CCW Class...How They Have Changed.

Not allowed to bring husbands or boyfriends. But must be bring someone else. Several reasons. I do not need her man's machismo on the range. I am a married man and do not need any reason for suspicion. I am a Christian man and don't need those whispers going around.

As far as the machismo, some men cannot accept that someone can teach a woman better than they can. But far more than that is the, "She can't do that." These guys who think a woman can handle a 25 acp and not much more. Horse crap, I've taught women to handle my Glock 23 and my Glock 26 extremely well. The SIG P250 (my favorite gun to teach with when we step to 9mm) and the 9mm Shield, no problem. For most a 1911 is not an issue.

One young lady, one my wife and I took under our wing at 19, I gave her a 10/22 for those two years. I taught her with a 357 3" GP-100 starting with wadcutters and ending with full power 125's. Then at 21 I gave her that gun. My pastor thanked me for looking out for her.

Then I taught him and his wife. I made it very clear, he was the teacher in church but I am the teacher on the range. He made some faces as I taught her right left Barricades then shoot and scoot, but he said nothing.

But these women, the 19 years old and the pastors wife and a few others that wanted to go that far, they know how to make space, how to deliver a stunning distracting blow, and how to break every kind of choke hold in every position. They know how to tactically withdraw, use obstructions in their attackers path, and how to move their ASSets.
 
armednfree said:
But these women, the 19 years old and the pastors wife and a few others that wanted to go that far, they know how to make space, how to deliver a stunning distracting blow, and how to break every kind of choke hold in every position. They know how to tactically withdraw, use obstructions in their attackers path, ...
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Those are techniques and tactics for more advanced classes. This thread is about CCW classes and how they may have changed. Please stay on topic.
 
armednfree said:
Ability, opportunity, Jeopardy and Preclusion. That is a change from the original entirely safety based class.
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I have no idea what "preclusion" even means, and I have no idea how any of those words apply to changes in CCW classes. If you are trying to say that CCW classes in your state have changed to now cover these things (whatever they refer to), it would be helpful if you would explain.

I took my CCW class twenty years ago in my home state. The requirement then was the same as it is now: the NRA Basic Pistol class. And that hasn't really changed. The NRA flirted with changing to an on-line course, which was not well received (and which was never approved by my state for satisfying the CCW class requirement). So CCW classes have not changed here for at least twenty years.
 
Preclusion-preventing something from happening. Is there a reasonable way to take action other than use of deadly force? I.E. could you safely escape? Ohio has a duty to retreat except in your home or vehicle. That is very definitely part of the course. It is linked to the other factors.

Now, how much and to what level it is required to be taught I cannot say. Instructors do have a rather wide latitude in the class. Since they have 8 hours to do what can be taught in less than two they have to fill it.

I do know it's one damned sorry instructor that teaches anything to do with use of force that does not teach these basic elements. These are four basic questions that have to be asked in any use of force situation.

Until very recently Ohio required you to make an affirmative defense in such a situation. You needed to articulate in a manner a reasonable person would agree on all these four points. Now if you know this person, have dealt with him in the past, or have some knowledge of him you can toss in propensity.
 
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I suppose my perceptions and opinion have been heavily influenced by the fact that my state requires the NRA Basic Pistol class as the CCW class. Not NRA First Steps, not Personal Protection in the Home, not Personal Protection Outside the Home ... Basic Pistol. I'm NRA certified to teach that class, so I know what it covers and what it doesn't cover. I also know that if you don't follow the NRA course lesson plan ... it's not the NRA course and, properly speaking, you're not allowed to call it that or issue an NRA certificate of completion.

And the NRA Basic Pistol class doesn't cover tactics, "preclusion," or legal issues. Those are reserved for more advanced classes, such as the two Personal Protection ___ classes. Those both include a module on the state's gun and self-defense laws, and the NRA requires that the legal module be taught by an attorney licensed in the jurisdiction.

[Note: Technically, my state's requirement is the NRA Basic Pistol class or other curriculum approved by the State Police. As far as I know, only one person has gotten his own course approved, and he conveniently happens to be a retired state police officer.]
 
armednfree

When I first came to live in Florida. 2004 Dec. I was thinking of teaching. But the program that I observed had 50 students, one live round fired into a bin of sand. Taught at a Gun Show.

I met a friend of my Sons, who had taken that Gun Show course. He was carrying a Glock 19. Bought new from a Gun Shop. Loaded it, and was carrying it in a nice belt leather holster. Lifted his shirt to show it to me, made no attempt to remove it. Thank you. He had not fired it.

When I asked him how did he know it even would fire. "It's new, why would it not work?"

It appeared to me, that no holster work was even contemplated?

armednfree. Your discussing actual incidents/criminal behaviour. Was a good thing. And as you were not the actual teacher, a good extra.

The sport of IDPA, a holster competition program, moving from place to place, shooting from different positions, only one competitor on the line at once, observed by a Range Official, was the type of program required to teach safety and proficiency way more than talking.
 
Aguila Blanca said:
I suppose my perceptions and opinion have been heavily influenced by the fact that my state requires the NRA Basic Pistol class as the CCW class. Not NRA First Steps, not Personal Protection in the Home, not Personal Protection Outside the Home ... Basic Pistol. I'm NRA certified to teach that class, so I know what it covers and what it doesn't cover. I also know that if you don't follow the NRA course lesson plan ... it's not the NRA course and, properly speaking, you're not allowed to call it that or issue an NRA certificate of completion.

And the NRA Basic Pistol class doesn't cover tactics, "preclusion," or legal issues. Those are reserved for more advanced classes, such as the two Personal Protection ___ classes. Those both include a module on the state's gun and self-defense laws, and the NRA requires that the legal module be taught by an attorney licensed in the jurisdiction.

[Note: Technically, my state's requirement is the NRA Basic Pistol class or other curriculum approved by the State Police. As far as I know, only one person has gotten his own course approved, and he conveniently happens to be a retired state police officer.]
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Yes, Texas could care less about the NRA. The long form CHL course when I took it (all day class) was a mix of shooting test, the law regarding self defense and scenarios on when you could and couldn't use it.

The short form is primarily the law on self defense. License renewals need no class now.
 
It appeared to me, that no holster work was even contemplated?
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Holster work is a good bit more complicated. The first thing is that most students don't show up with a concealment holster. Added to that fact is that there are so many types, too many to go into. Holster work is something that should be taught on the individual level.

There is some discussion. It is rather easy with a man since we tend to dress in the same way day to day. For example, I can carry in my Alien Gear on my hip every day. For a woman, who tends to dress in different styles, it is much more difficult. I make no illusion that I am qualified for that. I tend to think a woman, preferably a stylish one, should teach that. Find one, they are rather rare. I wish there was a store with a holster "boutique" for the ladies, and an attendant who knows what she's doing.

Encouraged is to practice the draw in front of a mirror. Repetitively until it becomes an automatic thing. Learn to do it with one hand as the very likely event is that you will be using your other one for defense. I do this often, loose no edge on that. All skills are perishable without refreshment.
 
FWIW, Florida accepts hunter safety or education courses approved by Fish and Wildlife or a similar agency in another state; any NRA firearm course; any firearms safety course taught by, well, almost anyone with any certification - junior colleges, colleges, LEAs, private schools, as long as the instructor is certified by NRA, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission, or the state Department of Agriculture. If that last one sounds weird, the licensing is through Agriculture and Consumer Affairs.

https://www.freshfromflorida.com/Co...se/Acceptable-Firearms-Training-Documentation
 
Funny thing is in Ohio a Corrections Officer receives 40 hours training in the academy in an OPOTA approved course then 8 hours training and qualification per year. That officer is not allowed to use that training to get a CCW. Then the fact that they actually have to get one yet someone with a military I.D. is allowed to carry on that.
 
TailGator said:
FWIW, Florida accepts hunter safety or education courses approved by Fish and Wildlife or a similar agency in another state; any NRA firearm course; any firearms safety course taught by, well, almost anyone with any certification - junior colleges, colleges, LEAs, private schools, as long as the instructor is certified by NRA, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission, or the state Department of Agriculture. If that last one sounds weird, the licensing is through Agriculture and Consumer Affairs.
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Florida also accepts (or used to) a DD-214. When I obtained my first Florida non-resident carry permit (around 2006, IIRC)) i sent in a copy of my DD-214. It was 38 years old and only showed that I had qualified on the M14. It somehow failed to show that I had also qualified on the M1 Carbine and the M16 ... but no handguns. But the Florida state law requires proof of "firearms safety training," not marksmanship or tactical training.
 
Prior to 911, I took an online Hunter Safety course, sent that into Florida.
It was mailed back to my Toronto address. When I crossed the border at Detroit, headed down the I 75 South. Holstered my Browning Hi-Power (Prior to my love affair with Glock) now carry my Glock 43X.

Once I entered the USA to live, I changed my address to my Sons, we lived with him for a while. Personally, I see no reason for a Concealed Carry License to be anything but a one time issue, and no renewal being necessary ever.

My interview, for my Citizenship, prior to the Ceremony, the Officer (Ex-Marine, if there is such a person, Ex that is) told me, we have never thrown a Canadian out, ever! In fact, I was in the interview office for a long time! My Wife was very concerned, I was talking to this really pleasant Chap for ages!

One comment I will never forget, he came out with me to meet my Wife.

I said give my Wife a hug! He said since talking to me, he was not going anywhere near her! Funny Guy.
 
Ex-Marine, if there is such a person, Ex that is
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Unless the Marine was separated under conditions other than a Honorable, General discharge under Honerable conditions, they are a 'Former Marine'..those that got kicked out are 'ex' marines. For info.
 
After carrying daily for roughly 30 years, I moved to SC. The CCW class was a joke. 10-1/2 hours of my life I will never get back.

Going rate for the class is about $75. Find one and wait for a class with an opening. Between find class and take class can run a couple months easy.

Class started with this is a gun, this is a trigger, this is a barrel, etc. If you need to be taught that and there is no gun owner in your life that can mentor you, the NRA has a class specifically designed for such complete novices.

Almost all of the law portion covered the ten or twelve broad categories of places where the state legislature has decreed that the exercise of a Constitutional right is a criminal offense.

The shooting proficiency test was the definition of stupid, Stevie Wonder could pass the shooting test. A silhouette about the size of an NFL offensive tackle. Start with ten shots at about three paces. Repeat at one pace intervals for a total of 100 shots. Impacts in the white count against you, but nobody counts the holes so missing the paper completely does not count against you.

Then the fingerprints and state application, another $50. They have 90 days to process the same background check they do if they notice a taillight out but they routinely take all the time they want which goes over the 90 days. That this breaks the law seems not to trouble them in the least.

Total cost? $125+. For a right. Prior restraint of a right? Five to six months. Total benefit as it relates to proficiency? Zero. Training as it relates to when is deadly force justifiable in the eyes of the law? I'll grant them this. I learned that if you intervene when someone else's life is in imminent peril, that person's right to self defense must be perfect, meaning if they started the initial confrontation or at any point did anything that could be construed as escalating - even something as simple as telling a road rager that a red light means stop - the state will jack you up too. That much at least is good to know in advance.
 
WOW, today I received my CCW in the mail. One month turnaround time. I think that's incredible. How fast did you all get your CCWs?
 
Then the fact that they actually have to get one yet someone with a military I.D. is allowed to carry on that.
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Basic training contains more than 40 hrs of firearm training and even the the Regular Army Support Units shoot more ammunition per year than most LEO’s much less a Corrections Officer.
 
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