Harry Callahan
New member
This is the stuff the left wing media LOVES to report. They would rather report this than report you saved your entire family by using a gun legally. Be smart.
Carrying Concealed without CCW in NY
- Thread starter Elijah7
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This is the stuff the left wing media LOVES to report. They would rather report this than report you saved your entire family by using a gun legally. Be smart.
chris in va
New member
So he can't carry without a permit. What other options are available to him besides firearms? Folding knife, bear spray...?
See, we have to help each other out on these issues instead of 'move' or 'don't do it'.
See, we have to help each other out on these issues instead of 'move' or 'don't do it'.
mikejonestkd
New member
You need to contact the local issuing office, probably at the county clerk's office or contact the issuing judge to have the permit ammended.
In some cases it is fairly simple to do, in other cases it may be time consumming but not impossible.
If you have a 5 year history of having a permit and no legal issues to speak of you should prevail.
We were specifically told in Monroe County to write on the application each and every possibly reason for owning/ carrying a pistol in NY, including carrying for personal protection. I suggest that others do the same when they apply, even if they never want to hunt, or work for an armored car service, or be a security guard, or target shoot competively...and so on and so on..
In some cases it is fairly simple to do, in other cases it may be time consumming but not impossible.
If you have a 5 year history of having a permit and no legal issues to speak of you should prevail.
We were specifically told in Monroe County to write on the application each and every possibly reason for owning/ carrying a pistol in NY, including carrying for personal protection. I suggest that others do the same when they apply, even if they never want to hunt, or work for an armored car service, or be a security guard, or target shoot competively...and so on and so on..
chris in va, thank you!
To Wuchak's point it is not breaking the law, it is a restriction. He is the only one who has actually put a link to the actual laws and penal codes.
Sigma 40 Blaster - I assure you on I am your side of the fence. I believe every citizen has a right and a duty to carry.
To be clear I do have a pistol permit. It is just with restrictions. I am looking for creative ideas like Wuchak and JohnC offered. My intention is NOT to break the law, it is to carry and still be within it. I like the 24 hr range idea. Does anyone know what requirements there are to open an indoor range in NY? I have a building that is plenty large enough and it sounds like a perfect work around.
Almost all of you are privledged to live in a state that allows people to carry and protect themselves. It is easy for you to say 'move' or 'don't carry'. That doesn't help me. If I wanted to move soley based on carrying I would take a right and move to Vermont. The fact is I don't want to move and do want to carry.
I served my country for 4 years, most of it overseas in Afghanistan, South America, etc. The entire time I was allowed to be armed to defend myself, my brothers and foreign citizens, but the moment I am back on US soil I am not allowed to carry to defend myself or my loved ones. That's pretty messed up.
Thank you to those of you who have helped.
To Wuchak's point it is not breaking the law, it is a restriction. He is the only one who has actually put a link to the actual laws and penal codes.
Sigma 40 Blaster - I assure you on I am your side of the fence. I believe every citizen has a right and a duty to carry.
To be clear I do have a pistol permit. It is just with restrictions. I am looking for creative ideas like Wuchak and JohnC offered. My intention is NOT to break the law, it is to carry and still be within it. I like the 24 hr range idea. Does anyone know what requirements there are to open an indoor range in NY? I have a building that is plenty large enough and it sounds like a perfect work around.
Almost all of you are privledged to live in a state that allows people to carry and protect themselves. It is easy for you to say 'move' or 'don't carry'. That doesn't help me. If I wanted to move soley based on carrying I would take a right and move to Vermont. The fact is I don't want to move and do want to carry.
I served my country for 4 years, most of it overseas in Afghanistan, South America, etc. The entire time I was allowed to be armed to defend myself, my brothers and foreign citizens, but the moment I am back on US soil I am not allowed to carry to defend myself or my loved ones. That's pretty messed up.
Thank you to those of you who have helped.
mikejonestkd
New member
>>>My intention is NOT to break the law, it is to carry and still be within it.<<<
Please have your current permit ammended. It is cheaper and easier than any of the options you are currently considering, especially if you figure in lawyers fees for charges against you if you are caught.
Do it legally, or not at all.
Please have your current permit ammended. It is cheaper and easier than any of the options you are currently considering, especially if you figure in lawyers fees for charges against you if you are caught.
Do it legally, or not at all.
Elijah7
I think I would forget the opening my own range idea. I can't imaging what would be involved. Structure, ventilation, deceleration, backstops, Insurance, acoustics, permits.....
The business permit would give you some latitude. Alternatively, I would find a range that is open 24/7 not to close to home perhaps and join.
I think I would forget the opening my own range idea. I can't imaging what would be involved. Structure, ventilation, deceleration, backstops, Insurance, acoustics, permits.....
The business permit would give you some latitude. Alternatively, I would find a range that is open 24/7 not to close to home perhaps and join.
Wuchak is exactly right.
The licensing authority can pull your pistol LICENSE (not permit) and have it revoked for any reason they deem but you can not be arrested for carrying a pistol IF you have the carry license with restrictions and the pistol is on your license. You are not breaking any law by carrying. You are breaking your "agreement" to abide by the restrictions.
In Suffolk County it is expressly written in the handbook you are allowed to stop where you want (within limitations of course, you can't go to a bar) on your way TO and your way FROM the range. It does not say how long that journey to and from can be. It could be 12 hours. Whens the last time you were stopped and searched? How about never?
The licensing authority can pull your pistol LICENSE (not permit) and have it revoked for any reason they deem but you can not be arrested for carrying a pistol IF you have the carry license with restrictions and the pistol is on your license. You are not breaking any law by carrying. You are breaking your "agreement" to abide by the restrictions.
In Suffolk County it is expressly written in the handbook you are allowed to stop where you want (within limitations of course, you can't go to a bar) on your way TO and your way FROM the range. It does not say how long that journey to and from can be. It could be 12 hours. Whens the last time you were stopped and searched? How about never?
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Elijah7
I used to live in NYC and had my target pistol permit. It is my understanding of the law that if I were to carry CCW with only a target permit it would not be illegal (but rather a violation of the permit conditions ) as the gun is registrated and legally owned. What would happen if caught is that your permit and gun would be taked away but there would be no criminal issues.
I felt like you having had some close calls in NYC. I was lucky that one night as I went to my car in my underground gargage I had my pistol with me. When I went into the garage I saw someone in my car (and my alarm siren on the ground) and 2 other people were breaking into my neighbors cars. The door behind me closed and could not be opened from the inside so I was trapped in a corner as these 3 guys came at me with what turned out to be sharpened screw driviers. They were very upset I disturbed their plans. I know if I did not have my pistol with me I would not be here today. No one at the pistol licensing bureau, or police or mayor would know or care. No one has the right to say I should not be able to protect me or my family. Isn't that the basis of our, "right to the pursuit of happiness" as we cannot pursue any happiness if we are not alive.
This was not the only time a pistol in NYC has saved either my life or preventing some serious injury to me and a friend.
I always do not best to obey the law with the exception above. I registrated my HK91 and Mini-14 in NYC and the next year they were made illegal and I was supposed to get rid of them at a great loss so I moved out of the state. A friend's friend did not think the police would follow up on the registared and now illegal "assault weapons" and was surprised to find 5 officers with a warrant at his door.
Legally the way some get around even losing the permit while carrying the weapon at 24 hours, locked and unloaded in a case, is that there was a 24 hour range open in Queens. It was down stairs under a Chinese restaurant (either on Hillside Ave or Jamaica Ave. I forgot which) and if you belonged you got a key to the Chinese restaurant. It was not a good neighborhood and it was possible that the criminal element knew that when the restaurant was closed anyone who went in there had a pistol and if they were carrying as per permit conditions they could easily get a free pistol. I always got a kick out of going to this range.
I used to live in NYC and had my target pistol permit. It is my understanding of the law that if I were to carry CCW with only a target permit it would not be illegal (but rather a violation of the permit conditions ) as the gun is registrated and legally owned. What would happen if caught is that your permit and gun would be taked away but there would be no criminal issues.
I felt like you having had some close calls in NYC. I was lucky that one night as I went to my car in my underground gargage I had my pistol with me. When I went into the garage I saw someone in my car (and my alarm siren on the ground) and 2 other people were breaking into my neighbors cars. The door behind me closed and could not be opened from the inside so I was trapped in a corner as these 3 guys came at me with what turned out to be sharpened screw driviers. They were very upset I disturbed their plans. I know if I did not have my pistol with me I would not be here today. No one at the pistol licensing bureau, or police or mayor would know or care. No one has the right to say I should not be able to protect me or my family. Isn't that the basis of our, "right to the pursuit of happiness" as we cannot pursue any happiness if we are not alive.
This was not the only time a pistol in NYC has saved either my life or preventing some serious injury to me and a friend.
I always do not best to obey the law with the exception above. I registrated my HK91 and Mini-14 in NYC and the next year they were made illegal and I was supposed to get rid of them at a great loss so I moved out of the state. A friend's friend did not think the police would follow up on the registared and now illegal "assault weapons" and was surprised to find 5 officers with a warrant at his door.
Legally the way some get around even losing the permit while carrying the weapon at 24 hours, locked and unloaded in a case, is that there was a 24 hour range open in Queens. It was down stairs under a Chinese restaurant (either on Hillside Ave or Jamaica Ave. I forgot which) and if you belonged you got a key to the Chinese restaurant. It was not a good neighborhood and it was possible that the criminal element knew that when the restaurant was closed anyone who went in there had a pistol and if they were carrying as per permit conditions they could easily get a free pistol. I always got a kick out of going to this range.
+1 this is right. Any NYS pistol license is a license to carry concealed. The restrictions on the license do not carry any legal weight. You can carry from one end of the state to the other. I carry when I drive 4 hours upstate to my brother-in-laws farm, because I know I will do some shooting when I get there. The worst that can happen is that you get your license pulled from you if they believe you are violating the agreement.
so wait, let me get this straight.. i've read through the nassau county laws and everything, and i read that a license to own is a license to carry, but nothing about the restrictions being just a "suggestion" (to put it lightly). what i'm saying is that i did not know they didn't hold any legal weight. not to hijack, but I'm turning 21 in march, plan on submitting my application for a pistol license. I've never had any encounters with the law aside from 2 traffic tickets, and I believe I have some good character references to use.. I know that it'll take at least 6 months, but what are my chances?
I'd bet that if you removed all the posts where the recommendation to "move" was suggested, there would be half the posts on this forum. Pretty sure that is not a viable alternative to the OP, or any other. Kinda think they know that already.
I happen to like many things about New York and particularly Long Island. I'm not ready to move to Montana because they have better gun laws. I would rather work to change our laws, although there does not seem to be much interest in it anymore. Long Island and downstate New York has moved decidedly to the left and there seems to be little hope in that changing anytime soon.
I happen to like many things about New York and particularly Long Island. I'm not ready to move to Montana because they have better gun laws. I would rather work to change our laws, although there does not seem to be much interest in it anymore. Long Island and downstate New York has moved decidedly to the left and there seems to be little hope in that changing anytime soon.
shiky said:
edit: Shiky - I just reread and realized you're on LI. That's a whole different story. The city and island have their own set of regulations that I am not familiar with. What I posted applies to rest of the state.
The restrictions that don't carry legal weight are the ones that are typed on your permit by the Judge. They list the activities you can pursue while carrying e.g. target, hunting, etc. They are part of your individual agreement with the issuing Judge. Since NY is may issue if you violate this agreement and the Judge finds out then he can revoke your permit, but that is it. You cannot be arrested or fined or violating them. According to the codes I linked to earlier you either have a permit or you don't. There are different types, one for a homeowner to have a handgun in the house, one for carry outside the house, and one for a business owner to have one at the business. If you have a homeowner or business owner permit you cannot carry off the property listed on the permit or it would be considered the same as not having a permit at all.
NY gun laws are messed up along with a lot of other things in the State. If you're from there you kind of know that but it's normal. Once you move to any state other than CA, MA, CT, or NJ (which are worse than NY) you will see just how bad NY was s******g you a hundred ways everyday.
have to agree with pdog, other than move the only recourse would be get involved politically to get laws changed. all things considered, think your time and $$$ will be better spent. wish i had an answer for ya as to what to do in the meantime. thoughs kind of laws are one reason i DON`T love NY.
I am not sure that this is not entirely correct. Suffolk may or not be issuing what was previously known as a "premise permit" to keep on your premise. The new common license is a "sportsmans" which is basically the former "target to and from range". Then there is a "business" which was also referred to as a "business endorsement". For this class at you have/had to substantiate deposits of a certain amount within a necessary time frame. There is also a "carry for personal protection". This is the most seldom issued permit by far. Not much mention is made of it in pistol licensing literature either. Please understand that this is/was an evolving issue. I have had both Nassau and Suffolk permits for nearly twenty years now (as I lived in both counties) and have seen constant changes. They have just recently evolved into a real looking plastic document. Previously you got a paper permit that was type written on. Years ago when I had my Suffolk business carry I was instructed to return immediately to my residence with my weapon after work. I was not to make any unreasonable stops while en route. I will tell you this, there are as many interpretations by permit holders of what is correct and wrong as there are opinions on this forum. Me, I prefer not to "test" the law and risk revocation or worse. I would only recommend and endorse getting the class license that you need and abiding by the restrictions imposed on it.
wnycollector
New member
Elijah7 I agree with the other posters here about getting the restrictions changed. I live in niagara county, which is VERY gun friendly. Both my wife and I recieved out FULL CCW permits in less than 2 months. I know of two instances where friends of mine petioned the judges who issues their permits to lift the restrictions. Both waited a year before doing so. If you have had yours for 5...it shouldnt be a problem.
As far as moving...almost all upstate counties are very gun friendly (except for Erie...like a little NYC!). I had a buddy move from Erie to Niagara county, the niagara county judge issued him a full carry after he lived here for a year.
I have friends who have hunting/range permits and they ALWAYS have a range bag/hunting gear in their cars. And since they cannot leave their pistols in the car when they run into the grocery store on the way to the range...they must carry their pistols
Stay safe!
As far as moving...almost all upstate counties are very gun friendly (except for Erie...like a little NYC!). I had a buddy move from Erie to Niagara county, the niagara county judge issued him a full carry after he lived here for a year.
I have friends who have hunting/range permits and they ALWAYS have a range bag/hunting gear in their cars. And since they cannot leave their pistols in the car when they run into the grocery store on the way to the range...they must carry their pistols
Stay safe!
To quote the latest (2002!) Suffolk County pistol handbook rules and regulations:
(Note) For the
purpose of target shooting and hunting, the Police Commissioner has authorized licensees to meet for
the purpose of car pooling and to stop for non-alcoholic refreshments on the way to and from their
shooting destination. You are authorized to do this only during the period upon leaving your residence
and arriving at your shooting destination or during the return trip.
If thats not open to broad interpretation.......
I agree with John C better not to test the limits however. There is no legal appeal to be made if you lose it, The issuing authority in New York has very wide discretion.
Also, anyone who has a full carry license from an upstate county is LEGAL to carry in Suffolk and Nassau county. NOT New York City. I sat through an excruciatingly boring 10 hour "basic pistol" course yesterday (to get a required certification document for the state of Utah) and this was covered.
(Note) For the
purpose of target shooting and hunting, the Police Commissioner has authorized licensees to meet for
the purpose of car pooling and to stop for non-alcoholic refreshments on the way to and from their
shooting destination. You are authorized to do this only during the period upon leaving your residence
and arriving at your shooting destination or during the return trip.
If thats not open to broad interpretation.......
I agree with John C better not to test the limits however. There is no legal appeal to be made if you lose it, The issuing authority in New York has very wide discretion.
Also, anyone who has a full carry license from an upstate county is LEGAL to carry in Suffolk and Nassau county. NOT New York City. I sat through an excruciatingly boring 10 hour "basic pistol" course yesterday (to get a required certification document for the state of Utah) and this was covered.
kennybs plbg
New member
My license clearly states not valid in Nassau or NYC with out permission of local authorities.
95% of NYS is gun friendly, the trick is to learn the game from people who are from NY and have been through this already. Don't listen to people who don't live there and give opinions, they don't have a clue.
I recently left NY after 49 years (Erie Co.) and moved to Az. I can honestly say I was more comfortable CCW in NY. NY is a very liberal state with it's penal code and the people have more ccw rights there when a license is aquired then in most other states. Know Artical 35 inside out and don't fear the restrictions if your a law abiding citizen, they're put on to help maintain control in the more populated areas. The NY'ers here gave you sound advice but remember NYC and Nassau is not really NYS, or at least it shouldn't be.
kenny b
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