That's not a fact by any stretch. There have been studies that have shown dolphins, whales, and several types of primates to engage in "gang" like murderous activity for nothing more than sport. My Jack Russell kills lizards, bugs and try for squirrels and peacocks for sport - its her favorite recreational activity. She'll follow a squirrel right up a tree just for a chance to get her paws on it. Its a good thing she only weights 15 lbs.
Blood Thirsty Pack of Dogs
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That's not a fact by any stretch. There have been studies that have shown dolphins, whales, and several types of primates to engage in "gang" like murderous activity for nothing more than sport. My Jack Russell kills lizards, bugs and try for squirrels and peacocks for sport - its her favorite recreational activity. She'll follow a squirrel right up a tree just for a chance to get her paws on it. Its a good thing she only weights 15 lbs.
A local nonprofit had an issue with some wild dogs using their rear parking areafor a sleeping/play area, then they began to dig thru the trash cans and then became aggressive towards the employees...the last straw was when one tried tried to attack an employee...the local animal control was called...they came out and could not locate the dogs...twice.
Being near downtown, this was a sticky situation. i went over at sundown when no employees were present and the dogs were there. As soon as I exited my vehicle, here thhey came...growling at me. I used my suppressed P22 to quickly and quietly dispatch all three dogs.
Hate that it comes to this, but animal control would have out them down anyway. Had there been a child in the area, they would not have fared well.
Being near downtown, this was a sticky situation. i went over at sundown when no employees were present and the dogs were there. As soon as I exited my vehicle, here thhey came...growling at me. I used my suppressed P22 to quickly and quietly dispatch all three dogs.
Hate that it comes to this, but animal control would have out them down anyway. Had there been a child in the area, they would not have fared well.
Rifleman1776
New member
I don't know what world you come from but that is as uninformed a statement as is possible.
Many animals kill just for the joy of killing. When we raised chickens racoons would kill a couple dozen each night and not eat them. Outside domestic cats will kill birds, mice, lizards and any other creature they can catch and not eat them. The list goes on and on, many-many animals kill just for the seeming pleasure they get from killing.
dog packs
I used to have a deer lease, right outside the city of Buda, Texas. The guy
that owned the land said he killed alot of dogs every year because of the
real estate development next to his property. He said he thought that when
city folks moved out into the country, the first thing they thought they had
to do was get at least 2 or more dogs! He told my hunting partner and I, that
he killed at least 40 dogs a year, caught chasing the cattle he had on the
property. I can believe that because we saw plenty of em chasing the deer.
I used to have a deer lease, right outside the city of Buda, Texas. The guy
that owned the land said he killed alot of dogs every year because of the
real estate development next to his property. He said he thought that when
city folks moved out into the country, the first thing they thought they had
to do was get at least 2 or more dogs! He told my hunting partner and I, that
he killed at least 40 dogs a year, caught chasing the cattle he had on the
property. I can believe that because we saw plenty of em chasing the deer.
In October 2009, Canadian folk singer Taylor Mitchell was stalked and killed by 2 coyotes in Cape Breton Highlands National Park, despite the fact that there were other hikers nearby. A parks expert said the 2 coyotes appeared to be working in tandem, like a team, which they will do when taking down a deer, likely that the victim did not even realize what was happening. Other hikers scared the coyotes off. Canadian Parks do NOT allow any weapons (ie machete), handguns, or other firearms.
Well I won't be visiting a Canadian Park anytme soon.
We enjoy hiking and walking in the wild very much, and do a lot of park visits. Just started carrying a Walther PPS...its a terriffic CCW but only a 6 round magazine...not sure that would do for 2 attacking wild canidae, time to go back to a hi-cap pistol, any suggestions re appropriate pistol and caliber appreciated.
Dogs are real quick, I'm guessing the best tactic is to pepper the attackers with rapid fire bursts.
Well I won't be visiting a Canadian Park anytme soon.
We enjoy hiking and walking in the wild very much, and do a lot of park visits. Just started carrying a Walther PPS...its a terriffic CCW but only a 6 round magazine...not sure that would do for 2 attacking wild canidae, time to go back to a hi-cap pistol, any suggestions re appropriate pistol and caliber appreciated.
Dogs are real quick, I'm guessing the best tactic is to pepper the attackers with rapid fire bursts.
Single Six
New member
Pepper spray may or not work on a dog. I've personally seen it work very well on canines, and I've seen it fail miserably too. Carry it, of course, just be ready for the possibility that it may not work as desired every time. In addition to whatever firepower you may decide to tote, a large folding or fixed blade knife is also a good idea...they make no noise, never jam, and never run out of ammo.
aarondhgraham
New member
They are animals and we are humans,,,
That really should be all there is to any argument.
Whenever I or anyone I care about is threatened by any animal,,,
I am going to have the animal picked up by the authorities,,,
If they won't respond I will dispatch the animal myself.
Sound harsh?
I really do not care.
They are animals and I am a human,,,
Humans take priority in my book.
I have been bitten by "Fluffy" before,,,
I feel bad for any dog owner if their beloved pooch gets shot,,,
But I feel infinitely worse for any human who has suffered an attack by a "harmless pet".
My father is 78 years old and lives out in the country,,,
He called and asked to borrow a shotgun,,,
Neighbors dog was on his back porch,,,
The dog wouldn't let him outside.
Long story short we had a conversation with the neighbor,,,
His response was, "That old dog wouldn't hurt a fly.",,,
Was I supposed to wait until it actually bit my Dad?
Later that day the dog settled in on dads porch again,,,
It growled at me and suffered the consequence.
Call me harsh but I gave the owner the opportunity to do something about it,,,
He didn't, so I did.
Aarond
That really should be all there is to any argument.
Whenever I or anyone I care about is threatened by any animal,,,
I am going to have the animal picked up by the authorities,,,
If they won't respond I will dispatch the animal myself.
Sound harsh?
I really do not care.
They are animals and I am a human,,,
Humans take priority in my book.
I have been bitten by "Fluffy" before,,,
I feel bad for any dog owner if their beloved pooch gets shot,,,
But I feel infinitely worse for any human who has suffered an attack by a "harmless pet".
My father is 78 years old and lives out in the country,,,
He called and asked to borrow a shotgun,,,
Neighbors dog was on his back porch,,,
The dog wouldn't let him outside.
Long story short we had a conversation with the neighbor,,,
His response was, "That old dog wouldn't hurt a fly.",,,
Was I supposed to wait until it actually bit my Dad?
Later that day the dog settled in on dads porch again,,,
It growled at me and suffered the consequence.
Call me harsh but I gave the owner the opportunity to do something about it,,,
He didn't, so I did.
Aarond
JustThisGuy
New member
I design security programs for government entities, NGOs (think peacekeepers), etc. As part of a comprehensive security program, we often develop Security Dog Programs including Executive Protection, Property Protection, Drugs, Explosives, Contraband, etc. We work a lot with protection dogs. We work with a dog trainer who has every conceivable certification. I myself am not certified, but am considered very knowledgeable on dog training.
I'm stunned by some of the advice in this thread. One piece in particular is so ill-informed and dangerous that following it almost certainly would lead to death with a feral pack.
Dogs are pack animals. They think of everything as pack or prey. When Fluffy chases the little teddy bear that I throw, that is prey hunting behavior. You might think that it is cute, but it rises instinctively in her and she cannot resist the call of fast moving prey. Dogs don't attack because they fear you. They attack because you are prey. They retreat when they are in fear and will only bite in fear if they cannot retreat.
Absolutely no dog trainer would ever get down to the dog's level to establish rapport with any unknown dog. The dog is trying to understand where you stand in the pack or if you are prey. You either establish yourself by calm detached behavior as a leader, or you are a follower in he pack or you are prey.
Feral dogs prefer to run in packs. They are not really interested in letting any human into their pack. When dogs run in packs, any human nearby is a threat to their pack, or will be determined to be potential prey. They will either move away from a threat, or engage it to test it, and if the human looks like prey, they may attack.
Please kindly disregard any advice to get down to a dog's level unless you know the dog and have established yourself as the dog's leader. You cannot do this with a feral pack. Therefore when you are down, you are prey.
If advice has the potential to get people killed, it is best not to be given.
I think this is why God created high-capacity magazines.
I'm stunned by some of the advice in this thread. One piece in particular is so ill-informed and dangerous that following it almost certainly would lead to death with a feral pack.
Dogs are pack animals. They think of everything as pack or prey. When Fluffy chases the little teddy bear that I throw, that is prey hunting behavior. You might think that it is cute, but it rises instinctively in her and she cannot resist the call of fast moving prey. Dogs don't attack because they fear you. They attack because you are prey. They retreat when they are in fear and will only bite in fear if they cannot retreat.
Absolutely no dog trainer would ever get down to the dog's level to establish rapport with any unknown dog. The dog is trying to understand where you stand in the pack or if you are prey. You either establish yourself by calm detached behavior as a leader, or you are a follower in he pack or you are prey.
Feral dogs prefer to run in packs. They are not really interested in letting any human into their pack. When dogs run in packs, any human nearby is a threat to their pack, or will be determined to be potential prey. They will either move away from a threat, or engage it to test it, and if the human looks like prey, they may attack.
Please kindly disregard any advice to get down to a dog's level unless you know the dog and have established yourself as the dog's leader. You cannot do this with a feral pack. Therefore when you are down, you are prey.
If advice has the potential to get people killed, it is best not to be given.
I think this is why God created high-capacity magazines.
troy_mclure
New member
aarondhgraham, i had a similar incident happen to my 8 year old(at the time) sister. a local dog had her "treed" on a tire swing in our yard, snarling and growling. i called the neighbor who said "chubby wouldnt hurt a fly, just shoo him home".
when i walked out the door the dog charged me, so i came back out with 12 rounds of .22 short. i hit the dog at least 5 times, most as it was running away.
if an animal becomes a threat it does not deserve "mercy", it needs to be killed, if it dies in my yard or runs off to the woods the result is the same.
when i walked out the door the dog charged me, so i came back out with 12 rounds of .22 short. i hit the dog at least 5 times, most as it was running away.
if an animal becomes a threat it does not deserve "mercy", it needs to be killed, if it dies in my yard or runs off to the woods the result is the same.
Two dogs rip elderly man's arm off 06/13/11. Just happened today.
http://clipsyndicate.com/video/playlist/8178/2538209?wpid=1904
http://clipsyndicate.com/video/playlist/8178/2538209?wpid=1904
Amen
I am a human. A dog is a dog. I will not submit to an aggressive dog in any way. I don't care how some people feel about this.
As for the pack mentality being broken by the dispatching of one or more dogs. . . .
I would say depends mostly on the breed, and/or size of the pack. Many dogs will be scared by noise or the demise of one of their own. Some will not.
If there are any pitbull mixes, I would highly suggest dealing with them first.
Bear spray.
Much easier to use than a pistol; generally does not have any legal fallout or, "You what?! You shot my dog!!!". A shotgun is a great option; however, is not "practical" in many surroundings (think the 'burbs, urban, neighborhoods...)
In my lifetime I have been bitten thrice, attacked more than that, and advanced upon many times by dogs; not to mention my "encounters" with the bear, the moose and once upon a time (and in another place) the mountain lion.
I have intervened twice this spring, getting between dogs chasing a teenage girl and an elderly couple out for a walk; both times I stopped while driving down a paved road and jumped out to assist. All three were very afraid and felt certain that the dogs were going to attack/bite them. Same dogs on both occasions. Tracked down the owners who had no idea their precious little pets were chasing people a mile from their home. Pack mentality; and it only takes two to start a pack. (Since that time I have heard that they walk them on leash and do not allow them to run free.)
When I lived in the bush, it was common practice to shoot loose dogs on sight; this in a village with sled dogs, but also the year's meat/fish drying/stored outside not to forget the children who also played outside.
I have seen firsthand the effects of: bear spray, harsh words, big sticks, and the application of hot lead. Cloud of bear spray turns 'em away. Not always so with the other options that I have witnessed. I was shocked by just how many rounds some dogs can "absorb" and keep coming when I witnessed a defensive shooting in a dog attack firsthand.
Dogs can be very territorial. And some have BIG territories.
First, be prepared to STOP the aggression. I hike daily and always carry bear spray; then again I live where there are big bears, and moose, and wolves, and dogs... and I see them all the time. I also carry a 10mm auto and often a 300 H&H magnum or 12 gauge shotgun; after all, it is always hunting season where I live, different game sometimes but always hunting season.
Second, SOLVE the problem. If you are seeing the same dogs "out and about", and especially if they are being aggressive, find out where they are coming from and either (or both) contact the owners and "Animal Control". If they don't take care of it, you may have to.
PS I have been around dogs all of my life, currently have three; none of them runs around loose/unattended. And for what it is worth, my folks do let their dogs run free, and have had them "bring back"/as in right on their tails bears and mountain lions just about to their front door; sometimes requiring a trip to the vets for some stitches for the dogs. (Not near where I live, but many many many miles south.)
I read the entire thread, and as some folks say, I totally disagree with putting oneself at dog level (kneeling) to calm the dogs down. Standing tall is not an option, as well. If the pack is showing aggressiveness, your only option is to discourage them from attacking. That means you have to be more vicious than they are, so they feel threatened and retreat.
I've had dogs most of my life. Dogs the kind people call "dangerous". Two American Staffordshire Terriers and a Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Curiously enough, now we have two Yorkshire Terriers (and I wish some day, they'd be as disciplined and obedient as the Staffords were). Never a problem with those massive jaws, but they got the right training.
I wouldn't reccomend any type of spray. That is to be used when they are already too close. My choice would be a high cap semiauto, and perhaps a laser mounted system for quick target acquisition, ready to go when out of the holster. That makes it a Glock 17.
I've had dogs most of my life. Dogs the kind people call "dangerous". Two American Staffordshire Terriers and a Staffordshire Bull Terrier. Curiously enough, now we have two Yorkshire Terriers (and I wish some day, they'd be as disciplined and obedient as the Staffords were). Never a problem with those massive jaws, but they got the right training.
I wouldn't reccomend any type of spray. That is to be used when they are already too close. My choice would be a high cap semiauto, and perhaps a laser mounted system for quick target acquisition, ready to go when out of the holster. That makes it a Glock 17.
micromontenegro
New member
I absolutely agree.
Won't bore you with my CV, but suffice to say that I am serious enough about dogs that I have bred two world champions (FCI WDS), and all of my children have started showing dogs at the minimum age of 5. Sometimes, my whole life revolves around dogs.
And my humble opinion is that getting down to meet the height of an aggressive dog(s) could amount to suicide.
I've been in several scary incidents with individual dogs and small packs, and all of them have been successfully solved by the proper "I am not scared of you, and attacking me is a bad idea" attitude. Only once, confronted with a large pack, had to shoot the leader, which promptly squealed and sent all the pack running away.
BTW, a solid chest hit with a 380 at about 8 yards didn't seem to cause any incapacitation- he just run like hell with the rest. He was a German Shepherd.
Another BTW, I am not implying that shooting the alpha will scatter a pack. This is just one experience. But it is worth a try.
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spclPatrolGroup
New member
We were testing an old can of bear spray, to see how far it would shoot, and figuring it would keep the bunnies away from the apple trees. Well the wind wasnt exactly calm and some wafted back at us, even with such a mild does, it was pretty intense, like when you scratch your eye when eating hot wings. I would not want to mace myself with a bunch of dogs around me, I would rather be swinging an aluminum baseball bat which isnt effected by wind. Or better yet have a pistol, or even better yet, pick those suckers off from 200 yards with the 22-250.
Onward Allusion
New member
Ok - after reading through 3 pages of thoughts, I have to add my .02.
- Only a moron would get on their knees to try to calm an agitated dog that is not yours. It's a good way to get mauled or killed.
- Animals not only kill/attack for food or out of fear. Some kill/attack out of INSTINCT. Don't believe it? Look at fluffy and a bird or mouse. How about fido and the squirrel? Still others do it out of TERRITORY.
- Those who would dispatch a neighbor's dog for growling at them because it is on their porch would only start a war with their neighbor. A better way would be to spray the dog with pepper spray the first couple of times. If the situation continues even after the neighbor is talked to, THEN kill the animal. Cover your butt by calling the authorities on the first couple of incidents.
- If the area allows for it (i.e. little to no people and legal with firearm laws), culling feral dogs and cats should be done whenever possible.
- Finally, a human life is worth that of 1,000,000+ dogs. Those who think otherwise need to have their heads examined.
- Only a moron would get on their knees to try to calm an agitated dog that is not yours. It's a good way to get mauled or killed.
- Animals not only kill/attack for food or out of fear. Some kill/attack out of INSTINCT. Don't believe it? Look at fluffy and a bird or mouse. How about fido and the squirrel? Still others do it out of TERRITORY.
- Those who would dispatch a neighbor's dog for growling at them because it is on their porch would only start a war with their neighbor. A better way would be to spray the dog with pepper spray the first couple of times. If the situation continues even after the neighbor is talked to, THEN kill the animal. Cover your butt by calling the authorities on the first couple of incidents.
- If the area allows for it (i.e. little to no people and legal with firearm laws), culling feral dogs and cats should be done whenever possible.
- Finally, a human life is worth that of 1,000,000+ dogs. Those who think otherwise need to have their heads examined.
fightingbard
New member
Hi,
Okey, I stand corrected about my idea, regarding "dog attacks are very rare". If this many people witnessed these incidents, it means they are not rare.
I will try and mention a few issues, previously mentioned on the thread.
1. Some people actually calculated the value of life among the living.
This means if this thread goes on, we can see writings such as: 1 human = 2 cows= 30 cats = 1 mil. insects.....etc.
Excuse me for saying but, it is my belief that, no one and I mean no one should dare to estimate a value for life.
What will normally go after this will start a moral and ethical discussion, so I will not go on.
2. If people who are actually working with animals on their jobs, say that "animals kill for the joy of killing" I will try and believe them.
On the other hand I will never believe that they are or call animals blood thirsty. Animals may kill for joy, but to point out I do not think an animal will say kill 2000 ducks in one hunt just for fun.
Not to mention the fact that we slaughtered our kind for centuries and centuries over power. And we still do.
However we play "pretend" very well..
Best
Okey, I stand corrected about my idea, regarding "dog attacks are very rare". If this many people witnessed these incidents, it means they are not rare.
I will try and mention a few issues, previously mentioned on the thread.
1. Some people actually calculated the value of life among the living.
This means if this thread goes on, we can see writings such as: 1 human = 2 cows= 30 cats = 1 mil. insects.....etc.
Excuse me for saying but, it is my belief that, no one and I mean no one should dare to estimate a value for life.
What will normally go after this will start a moral and ethical discussion, so I will not go on.
2. If people who are actually working with animals on their jobs, say that "animals kill for the joy of killing" I will try and believe them.
On the other hand I will never believe that they are or call animals blood thirsty. Animals may kill for joy, but to point out I do not think an animal will say kill 2000 ducks in one hunt just for fun.
Not to mention the fact that we slaughtered our kind for centuries and centuries over power. And we still do.
However we play "pretend" very well..
Best
aarondhgraham
New member
I did talk to the neighbor,,,
Again I ask,,,
Should I have waited until the dog bit my 79 year old dad?
I did talk to the neighbor,,,
He blew me and the problem off,,,
If it starts a war (which it didn't) then so be it.
A low throated growl from a dog is the same as an,,,
"I'm gonna kick your @$$" from a human,,,
Both can deserve an armed response.
Aarond
Again I ask,,,
Should I have waited until the dog bit my 79 year old dad?
I did talk to the neighbor,,,
He blew me and the problem off,,,
If it starts a war (which it didn't) then so be it.
A low throated growl from a dog is the same as an,,,
"I'm gonna kick your @$$" from a human,,,
Both can deserve an armed response.
Aarond
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