Carrying into friend/acquaintances' homes

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Obviously a sign saying . . . "Obama '08" is a pretty clear indication
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Supporters of the Second Amendment, CCP holders, and gun hobbyists can be found in every political party, and since candidates run on more than one issue at a time, you might be surprised at the voting records of some folks who are on your side on firearms issues.

I do assume permission unless otherwise informed.
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Me, too. But I have never received an invitation, written or verbal, that included either "guns allowed" or "guns prohibited." I have worn a firearm to churches, synagogues, weddings, receptions, funerals, restaurants, parties, meetings of professional academies, private clubs, conventions, cookouts, and private homes, without ever being made, and therefore without objection.

I guess my puzzlement comes from this: If you are carrying well concealed, and you don't bring up the subject, how does the issue arise?

Still wondering if those who consider it rude for guests to carry without their permission reciprocate when they are guests, and how exactly it is handled if they do. I really can't imagine a graceful way to bring it up.
 
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Well I learned some things from this thread. Seems I have a different mindset than others on here more than I thought. Heck maybe from the TFL community in general.

I guess it boils down to the individual and not the tool for me. I am a bit of a control freak because I would want to know if someone was into my kitchen knives, tools, even if they were just looking... Any of that could be dangerous. Its not the gun it is that I don't know the people.

Here is where I question myself... The situation is no different in public settings so why am I more worried at home? I have my family out in public with out any control of others actions. For some reason the fact that it is my property got stuck in my crawl about this. It's moot anyway since I don't invite people to my home that I don't know. I just met a mortgage banker at a local restaurant instead of the house.

The other part was people saying that they would not visit if they could not carry kinda struck me as odd as well. Why? What does this do for our community? Do you feel that in danger that you can't leave your firearm behind? Honest questions (no snarkiness involved). As I have said before I am a young guy forming opinions and likes to hear the story before judging.

I.E. I can't carry at work so should I quit my job? For those that said they wouldn't visit someone who wouldn't want them to carry would you quit your job if they said that you couldn't carry?

I still feel....:barf:... I hate that word and I have used it in this thread more than any other time in my life:barf: Never mind because the more I put on here the more I sound anti even though I am the reciprocal.

Beentown
 
Concealed means just that, nobody can tell, nobody can see, if they can, well it isnt concealed now is it?
 
You can do without a visit to Bubba. However, you might not be able to do with the paycheck. Really, not a useful comparison.

The hospital doesn't allow guns either - however, I prefer to live and thus, I go there.

What does this say about society - well, I'd prefer to live in a completely nonviolent society and drink wine with friends but - that's not in the cards.
 
The other part was people saying that they would not visit if they could not carry kinda struck me as odd as well. Why? What does this do for our community? Do you feel that in danger that you can't leave your firearm behind?
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Nope. If I don't "feel safe" somewhere, I don't go there.

Rather, it's simply this: carrying is what I DO. I get dressed in the morning, I put my firearm on, I go about my business of the day. It's my default setting.

On one level, as I've said already, if someone wants me disarmed on their property, they're telling me they don't trust me. Okay, I can accept that -- they have just told me that they aren't my friend and don't want to be my friend. Next!

On a practical level, I'm already armed. I put the gun on this morning and I didn't intend to remove it until bedtime. You're asking me to handle the firearm unnecessarily, and to leave it somewhere less secure than it is right now. Not going to happen.

The firearm is considerably less safe lying around in a car than it is secured on my hip, so I'm not leaving it in the car unless it's either illegal to carry it or impossible to conceal it. I'm not going to be making a special trip back home just to disarm myself, and I'm not changing my entire daily routine just in case I might end up at your house.

When someone says they've got the right to keep firearms off their property, I see nothing wrong in respecting their wishes and staying off their property while I am armed.

Some folks seem to want it both ways: you want to set the rules for your own property, and then you want to insist that others must come on your property under those terms.

It doesn't work that way. My boundaries are mine, your boundaries are yours. You set your rules. I decide whether I can live with those rules.

So I'm not disarming and I'm not going to waste a bunch of emotional energy on a pseudo-friendship with someone who makes it plain they don't trust me. We can meet somewhere off their property, I guess. But if the friendship isn't even worth even that much effort to them, well, it surely isn't worth any more work on my part either. Life's too short!

I.E. I can't carry at work so should I quit my job? For those that said they wouldn't visit someone who wouldn't want them to carry would you quit your job if they said that you couldn't carry?
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I did. What you do is up to you. (And it's slightly different, as the job I quit was part time & seasonal, not the sole support for my family.)

pax
 
On one level, as I've said already, if someone wants me disarmed on their property, they're telling me they don't trust me. Okay, I can accept that -- they have just told me that they aren't my friend and don't want to be my friend. Next!
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Are you sure it is YOU they don't trust? Sure it's not cousin ed who is 250lbs with the mental capacity of a 13 y/o and likes to HUG? Sure it's not the 6 y/o twin cutie girls who love to jump on their favorite aunt or uncle?

I'm not sure it's always about trusting the person carrying...

Disclaimer: If not for these things, I wouldn't have even thought to disarm prior to going to someone else's home, much less ask or announce.
 
Kayla, if he's a bit off he's probably going to lie to you. I seem to be seeing a theme emerge, and it looks like its less about people carrying inside your house, versus particular persons possibly carrying in your house.

I'm curious, as this has been a very active discussion so it could easily have been missed, if you saw my halloween scenario? I am very interested in your response. It's definitely a thinker.

If you respect the home owner and announce that you have a gun, that could be perceived as a threat. And even I, pro gun and all, if someone knocked on my door and asked if their kid could use my bathroom, oh and by the way I have a gun, I would feel threatened, not respected.

If you trust the people you associate with, then I don't see a reason to disarm them (and it now sounds like you apparently do not disarm your carrying friends). As for the people you'd rather not have carrying around you or your family, you really should be treating them as if they are capable of harming you regardless of what tools they posess. And, essentially, isn't that why you (if you do) carry as well?

Depending on where you live, you may be walking within feet or inches from dozens of civilian owned and permitted guns every day. One of those people may end up being the next mass murder. Most will not. You have another thread asking how to spot concealed carriers. I get a strong sense that you are very uncomfortable with the subject right now.

Instead of vilifying all carriers, maybe you should (and I'm not trying to tell you what to do, just suggesting) focus on the core issue you have with it right now. If there's someone in your life right now that you are worried about, you should call the authorities or speak to someone. I get the feeling that these threads are the birth of you rationalizing your distrust of concealed weapons.

I may be entirely wrong and I hope that you are not offended. I sometimes misread things.

With all respect in the world, - Joshua.
 
Just to reiterate what pax had to say, by way of a short story:

Just last week, my wife and I were invited to a BBQ by a co-worker. I declined.

When asked why, by the co-worker, I told him that we have had several discussions about guns and that he is dead set against them. He then asked what guns have to do with coming to a BBQ. I remarked that I carry everywhere, either concealed or openly, and that he knew this.

I further said that since he is morally opposed to ordinary people who carry, then he is morally opposed to me. End of discussion, as I then walked away.

His choice. My choice. That's the way it should be.
 
So back to what I was saying. I'm always aware that almost any adult male can physically overpower me, if he tries hard enough. So if I don't trust the guy to begin with, disarming him really isn't going to do anything for me, safety-wise, and I know it. If the guy sets off my alarms, it isn't safe for me to hang around him, because I can't disarm him entirely -- he will still have his own body, which is larger than mine and more powerful.
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Exactly. I've never assumed that "people in general" are not carrying guns or are carrying them. That just isn't the issue for me: the issue is whether that particular person is someone I trust or someone I have reservations about. Only if somebody worries me for some other reason would I even think to worry about a gun they might be carrying.

But people feel differently about this. The only friends who might be shocked in my case live in California, however, and since I can't carry there except openly in rural areas, it's a moot point.
 
Just last week, my wife and I were invited to a BBQ by a co-worker. I declined.
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I understand and respect your decision, but did he include in his words of invitation that you were expected to leave your firearm at home, or did you assume it? How might things have gone if you accepted his invitation and carried discretely? Would he have asked you on arrival if you were armed? Or might he be someone who would respect your opinion and rights even though he disagreed with you?

I don't think we who carry should be hyper-sensitive about the issue. Not saying you were - you know the situation, you have a sense of how hostile he is, and you have your feelings about the guy - but it need not be a universal response to refuse all invitations from people who disagree with us on the issue of 2A rights. Building relationships is one way to change minds. Don't take this as a personal admonition - just a general idea for discussion.
 
flyguyskt, I'm pro concealed carry and I'm pro gun. I've been pro gun rights for probably 20 years even though I am very new to being a gun owner.

But I'm also pro individual autonomy and pro having control over my own house. To me, that trumps virtually everything. I've said it before:
My house. My rules. If you don't like it, leave.

That doesn't mean I won't let you carry in my house!! That just means it's my decision to make, not yours.

If anything, I'd expect 2nd amendment supporters to also be supporters of individual autonomy...so that's where I end up scratching my head.

But I don't think this debate is resolvable, nor do I think discussing it bearing much fruit.

Sefner, some of my biggest gun enthusiast/NRA friends voted for Obama and identify as Democrats. I think you're making a huge assumption that Obama voters = anti-gun.

Most people are not single issue voters.

Pax, there is way too much context that is missing, to talk about the guy I'd let in my house but not want to carry. I brought him up as an illustration, but it's not as simple as you're making it sound. (Or maybe for you, it would be more simple than it is for me.)
 
Orig poster was Tailgator:
I don't think we who carry should be hyper-sensitive about the issue.
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but it need not be a universal response to refuse all invitations from people who disagree with us on the issue of 2A rights. Building relationships is one way to change minds.
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I agree.

Beentown
 
Not only in the location mentioned in this string, but everywhere, the point of concealed carry is that no one knows your are carrying.

You have the tacical advantage in any situation that may arise.

If you can't overcome the urge to tell everyone you're carrying.....you shouldn't be carrying. You would be better suited working for an ad agency.

My 2 cents..........
 
In any situation (not just issues related to guns) it would be beneficial for all parties for the property owner to let guests know about special rules the first time they visit.

Do you prefer that I not visit after petting a cat or dog due to allergies? Would you like me to leave my gun at home or announce my carry status? Is your home a non-smoking location? Let me know about the rules of your house and I will comply or not visit.
 
I believe that a lot of the posters, me included, are having a different perspective when you use the word "friends". To me, and it is my perspective, the word "friends" conjures up an image of someone that I have known for a fairly long period of time and have trusted with conversations and openness that I would not deem appropriate for "acquaintances". It signifies a special bond. My daughter on the other hand uses the term "friends" to anyone on her "friends list" on Face Book or Space Book or whatever it is! LOL. If I were invited to one of my "friends" homes they would know that I have a CPL and I'm sure would not even ponder the ramifications of me being armed in their home. If I were invited to the home of an acquaintance, "don't ask don't tell" would be my thought and action. If I KNEW that the person DID NOT WANT me to carry in their home I would certainly respect that. Not because they think of themselves as the King or Queen of their castle, but out of respect for their wishes. As far as "my house, my rules", I can't help think about what my son-in-law tells his children when they stay with grandpa and grandma, "Pa's house, Pa's rules". I don't take that to mean that anything goes in my home. It means that my daughter and son-in-law have enough confidence and respect for me to use good judgement and if it differs some from their home turf, no big deal. It sounds to me that Kayla needs new friends and a new range with all of her talk about unsafe behavior. Very strange in my corner of the world. The people who are my "friends" are responsible gun owners and I can never remember one time that others at the range caused me to fret over safety issues. So I guess the moral of the story is..........there is no moral to the story. We all are different and live our individual lives in different manners.;)
 
TailGator, I quite understand what you are getting at.

I intentionally used the phrase, "co-worker," to denote that the individual was more than an acquaintance, but less than a what one would consider a friend.

I live in rural south central Idaho. Camping, fishing hunting and guns in general are common topics in the workplace. In such an environment, someone who is adamantly opposed to private ownership of firearms (hence, "dead set against them"), and purposely makes this known to everyone else, during many of these conversations, is not someone I would want to associate with.

Ignorance can be cured through education. A closed mind cannot be educated.
 
Kayla,
I think most here agree that you have the right to keep concealed weapons out of your house if you so choose. What I think the dissenting opinion is, is that the carrier is not/should not be required to TELL you they are carrying. If you don't want someone else carrying inside your house then IMO it is up to you to tell them. If you do not then how are they supposed to know? If your answer is really that they should ask...think of that on the whole scale. How many people's houses do you go into every week?
 
RE: "If you don't trust someone with a gun why do you let them in you house at all".

I've met quite a few fellow shooters over the years that I'd trust in my home but not in my home armed. It's not that I think they'd go crazy and hurt someone but some people just don't take gun safety seriously at all. Many years ago my wife and I were visiting some relatives. At one point in the visit one of their kids grabbed a gun out of a kitchen drawer and started waving it around. The parents just laughed. They're still welcome for barbecues etc but I wouldn't want them here with a gun.

I guess with most people though, I figure if I don't see it they're probably doing something right.
 
Sportdog, to be clear, Bass Pro is not "my range." I was only in there to see what handguns they have for sale.

And the female that pointed a gun at me wasn't exactly at the range either -- she was showing me her gun in the parking lot of my range.

The folks who work at my range have never shown anything other than scrupulous safety practices.
 
A closed mind cannot be educated.
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Truer words have not been spoken, my friend.

And your elaboration of the situation is exactly what I meant in qualifying my comments with the observation that you knew the situation better than anyone. I am always mindful that there are intangibles in the situations that are discussed on line that cannot be quite put into words, or at least not into a reasonable volume of words. Someone that rabid might well be expected to make a scene, or even to have issued the invitation with the intent of trying to embarrass or defame you. Situations like that are best avoided just like those that pose a physical threat.
 
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