Bear PROTECTION, not Bear Hunting

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Cosmodragoon said:
buck460XVR,.

Given your name, I can't resist. Have you done any of this stuff with your XVR?
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I have done the drill with it, but my .460 is a 10 1/2" PC hunting revolver. Not really what one would use for a trail gun for Blackie defense. It sure blew some damn big dirt clods up tho.........:D

Cosmodragoon said:
I don't think I'd be so harsh on people asking questions though. It's a different world now and lots of younger people have grown up with it. The need to know people locally to learn about things or get into a hobby is just less than it used to be. It also means that more people are curious about these things and are getting into them. If you don't have a friend or family member who knows, or you want to double check that "dude who knows everything", this is a pretty good place to do it.
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Sometimes, being harsh is just being realistic. IMHO, if folks don't have the knowledge of what caliber, what platform and what kind of ammo it takes, they also don't have the proficiency to use any of them, in a emergency scenario. It takes little knowledge, and little practice to become proficient with bear spray. Like with a firearm, it also takes steady nerves and patience. One thing my drill shows me is how folks(especially those with semi-autos) empty the gun before the ball gets to point blank range. It also shows me how they follow up their shots without retaking aim. It's also difficult at best to keep a lead on a target that is moving towards you and you need to continue to pull the gun down to keep that lead. IOWs, most misses are high and behind. I'd bet most failures with bear spray is because folks have emptied their can when the bear was still 20-30 yards away. To be proficient enough to shoot a charging bear with a handgun, takes a lot of practice. By the time one is proficient enough with a handgun to do this, they know what gun, what caliber and what ammo to use. Until then, they are better off with bear spray. This is not being harsh....just being real.
 
On top of that, bear spray hits at a BLINDING pressure at 40ft, while also misting in a 10ft radius
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So it has a mist....
Bear Spray costs $40.

With $40 you can see there isn't going to be "blow back" in the wind and you're repeating something you don't know about.

It goes 40ft. 40ft still with pressure. So it's not a light mist blown by your jogger pepper spray. It hits like a garden hose AT 40ft.
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No wait it doesn't...

Wild cat, which is it? Mist that can blow back on the user or a stream with no mist? I hope for your sake that on the day you need your bear spray that the breeze I usually feel when I'm on the Wasatch is blowing the right direction. But I will wager that the wind will be blowing either cross wind or directly in your face. Otherwise the bear would have smelled you and left long before you got close enough to provoke an attack.

Carry both and be wise about which to use and when.
 
Yogi Baby

Adding my 2 cents as regards caliber choice to the other excellent choices: .41 Mag.

There are several factory loads using 210gr cast bullets that will address your black bear concerns. Federal offers a factory round loaded with 250 grain hard cast bullets moving out around 1250 fps from a 6 inch barrel.
If you reload, not only will your choices open up as to the "perfect" Black bear load, you can turn down .41mag brass 1/10th inch to make .41 Special loads for practice. I now believe commercially manufactured .41 Special brass is available.
 
Never once in my life have a met a person with a real bear story. Not once.
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My dad was attacked by a grizzly in yellowstone, a ranger shot it and killed it.

I was only about seven years old? when we went to give it its last rites I kicked it and yelled at it. Is that good enough?
 
Ok. So I watched several videos on YouTube. None of them sprayed anywhere near 40'. And all of them made a huge cloud of mist. And in a few the person spraying or running the camera got choked up from the mist contact.

Can you link a video showing a stream that shoots 40'? I would like to see it.

I am not saying it isn't effective, just that you have to wait until the bear is very close and watch the wind. Most people don't have the nerve to wait until a charging bear is less than 20 feet away. Equally few will be the people that can hold their fire with a gun until that range as well.
 
big al hunter said:
I am not saying it isn't effective, just that you have to wait until the bear is very close and watch the wind. Most people don't have the nerve to wait until a charging bear is less than 20 feet away. Equally few will be the people that can hold their fire with a gun until that range as well.
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There is anecdotal evidence, which is what one gets a lot of on these types of forums and then there is factual evidence such as this.....

Q. Wouldn’t I stand a better chance against a bear if I had a gun rather than bear spray?

A. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has studied this question, and the answer is decidedly no, even assuming you’re an expert marksman with nerves of steel. Based on an investigation of human-bear encounters since 1992, people defending themselves against grizzlies with firearms were injured some 50% of the time, while those who used bear spray escaped without injury most of the time.
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This is why I question those folks that dispel the use and effectiveness of bear spray. It should never be "which gun instead of bear spray?", but "what gun along with bear spray?" Folks come up with all kinds of excuses like the wind and spraying yourself along with the bear. Still, iffin you wait till the bear is within the effective range, it doesn't really matter. Iffin your own eyes and nose are stinging after the bear is gone, does it matter as long as you are alive and uninjured? Is that any different than folks that worry about shooting their SD/CWC weapon at the BG without ear protection?
 
Still, iffin you wait till the bear is within the effective range, it doesn't really matter. Iffin your own eyes and nose are stinging after the bear is gone, does it matter as long as you are alive and uninjured?
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I guess I should be more specific. Carry both spray and a gun if you are in a high probability of contact with bears. My point about the wind is that people who are terrified of bears will likely spray long before the bear is in range. If in doing so, you inadvertently spray yourself (with the help of wind), you are now blind or otherwise impaired by the affects of the spray. That makes it harder to spray again when the unaffected bear is still coming. Now your best chance is to pray that the bear doesn't like his meals spicy. :D

If there is a breeze blowing hard enough to notice then you need to wait until the bear is extremely close or use your firearm instead, and wait until it is close enough to hit the right spot ....and yes I know how likely that is. And that the bear will need time to expire if it is not a CNS hit ( even less likely).

In my experience 10 of 10 bears that I have encountered at close range (under 100 yards) went the other way. A couple of those were sows with Cubs, 1 inside of 10 yards. One of the Cubs was a few feet from me. I am familiar with the adrenaline rush and thoughts that pass through your mind when large predators are near. The vast majority of encounters end with the bear running away. We just don't hear about them in the news. Most of the time your spray and gun are just extra weight.
 
They should develop a spray that smells like skunk. THen you could just spray yourself all over with it. Bears don't like skunks right, so he'll just think you're a huge skunk and mosey away! Brilliant, I think I could make a fortune with this idea!
My dog just got skunked the other night, so I should know!
 
FWIW,my experience is just one experience.

We were in a small backpacking tent in camp.I did not surprise or encounter this bear at a kill.There were no cubs. This bear came to us as we slept.

I bought the tent new for this trip.I knew I would be among bears. Not once ever did I eat or take food into the tent. No,it was not period time. Our food/cooking was some distance from the tent,and our food stash was untouched. You can check all that off the bear expert list.

The one factor we may have overlooked was the use of common baby wet wipes. Yes,I looked that close at "Why?"

The bear pressed his paws down on her.Claws penetrated the tent.He bit her through the tent.

I unzipped the tent door and I had the equivalent of an Angus bull head in the door.Bear spray would not have been a good choice inside the tent.

I was sleeping with a loaded shotgun.Forgive me for not making the wisest move,I had not had coffee. I bonked him on the forhead with the shotgun.Not hard,just a coup tap. He jumped back and was out of sight.

After I exited the tent,Mr Bear had a barking Chesapeake and three hollering adults inviting him to leave. He was slowly,quietly,with no drama focused on me,and he was advancing.He did not flinch at a warning shot.He might have been 25 yds.I don't recall exactly.

I had one hurt person,200 river miles,and 7 hours of washboard gravel to get to Fairbanks.

If any gun or bear experts have any better solutions than my 12 gauge with slugs killing him.I'm open to suggestion
 
HiBC, I would say you did the right thing. Sounds like you were being stalked by a hungry bear intent on eating someone. Is that the conclusion that you came to? Sounds like you put a good bit of thought to it.
 
Yes.That is the conclusion.
I was visiting a brother stationed in AK.He offered me a bear hunt,as it was possible. I had no interest in a bear trophy,or dealing with bear meat flying back to Colorado. I had no interest in shooting a bear just to watch him fall.I declined the bear hunt.We went fishing. For Shefish. Never caught one.

I put some forethought into going into AK bear country. I put some study into it after.

We camped in Denali after ,just wife was healing so we stayed in camp.We werenin grizzly country.Saw several.We didn't bother them,they didn't bother us. It was not quite lawful,but I had my SBH in my backpack.

I'm not real wound up in the "charge"thing. Though,sure,that can happen.

We were camped at the foot of Denali....Wonder Lake? Mirror Lake? I forget.Misty grey dawn a helicopter showed up to extract some guy and his gear .A grizzly scrapped his camp and harassed him all night.

I did not want to shoot that bear.If you offered me a guided trophy brown bear hunt in the Kenai,I'd say "Nah" I'm just not into killing bears.Or lions or tigers,or elephants,etc.

I'm NOT into being helpless.
 
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Was the bear you killed a brown bear? I'm guessing so, but i don't remember your saying.

I've heard stories of brown bears rolling around on grass that had been recently sprayed with bear-spray, and seemingly liking it. Maybe they have to inhale it to be repelled by it.
 
Thanks. My son in Alaska (in Haines, in SE) has told me before that the old timers around there HAVE told him that the black bears there CAN also be extremely dangerous.
 
I am not saying it isn't effective, just that you have to wait until the bear is very close and watch the wind.
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Right, that's the proximity problem ...

You'd have to gauge the bear's closing distance and speed just right while you're waiting to 'perfume' him with Wildcat Mcdude's guaranteed '40-foot' 'killer' spray, :rolleyes: ... whereas with a handgun that you've trained with, you can start firing from further away, and wind is a non-issue.

Most people don't have the nerve to wait until a charging bear is less than 20 feet away.
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Nope, they'd faint or crap their pants, or both, right after throwing the can at the bear and having about as much effect as the 2nd string pitcher on a 6th-grade girls team. :rolleyes:

Equally few will be the people that can hold their fire with a gun until that range as well.
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Well, you'd open fire when you sensed the charge is real. Why wait?

Bear Spray = B.S. Simple as that.

Carry enough gun, and know how and where to hit with it.
 
So,agtman,

I get it that you found a couple of decent guys with an assortmemt of guns ,a bear target and a sled who live in AK.

They made a fun video and its interesting.I'm not knocking them.

I'm not knocking you.

My practice was shooting tires rolling down a hill.

I'm curious . What personal experience or expertise do you yourself actually have to base your adamant opinions on? Its OK you have them,but what are they based on?


How did you get so sure?


You can believe whatever you want,and make what choices you want to protect yourself,but you are expressing disrespect for other folks and giving advice that is not backed up
 
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I was reading up on bear spray. In the expected standard laws are often stupid category.....
There are multiple states where it is illegal to buy pepper spray, but legal to buy bear spray.
Oi-vey!
 
I have done the drill with it, but my .460 is a 10 1/2" PC hunting revolver. Not really what one would use for a trail gun for Blackie defense. It sure blew some damn big dirt clods up tho......... :D
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I have the basic 8ish" XVR. It's a beautiful boat anchor that could substitute for a rifle on woods walks. I haven't tried anything fancy with mine. I've mostly used it for blowing up static water melons, water jugs, etc. There was one unlucky woodchuck. Hornady's "budget option", a 200-grain flex tip sailing around 2200 fps, made a real mess...
 
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