Glenn E. Meyer
New member
I've been a touch to zealous. My position is clear so I shall retire from the field and watch.
Carrying into friend/acquaintances' homes
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bababooey32
New member
Doc,
Your unwillingness/inability to articulate and defend your position should tell you how unreasonable it truly is.
Reasonable rules are easy to defend. You have yet to do that. You have yet to say what your concern is in having someone safely and discreetly carry a firearm in your home. If you can't even answer that question, reasonableness has left the building.
bababooey32
New member
I asked Starngeglove this, and now I'll ask you: Do you have a list of items you don't allow in your home? You said you don't want armed people in your home. Is your definition of "armed" limited to firearms? If so, why?
Daugherty16
New member
I assume we are talking about properly licensed CCW
Kayla, i am presuming that the people in your life who carry concealed have gone through the legal process of being declared "fit" for carrying a weapon by the state? (having to be declared "fit" is another topic altogether). If not, they are committing a crime (in all but about 2 states, i think) and i don't want them carrying anywhere until they are legal. It places all of our carry rights in jeopardy every time someone carries illegally.
Like most of the others here, the folks i let in my home are already "vetted" or they wouldn't come through the door. Many of them carry, or at least hunt and shoot with me. If they choose to carry when they come over, GOOD. That makes it 2 guns against the BG if the SHTF, and absolutely no problem if it doesn't. Strangers simply do not come into my house, nor do people i don't trust. But do i care that the guy next to me at Walmart is carrying too? Not if he's legal. My experience is that sloppy carry is a trademark of illegal carry - obviously not always, but usually - and not one of my friends is sloppy with a firearm. I simply can't associate with someone whose carelessness could cost my life. I won't hunt with them, shoot with them, or invite them to my home. Also in my experience, legal CCW holders are the most responsible and law abiding folks around. Everyone? no, but most.
Kayla, i believe as strongly as you do in the right to set the rules in your own home. If those are truly your feelings, then lay down the law. But from some of what you've said, I wonder if your concerns are really more about a particular person being in your home and less about concealed carry in general. It sounds like you support CCW, which is good. If this is true, maybe it's just that particular person you should disinvite? Just a thought. Pax does make an awful lot of sense.
Though, i disagree about the King James thing. His deal was oppression and subjugation and taxation, not about control. He knew the quickest way to subjugate a people was to take away all their weapons. It had been done in Europe to the peasants for centuries before they came to the colonies.
Kayla, i am presuming that the people in your life who carry concealed have gone through the legal process of being declared "fit" for carrying a weapon by the state? (having to be declared "fit" is another topic altogether). If not, they are committing a crime (in all but about 2 states, i think) and i don't want them carrying anywhere until they are legal. It places all of our carry rights in jeopardy every time someone carries illegally.
Like most of the others here, the folks i let in my home are already "vetted" or they wouldn't come through the door. Many of them carry, or at least hunt and shoot with me. If they choose to carry when they come over, GOOD. That makes it 2 guns against the BG if the SHTF, and absolutely no problem if it doesn't. Strangers simply do not come into my house, nor do people i don't trust. But do i care that the guy next to me at Walmart is carrying too? Not if he's legal. My experience is that sloppy carry is a trademark of illegal carry - obviously not always, but usually - and not one of my friends is sloppy with a firearm. I simply can't associate with someone whose carelessness could cost my life. I won't hunt with them, shoot with them, or invite them to my home. Also in my experience, legal CCW holders are the most responsible and law abiding folks around. Everyone? no, but most.
Kayla, i believe as strongly as you do in the right to set the rules in your own home. If those are truly your feelings, then lay down the law. But from some of what you've said, I wonder if your concerns are really more about a particular person being in your home and less about concealed carry in general. It sounds like you support CCW, which is good. If this is true, maybe it's just that particular person you should disinvite? Just a thought. Pax does make an awful lot of sense.
Though, i disagree about the King James thing. His deal was oppression and subjugation and taxation, not about control. He knew the quickest way to subjugate a people was to take away all their weapons. It had been done in Europe to the peasants for centuries before they came to the colonies.Dr. Strangelove
New member
Tailgator
Shame on you. Next time you and the wife come over for a barbecue, it's clothes left at the door. In fact, that's my new policy. Everyone is naked all the time at my house!
(Disclaimer: Tailgator has never been to my home. He is certainly welcome.)
I do have reasons for my opinion, it's nothing to do with seducing my pets or annoying my wife. We can trade reasons for and against back and forth all day, but in the end, it's my home. I understand the strong feelings of the folks think that my view is wrong, I really do. Just understand that other points of view exist, and each person decides how they wish to live.
Shame on you. Next time you and the wife come over for a barbecue, it's clothes left at the door. In fact, that's my new policy. Everyone is naked all the time at my house!
(Disclaimer: Tailgator has never been to my home. He is certainly welcome.)I do have reasons for my opinion, it's nothing to do with seducing my pets or annoying my wife. We can trade reasons for and against back and forth all day, but in the end, it's my home. I understand the strong feelings of the folks think that my view is wrong, I really do. Just understand that other points of view exist, and each person decides how they wish to live.
LOL. Seeing me in my birthday suit would doubtlessly make you reconsider your policy.
The point I am making is that I could come to your house and not know that I was violating your rule of no guns in the house, and you wouldn't know, either, unless you bring it up. I do not feel obligated - and you should probably assume that other holders of concealed (such an important word!) weapons permits feel similarly - to disclose, unprompted, my carry status. If you feel strongly that there should be no guns in your house, it is attendant upon you to make that clear in advance so that I can choose whether to accept the conditions of your invitation or not. As I said earlier, I have never received an invitation, written or oral, that included either "guns permitted" or "guns not permitted," so I have to make my own assumptions that what is safe and legal is permissible if not expressly prohibited.
And Dr. Strangelove, thanks for the welcome - I am certain we would have a fun time razzing each other about everything we could think of. Starting with your screen name. ;-)
The point I am making is that I could come to your house and not know that I was violating your rule of no guns in the house, and you wouldn't know, either, unless you bring it up. I do not feel obligated - and you should probably assume that other holders of concealed (such an important word!) weapons permits feel similarly - to disclose, unprompted, my carry status. If you feel strongly that there should be no guns in your house, it is attendant upon you to make that clear in advance so that I can choose whether to accept the conditions of your invitation or not. As I said earlier, I have never received an invitation, written or oral, that included either "guns permitted" or "guns not permitted," so I have to make my own assumptions that what is safe and legal is permissible if not expressly prohibited.
And Dr. Strangelove, thanks for the welcome - I am certain we would have a fun time razzing each other about everything we could think of. Starting with your screen name. ;-)
This whole thread has me laughing my back side off!
At first I wanted to post a comment then changed my mind. Then decided to post after all.
It appears as if we have some posters that should choose differant friends. Maybe even change living arangements. Ones personal safety is paramount. This however, changes nothing in they manor in which ones true friends conduct their lives. If they carry a weapon great if they choose to live amongst the sheep so be it. Us sheep dogs will do our best to keep the wolfs at bay.
At first I wanted to post a comment then changed my mind. Then decided to post after all.
It appears as if we have some posters that should choose differant friends. Maybe even change living arangements. Ones personal safety is paramount. This however, changes nothing in they manor in which ones true friends conduct their lives. If they carry a weapon great if they choose to live amongst the sheep so be it. Us sheep dogs will do our best to keep the wolfs at bay.
Attachments
First, thanks for all the discussion on the thread! I still haven't read the last couple pages (in the hospital right now and can only stare at my phone for so long).
Second, my Obama bumpersticker comment was made in jest, as is evident by the sentence after it
.
This is a good convo and is a very good display of how even amongst us gun-toting maniacs positions on things can differ. keep it up!
Second, my Obama bumpersticker comment was made in jest, as is evident by the sentence after it
.This is a good convo and is a very good display of how even amongst us gun-toting maniacs positions on things can differ. keep it up!
bababooey32
New member
That solves one problem, but may create others!!!
or :barf:BillJunior
Inactive
Here in SC we don't have a choice :
SECTION 23-31-225. Carrying concealed weapons into residences or dwellings.
No person who holds a permit issued pursuant to Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23 may carry a concealable weapon into the residence or dwelling place of another person without the express permission of the owner or person in legal control or possession, as appropriate. A person who violates this provision is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined not less than one thousand dollars or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both, at the discretion of the court and have his permit revoked for five years.
SECTION 23-31-225. Carrying concealed weapons into residences or dwellings.
No person who holds a permit issued pursuant to Article 4, Chapter 31, Title 23 may carry a concealable weapon into the residence or dwelling place of another person without the express permission of the owner or person in legal control or possession, as appropriate. A person who violates this provision is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction, must be fined not less than one thousand dollars or imprisoned for not more than one year, or both, at the discretion of the court and have his permit revoked for five years.
To Doc Strangelove again,
Since you are so game for this (and isn't the lack of rancor refreshing, folks?):
Now that you know that I pretty much always carry, how would you feel about accepting an invitation to my house for the cookout?
I'll not ambush you again; it is a loaded question. If you say yes, I have to ask you why you consider your pal TailGator to be safer and less offensive armed at his house than armed at your house. If you say no, then are you saying that you choose not to associate with people who exercise their 2A rights? Then you have to ask yourself if you really support it in your deepest heart.
You should also know that I will require you to remain fully clothed. But I will not ask about your carry status as long as you stay sober.
Since you are so game for this (and isn't the lack of rancor refreshing, folks?):
Now that you know that I pretty much always carry, how would you feel about accepting an invitation to my house for the cookout?
I'll not ambush you again; it is a loaded question. If you say yes, I have to ask you why you consider your pal TailGator to be safer and less offensive armed at his house than armed at your house. If you say no, then are you saying that you choose not to associate with people who exercise their 2A rights? Then you have to ask yourself if you really support it in your deepest heart.
You should also know that I will require you to remain fully clothed.
But I will not ask about your carry status as long as you stay sober.
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Dr. Strangelove
New member
Tailgator: Ohhh a good one indeed!
I'd love to come down for the cookout! I won't be bringing a gun, but I'd tell you if I did...
Everyone read my posts carefully, it's never been about safety or guns being scary, it's been about someone bringing guns into my home without my knowledge. When invited to someone else's home, it's not my business if they choose to have weapons piled up in every corner. Their house, their rules.
I'd love to come down for the cookout! I won't be bringing a gun, but I'd tell you if I did...
Hey, your house, your rules.
Everyone read my posts carefully, it's never been about safety or guns being scary, it's been about someone bringing guns into my home without my knowledge. When invited to someone else's home, it's not my business if they choose to have weapons piled up in every corner. Their house, their rules.
Beentown71
New member
Change of mind...
I want to thank all of you for the discussion. I "feel"barf: there goes that word again) different about the situation now. If someone were to carry into my home and I not know I think I would be cool with it now. The only time things would change is if they started to carry it irresponsibly. Drinking, showing it off, heck even talking about it and they are out the door. I can't control the general public so if they are carrying responsibly then so be it.
The sticking point for me was...example time:
My wifes brother would be eligible for a CCW if he chose so. I would not want him to carry in my home. I rarely let him in but he is family. I think I would just handle it differently now.
Glenn,
I do have some my cave, my cave in me Strangely, well not so strangely I am not that way in public surroundings.
Thanks again,
Beentown
I want to thank all of you for the discussion. I "feel"
barf: there goes that word again) different about the situation now. If someone were to carry into my home and I not know I think I would be cool with it now. The only time things would change is if they started to carry it irresponsibly. Drinking, showing it off, heck even talking about it and they are out the door. I can't control the general public so if they are carrying responsibly then so be it. The sticking point for me was...example time:
My wifes brother would be eligible for a CCW if he chose so. I would not want him to carry in my home. I rarely let him in but he is family. I think I would just handle it differently now.
Glenn,
I do have some my cave, my cave in me
Strangely, well not so strangely I am not that way in public surroundings.Thanks again,
Beentown
Conceal quietly, leave it in the car, or just open carry???
Interesting discussion on carrying in other people’s homes…
At my house, I would presume that those friends of mine who had completed (and passed) the required training, and were thus qualified to carry concealed, would be welcome to do so if they felt that they were in such danger to warrant such behavior (for lack of a better word…)
That being said, we have friends (very close friends for the past 30+ years) who are not necessarily “Pro” nor “Anti”, yet their lifestyle is a bit more, um, “liberal” that ours.
There are guns in the house, but not of the “carrying” kind…
They had lived in an area of town that was less than “ideal” for almost twenty years, and subsequently had a number of neighbors whose involvement in gang related activities were fairly strong.
Which brings to current day events…
Our friends have since moved to a slightly less gang infested area (not quite the barrio they were in before, but close) and throw a couple of “family” parties per year, to which we are invited.
The guest list usually includes a bunch of their (and their children’s) long ago acquaintances from the old neighborhood, plus some “new” friends that have similar social tendencies (tats, colors, etc.)
During the last fete, there was the distinct sound of gunfire in the nearby area just after dark (reports, but no localized sounds of projectiles overhead), and we (my wife and I) were pretty uncomfortable with the knowledge that we would be leaving through what is for all intents and purposes “Gangland on a Saturday Night”.
Consider also that some of the guests were well outside of their normal “turf”, and thus potential targets of rival gangs, even though they are simply visiting folks who carry no particular affiliation.
Now, do we personally carry concealed at their home during these parties, if only to level a portion of the “playing field”, yet not inform them?
Or do we leave our weapons locked in our vehicle, which is a potential target of theft given the neighborhood they live in?
Or do we conceal and advise the host that we are concerned for our safety, thus remaining armed and able to defend ourselves, should the situation arise that defense is necessary??
Or do we open carry, and worry the shi t out of the bangers in attendance (or for that matter potentially induce a confrontation)??
I’m going for carrying concealed unannounced…
Interesting discussion on carrying in other people’s homes…
At my house, I would presume that those friends of mine who had completed (and passed) the required training, and were thus qualified to carry concealed, would be welcome to do so if they felt that they were in such danger to warrant such behavior (for lack of a better word…)
That being said, we have friends (very close friends for the past 30+ years) who are not necessarily “Pro” nor “Anti”, yet their lifestyle is a bit more, um, “liberal” that ours.
There are guns in the house, but not of the “carrying” kind…
They had lived in an area of town that was less than “ideal” for almost twenty years, and subsequently had a number of neighbors whose involvement in gang related activities were fairly strong.
Which brings to current day events…
Our friends have since moved to a slightly less gang infested area (not quite the barrio they were in before, but close) and throw a couple of “family” parties per year, to which we are invited.
The guest list usually includes a bunch of their (and their children’s) long ago acquaintances from the old neighborhood, plus some “new” friends that have similar social tendencies (tats, colors, etc.)
During the last fete, there was the distinct sound of gunfire in the nearby area just after dark (reports, but no localized sounds of projectiles overhead), and we (my wife and I) were pretty uncomfortable with the knowledge that we would be leaving through what is for all intents and purposes “Gangland on a Saturday Night”.
Consider also that some of the guests were well outside of their normal “turf”, and thus potential targets of rival gangs, even though they are simply visiting folks who carry no particular affiliation.
Now, do we personally carry concealed at their home during these parties, if only to level a portion of the “playing field”, yet not inform them?
Or do we leave our weapons locked in our vehicle, which is a potential target of theft given the neighborhood they live in?
Or do we conceal and advise the host that we are concerned for our safety, thus remaining armed and able to defend ourselves, should the situation arise that defense is necessary??
Or do we open carry, and worry the shi t out of the bangers in attendance (or for that matter potentially induce a confrontation)??
I’m going for carrying concealed unannounced…
Since South Carolina and Alaska both require express permission to enter a home with a concealed weapon, and at least SC and presumably Alaska also prescribe criminal penalties for doing so, do you guys consider getting it in writing? Or do you just never do it? Anybody know if there are other states with similar provisions?
AS 11.61.220. Misconduct Involving Weapons in the Fifth Degree.
(a) A person commits the crime of misconduct involving weapons in the fifth degree if the person
(1) is 21 years of age or older and knowingly possesses a deadly weapon, other than an ordinary pocket knife or a defensive weapon,
(A) that is concealed on the person, and, when contacted by a peace officer, the person fails to
(i) immediately inform the peace officer of that possession; or
(ii) allow the peace officer to secure the deadly weapon, or fails to secure the weapon at the direction of the peace officer, during the duration of the contact;
(B) that is concealed on the person within the residence of another person unless the person has first obtained the express permission of an adult residing there to bring a concealed deadly weapon within the residence;
Most of my friends houses are on base which means I can't carry there anyway. Those who do not reside on base (I can thing of three off the top of my head) are very close friends who also carry and we have discussed carrying at length in the course of normal conversation at work. I have been to the range with all of them and permission has been granted for me to carry in their home with the obvious exception of consumption of alcoholic beverages. If I am carrying in their home and I really want a beer or any other alcoholic beverage, I go out to my truck, disassemble my Glock, lock the frame in the glove box, lock the slide/barrel in the center console, and turn over all magazines/ammo to my buddy for safe storage in their safe. I've got extra mags at home and they'll bring the ones I turned over to work on monday.
BTW: I think a lot of people are really overthinking this...
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Robert Johnson
New member
I agree with the guy who made post 107.
I learned this lesson young in life. I mentioned to an older, wiser, man that I was having all types of trouble with my democrat friend trying to convince him to vote Bush in 2000. This wise man replied "I do not have a democrat friend". Now I just work harder and live better having zero democrat friends to waste my time on. This method can work well for gun owners too. If they don't like guns, don't talk to them.
I learned this lesson young in life. I mentioned to an older, wiser, man that I was having all types of trouble with my democrat friend trying to convince him to vote Bush in 2000. This wise man replied "I do not have a democrat friend". Now I just work harder and live better having zero democrat friends to waste my time on. This method can work well for gun owners too. If they don't like guns, don't talk to them.
Harleyfixer
New member
Pretty much a non-issue at my house. I carry and so do most of my friends. I trust them and they trust me. Nuff said
Carry
Although I firmly believe an individual has the right to carry if no laws are being broken, I also believe Kayla makes some very important points. If you are bringing a deadly weapon onto another's property and into their home, they should be notified in advance and of course have the right to say no.
It then becomes your choice whether or not you wish to enter the person's home without your carry should they object. If you feel unsafe leaving your weapon locked in your car while visiting this person, you should probably stay home.
Not everyone is going to share your views on carrying a concealed weapon and for that matter in many situations your views may be in the minority, and you really have little choice but to accept that fact and respect the views of the homeowner your are visiting. By putting your right to carry above the values of a friendship, I would suggest you may need to take a serious look at your priorities.
F. Prefect
Although I firmly believe an individual has the right to carry if no laws are being broken, I also believe Kayla makes some very important points. If you are bringing a deadly weapon onto another's property and into their home, they should be notified in advance and of course have the right to say no.
It then becomes your choice whether or not you wish to enter the person's home without your carry should they object. If you feel unsafe leaving your weapon locked in your car while visiting this person, you should probably stay home.
Not everyone is going to share your views on carrying a concealed weapon and for that matter in many situations your views may be in the minority, and you really have little choice but to accept that fact and respect the views of the homeowner your are visiting. By putting your right to carry above the values of a friendship, I would suggest you may need to take a serious look at your priorities.
F. Prefect
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