Aguila Blanca
Staff
Posting as a moderator, I am reminding everyone that CAPMJUSTICE asked a specific question, and set out specific criteria. I'm sure you all want to be helpful but, since he didn't create the prerequisites, there is nothing constructive to be gained by suggesting that he do something other than what the pastor has called for. So let's not have any more of such discussion. If you don't have something constructive to post that's in line with the established parameters ... save your thoughts for a discussion where they'll fit.
Posting as a forum member, I'll add that those who have not been involved in church politics should consider their words carefully when posting, because you're getting into unknown territory. I have had exposure to church politics. My father was a deacon for many years in the church in which I grew up. More recently, I was involved in the pastor search committee when our minister retired and we needed to find a replacement. And a good friend has been deeply involved in a mostly futile effort to get a security team up and running at the church he and his family attend.
On the surface, the attitude of many church governing bodies appears to be hypocrisy -- they want a security team for "protection," but they don't want guns. If you dig deeper, I think what you discover is that it's not hypocrisy, it's deeply ingrained ignorance coupled with magical thinking. There is a healthy dose of "It can't happen here, we're good people." The recent rash of shootings in churches and synagogues proves that (as a Rabbi said in the title of his book several years ago) sometimes bad things happen to good people. Comparing the results of the two heavily reported church shootings in Texas, the obvious conclusion is that armed, trained security is more effective than reliance on magic.
However, far too many members of the clergy and members of church governing board are still "squishy" on the notion of letting parishioners know there are guns in the church. So it's hardly a surprise to me that CAP's pastor requested that any firearm remain concealed. I would expect that. The subject never came up at the church my late wife and I attended. It didn't come up because I didn't raise it -- I carried, but I didn't even tell my wife. I think she would have been shocked if I had told her. (Disclaimer: since shortly after her death a few years ago I stopped going. Church was one of our "together" activities, and attending without her was too painful.)
My point is, do not discount the effect of church politics. It often doesn't make sense, but "Their house, their rules." My friend's pastor is the same as CAP's -- my friend has made it clear that his pastor doesn't want to see any guns, doesn't want the parishioners to know if/when there are guns in the church, and isn't willing for the church to underwrite any training for a security team. But ... he wants a security team.
That's what I call magical thinking. This leaves my friend feeling like he has been thrown under the bus. He knows what's needed, and he's not allowed to do it.
CAPMJUSTICE is between a rock and a hard place here. We should try to help him by responding thoughtfully to his question, not by suggesting that he try to go up against his pastor or ignore the pastor's clear criteria.
Posting as a forum member, I'll add that those who have not been involved in church politics should consider their words carefully when posting, because you're getting into unknown territory. I have had exposure to church politics. My father was a deacon for many years in the church in which I grew up. More recently, I was involved in the pastor search committee when our minister retired and we needed to find a replacement. And a good friend has been deeply involved in a mostly futile effort to get a security team up and running at the church he and his family attend.
On the surface, the attitude of many church governing bodies appears to be hypocrisy -- they want a security team for "protection," but they don't want guns. If you dig deeper, I think what you discover is that it's not hypocrisy, it's deeply ingrained ignorance coupled with magical thinking. There is a healthy dose of "It can't happen here, we're good people." The recent rash of shootings in churches and synagogues proves that (as a Rabbi said in the title of his book several years ago) sometimes bad things happen to good people. Comparing the results of the two heavily reported church shootings in Texas, the obvious conclusion is that armed, trained security is more effective than reliance on magic.
However, far too many members of the clergy and members of church governing board are still "squishy" on the notion of letting parishioners know there are guns in the church. So it's hardly a surprise to me that CAP's pastor requested that any firearm remain concealed. I would expect that. The subject never came up at the church my late wife and I attended. It didn't come up because I didn't raise it -- I carried, but I didn't even tell my wife. I think she would have been shocked if I had told her. (Disclaimer: since shortly after her death a few years ago I stopped going. Church was one of our "together" activities, and attending without her was too painful.)
My point is, do not discount the effect of church politics. It often doesn't make sense, but "Their house, their rules." My friend's pastor is the same as CAP's -- my friend has made it clear that his pastor doesn't want to see any guns, doesn't want the parishioners to know if/when there are guns in the church, and isn't willing for the church to underwrite any training for a security team. But ... he wants a security team.
That's what I call magical thinking. This leaves my friend feeling like he has been thrown under the bus. He knows what's needed, and he's not allowed to do it.
CAPMJUSTICE is between a rock and a hard place here. We should try to help him by responding thoughtfully to his question, not by suggesting that he try to go up against his pastor or ignore the pastor's clear criteria.
