shooters is disregarded.

https://youtu.be/5F71SPRFr_Y

Have you run a SAA gun with simunition rounds in a realistic FOF scenario or two?
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Have you? I'm speaking from experience, are you?

The question is, why on earth would anyone today choose a single action revolver with which to become accomplished for concealed defensive carry?
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I think some members here have been trying to explain that to you but apparently you cannot accept any choice that differs from your own. I don't know if you realize this or not but concealed defensive carry is but one of many purposes for a handgun. The question is why would someone spend all day working with a single action and then strap on a Glock just to go to town for a loaf of bread? Why would someone shoot tens of thousands of rounds a year through one platform and then carry another that is of absolutely no interest to them? Not everybody lives in the suburbs, works in a cubicle and loves Glocks.
 
Here's five shots in three secs with full power .454. Not exactly the same thing but it puts things in perspective when the speed of CAS shooters is disregarded.

https://youtu.be/5F71SPRFr_Y
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LOL, five shots in three seconds at FIVE yards!. Do you really think the bear is going to stand there at 5 yards while you take shots? He could cover that five yards in a blink of any eye, so forget the 5 shots, you only made one.....maybe!
 
Here's five shots in three secs with full power .454.
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Fine. A novice using a service semiautomatic can shoot three controlled rounds in a second, and trained shooters double that.

How fast might one need? An assailant closing in from a short distance can cover five meters in one second. How many hits Smith be required to hit anything important within his body isa matter of chance.

Have you [(run a SAA gun with simunition rounds in a realistic FOF scenario or two??)]
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Glenn is quite experienced in realistic FoF training.

I don't know if you realize this or not but concealed defensive carry is but one of many purposes for a handgun.
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Of course.

The question is why would someone spend all day working with a single action and then strap on a Glock just to go to town for a loaf of bread? Why would someone shoot tens of thousands of rounds a year through one platform and then carry another that is of absolutely no interest to them?
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Simple--to choose the right tool for the task at hand.

I like shoot a .22 target semi-automatic and a big DA Smith, I used to like to shoot a Colt 1851 replica and my old .45 SAA, but I would not choose to carry any one of them concealed for self defense.

Not everybody lives in the suburbs, works in a cubicle and loves Glocks.
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I don't work in a cubicle, and I don't like Glocks very much.
 
Jackmoser65 you make a compelling argument. The video is impressive.

Just for the record, I do not live in the suburbs or work in a cubicle. I would not consider a SA revolver for concealed carry though unless it was my only option. I'm curious how fast those 5 rounds could be put on target from a concealed carry position? What if only one hand was free? What if it was not the dominant hand?

EDIT: There are many handguns I prefer to Glock, and they are all better suited to self-defense defense than any SA revolver in my opinion.
 
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When I spoke earlier about having a realistic idea about how of how a "gunfight" (a defensive gun use incident that actually requires shooting) begins, occurs, and is ended, I was contrasting reality with many people's preconceptions. Not being critical here--I have "been there and done that" myself.

The first two of those--the beginning and the encounter itself--can be learned from FoF exercises of the kind mentioned by Glenn. One gains an appreciation of what it takes to respond to an unanticipated encounter at close range and to score several hits timely on a rapidly moving target.

Neither training nor practice can tell us much about how that "gunfight" will end, but Massad Ayoob tells students to read Gray's Anatomy and to keep it in reach for reference. FBI studies on handgun wounding effectiveness can be helpful too. But the so called "shot placement" needed to effect a physical stop timely is more a matter of serendipity than of design, and there are so many variables that no one incident is likely to be representative of the next.

That, and the incident dynamics that one sees in FOF training, are why, when one watches the "Training in Context" segments of The best Defense, and when one watches Joe Mantegna demonstrating the use of the FBI's handguns at the FBI Gun Vault, and when one sees series LEO handgun training, one sees very rapid controlled fire--several shots per second with combat accuracy.
 
LOL, five shots in three seconds at FIVE yards!. Do you really think the bear is going to stand there at 5 yards while you take shots? He could cover that five yards in a blink of any eye, so forget the 5 shots, you only made one.....maybe!
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I'm waiting for your video showing how you can do better.

Fine. A novice using a service semiautomatic can shoot three controlled rounds in a second, and trained shooters double that.
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That's five shots of factory 454 Casull, not 38 special or 45 acp. As i said before, my own time for five shots from leather is well under 2 secs.

Glenn is quite experienced in realistic FoF training.
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With SA's? As I said there are always lots of folks weighing in (heavily) on this subject who have never put any time whatsoever into single action revolvers, let alone developing any skill with them.

I like shoot a .22 target semi-automatic and a big DA Smith, I used to like to shoot a Colt 1851 replica and my old .45 SAA, but I would not choose to carry any one of them concealed for self defense.
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With all due respect, this ain't about your choice, is it? This is about the guy that chooses single action revolvers as every day working guns simply extending the use of those guns to all purposes for which a handgun is appropriate.

I don't work in a cubicle, and I don't like Glocks very much.
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Simple generalizations. The Glock is just the ubiquitous example of what one might consider a "modern" defensive handgun.

There are many handguns I prefer to Glock, and they are all better suited to self-defense defense than any SA revolver in my opinion.
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That's a decision that all individuals must make for themselves. I'm not trying to sway anyone's choice but only convey why some might choose differently.
 
There are many handguns I prefer to Glock, and they are all better suited to self-defense defense than any SA revolver in my opinion.
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The OP never asked which type of gun was better. You are responding to a hijack. People carry what they want to, and we'll hope with some proficiency.

The typical single action is not easy to conceal in my opinion, and I think that is the real issue. It is easy enough to find videos of people incredibly skilled with cowboy guns and Blackhawks (CAS), some shooting with each hand.

My single actions include the smaller frame guns, and I have holsters that aid in carrying them tight to the body, strong cant to hide the grip. Concealment nowadays, especially in younger people, is more about how one chooses to dress, and then guns and ammo getting smaller and smaller. Seasonal dress would be a factor too.
 
That, and the incident dynamics that one sees in FOF training, are why, when one watches the "Training in Context" segments of The best Defense, and when one watches Joe Mantegna demonstrating the use of the FBI's handguns at the FBI Gun Vault, and when one sees series LEO handgun training, one sees very rapid controlled fire--several shots per second with combat accuracy.
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When you get back to the original topic of this post, it really ain't about what trained personnel can do with a semi auto. It's about what an individual can do with one platform versus another. Which is a very different discussion. No one is advocating replacing all semi autos with Colt SAA's. However, there are individuals who are better armed with an SAA than any auto pistol. Further, you would not want to test your pet theory on them either. They use them every day and are much more intimately familiar with them than the average Joe and his plastic fantastic that he might shoot once a week at the most.
 
However, there are individuals who are better armed with an SAA than any auto pistol.
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I don't question this statement. I'm confident that someone who carries and shoots a SA revolver daily to the exclusion of any other handgun would be better armed with the SAA. That is not the same as saying a SAA is a good choice for concealed carry though. I believe OldMarksman is right that any way you spin it, it is not a great choice considering the options. Why would you not spend a little time with a weapon better suited to concealed carry for personal defense?

While we're on the subject, saying an SAA in a belt holster on your hip, covered by an open sports coat is concealed is like me saying my pickup is an economy
vehicle.
 
K_Mac said:

While we're on the subject, saying an SAA in a belt holster on your hip, covered by an open sports coat is concealed is like me saying my pickup is an economy
vehicle.
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Describe the gun in this photo, please:



Bob Wright
 
Bob Wright I can describe the gun and holster in great detail, having seen it pictured here many times.:)

As you know it certainly can't be seen in the photo. You may be fine with that coat as a carry garment where you live, but in many places you would be likely to find trouble. In Illinois if someone happens to see you carrying because of the wind or your movement, you would have a hard time convincing a police officer that you are carrying concealed.
 
Since when is a sportcoat not a viable concealment garment?

An SAA sized revolver is no more difficult to conceal than any full sized auto pistol.
 
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