Bear PROTECTION, not Bear Hunting
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HighValleyRanch
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But really, what bear runs in a perfectly straight line as on a sled?
wild cat mccane
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Avid back country hiker every weekend here from Utah. Do it in Alaska 3 times year just for fun too Hi.
Never once in my life have a met a person with a real bear story. Not once.
Never once in my life have a met a person with a real bear story. Not once.
To all who wondered why someone would carry bear spray AND a suitable handgun, I think the answer is obvious. What do you do IF the spray doesn't work????
I find some comfort in the thought that the odds are that I would not be instantly killed or rendered immobile the instant the bear reaches me. As long as that's the case, then there is a chance that a pistol might safe your life. Perhaps not much, but more than one would have if you didn't have a pistol on you.
One bowhunter survived a grizzly attack and killed the bear by stabbing it repeatedly with a broadhead arrow. He was horribly injured, but he survived. If you put all your faith in bear spray, I wish you well.
I find some comfort in the thought that the odds are that I would not be instantly killed or rendered immobile the instant the bear reaches me. As long as that's the case, then there is a chance that a pistol might safe your life. Perhaps not much, but more than one would have if you didn't have a pistol on you.
One bowhunter survived a grizzly attack and killed the bear by stabbing it repeatedly with a broadhead arrow. He was horribly injured, but he survived. If you put all your faith in bear spray, I wish you well.
Cosmodragoon
New member
I said earlier that bear spray would be good unless you were already carrying a gun and were already at your maximum for comfortably carried gear. IRL, that's always been the case for me. My pockets are full. There is stuff on my belt. I'm already carrying a bigger firearm than I would for civilized EDC. I have never once chosen to try squeezing bear spray into my woodland carry nor pepper spray into my EDC.
Given my total lack of field testing of spray-based defensive tools, some consideration of how they work, and some analysis of pepper spray for civilian EDC; the doubts some of you have raised here over bear spray are resonating with me. I'll amend my recommendation to "could be" a good idea under specific circumstances and stick to ".357 or 10mm with the right ammo should be fine for black bear".
Given my total lack of field testing of spray-based defensive tools, some consideration of how they work, and some analysis of pepper spray for civilian EDC; the doubts some of you have raised here over bear spray are resonating with me. I'll amend my recommendation to "could be" a good idea under specific circumstances and stick to ".357 or 10mm with the right ammo should be fine for black bear".
Wildcat:
I have never met you,but I have a bear experience. 6 foot six nose to tail. Male black bear.Fit the pattern of predator behavior.Bit my wife.We were 200 river miles from the road.I had a 20 in bbl Win 97 12 ga and I killed him..I have little doubt that if I was unarmed we would have had a far more terrible,perhaps fatal experience.Junction of the Yukon and Nowitna Rivers
I live in northern Coorado.I've been told :"I;ve spent 40 years here outside and never seen a rattlesnake:"(Snakes don't bother me.I leave them alone if they aren't in my yard.)
That tells me the person is not good at spotting snakes.Come a warm day in the spring I know a trail I usually hear or see two or three. I've seen a lion on that same trail that ws unimpressed that I was a human.
With respect for those who can tell us typical book bear behavior,bears don't read books.They are individuals.You can describe typical human behavior all you want,Ted Bundy was out there.A bear does what he feels like doing.
Even among livestock,cattle and horses,you will last longer if you consider them unpredictable.
I'll say it again,I own suitable handguns,I have a 5 in bbl SBH. It will do.Two handed,I thumb during recoil and its as fast as any 44 magnum for the wheel full.What matters is that its an old friend.It always works,and it points like my finger.Is it the BEST bear defense gun? No. I have it.It will do.
If I was going to buy a new bear handgun,it would be a Glock 20 10mm with a Lone Wolf grooved barrel,laded with 200 gr plus Buff Bore,or equivalent.
If you want to use a 9mm,that up to yu.Its your butt.
Before I went to the bushes in AK,I went to the museum in Fairbanks and studied bear anatomy a bit.The nose has spongy sinus cavity up into the brain pan.
My shotgun only had a white bead.I held on the nose and took out his lower teeth.He went down and got right back up.My second shot broke his neck.
In both cass,the lead Foster slug showed disappointing penetration.
I've followed the video adventures of a Woman who solo hiked (with occasional companions) the Appalachian Trail,the Pacific Rim Trail,and the Continental Divide Trail.
She was alone,at night,among black bears,lions,and grizzlies.
She did a vid about it (bears,spray,guns,etc) She comes from a shooting family,and is gun friendly. She mostly said "Its your choice,I'm not going to tell you what to do.Here are things to consider"
These trails took her through several states,jurisdictions,National Parks,etc.
She suggested to consider legalities.Especially Appalachian and Pacific Rim trails. If its not open carry,its too slow.Open carry,you will meet other hikers.Word will travel if they see you armed. Guns are heavier than bear spray. She carried spray,and kept it handy eating,sleeping,bathing,etc.
Spray may not be perfect. I place more faith in a gun. But spray beats helpless.Stats say its pretty good.
AK is pretty serious about game laws. A SD bear shoot requires turning in the head and hide,paperwork,and an interview. Bear spray,assuming it works,might suggest advising a game warden of a problem bear. How you spend your vacation time is up to you.We had an injury,no ice or salt,we had more than 24 hours travel to get to a hospital.We left the meat,and had no problem,but without an injured person,leaving the meat may have been a serious issue. I don't know for sure.
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I have never met you,but I have a bear experience. 6 foot six nose to tail. Male black bear.Fit the pattern of predator behavior.Bit my wife.We were 200 river miles from the road.I had a 20 in bbl Win 97 12 ga and I killed him..I have little doubt that if I was unarmed we would have had a far more terrible,perhaps fatal experience.Junction of the Yukon and Nowitna Rivers
I live in northern Coorado.I've been told :"I;ve spent 40 years here outside and never seen a rattlesnake:"(Snakes don't bother me.I leave them alone if they aren't in my yard.)
That tells me the person is not good at spotting snakes.Come a warm day in the spring I know a trail I usually hear or see two or three. I've seen a lion on that same trail that ws unimpressed that I was a human.
With respect for those who can tell us typical book bear behavior,bears don't read books.They are individuals.You can describe typical human behavior all you want,Ted Bundy was out there.A bear does what he feels like doing.
Even among livestock,cattle and horses,you will last longer if you consider them unpredictable.
I'll say it again,I own suitable handguns,I have a 5 in bbl SBH. It will do.Two handed,I thumb during recoil and its as fast as any 44 magnum for the wheel full.What matters is that its an old friend.It always works,and it points like my finger.Is it the BEST bear defense gun? No. I have it.It will do.
If I was going to buy a new bear handgun,it would be a Glock 20 10mm with a Lone Wolf grooved barrel,laded with 200 gr plus Buff Bore,or equivalent.
If you want to use a 9mm,that up to yu.Its your butt.
Before I went to the bushes in AK,I went to the museum in Fairbanks and studied bear anatomy a bit.The nose has spongy sinus cavity up into the brain pan.
My shotgun only had a white bead.I held on the nose and took out his lower teeth.He went down and got right back up.My second shot broke his neck.
In both cass,the lead Foster slug showed disappointing penetration.
I've followed the video adventures of a Woman who solo hiked (with occasional companions) the Appalachian Trail,the Pacific Rim Trail,and the Continental Divide Trail.
She was alone,at night,among black bears,lions,and grizzlies.
She did a vid about it (bears,spray,guns,etc) She comes from a shooting family,and is gun friendly. She mostly said "Its your choice,I'm not going to tell you what to do.Here are things to consider"
These trails took her through several states,jurisdictions,National Parks,etc.
She suggested to consider legalities.Especially Appalachian and Pacific Rim trails. If its not open carry,its too slow.Open carry,you will meet other hikers.Word will travel if they see you armed. Guns are heavier than bear spray. She carried spray,and kept it handy eating,sleeping,bathing,etc.
Spray may not be perfect. I place more faith in a gun. But spray beats helpless.Stats say its pretty good.
AK is pretty serious about game laws. A SD bear shoot requires turning in the head and hide,paperwork,and an interview. Bear spray,assuming it works,might suggest advising a game warden of a problem bear. How you spend your vacation time is up to you.We had an injury,no ice or salt,we had more than 24 hours travel to get to a hospital.We left the meat,and had no problem,but without an injured person,leaving the meat may have been a serious issue. I don't know for sure.
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Mike_Fontenot
New member
Good post, HiBC!
HighValleyRanch
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deleted....I can't BEAR to get into these debates!
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buck460XVR
New member
Yes it was. It came from somebody with personnel experience and knowledge gained from researching bears and their anatomy before he had an incident. Problem I have with most of these "What gun for bear" threads that include the statement " and don't tell me to get bear spray" are from folks that have little or no knowledge of bear behavior or what it takes to stop them in their tracks. At my personnel gun range, I have a tether-ball hooked up to a retractable reel(old commercial cord reel) with about 100 feet of rope. The ball is about the size of the kill zone or the CNS that needs to be hit when being attacked, and the speed of the reel is about the speed of a charging bear or other dangerous game. Guess how many folks, even those well experienced in shooting handguns can hit it, even tho it is coming in a straight line, directly towards them? This is in a scenario where there is little pressure and little or no adrenaline pumping thru their veins. Missing does not mean death, only a few jeers.......generally from other folks that missed too.
IMHO, folks that need to ask random strangers on the internet the question...."What gun for bears?" are those that are the best candidates for bear spray.
Buck dude, thanks for (re-)making my earlier point (see my highly informative Post #34).
That was exactly what the two shooters demonstrated in those YouTube vids ('Charging Bear drills'), by shooting various firearms at a moving sled-target meant to 'simulate' a Grizzly charge.
Yeah, the pulled sled was slower than the speed of a real Grizz, it lacked the head movement that Grizzlys exhibit during charges (which would only make a head-shot more difficult), and the sled moved the bear target more or less in a straight-line - which they were anticipating anyway, not caught by surprise.
Even with all that, both shooters had a number of clean misses or only marginal hits, depending on which handgun or shotgun they used. As noted, it seemed they got more accurate shot-placement into a vital area with the autoloaders versus the wheelguns.
But how would they have fared in a real, sudden Grizz charge with their adrenaline pumping?
If the vids are any indication, I'd put their survival chances at about 50/50, and then only with a lot of luck.
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Andy Blozinski
New member
"Not interested in Bear Spray either. "
Why are you guys saying anything about bear spray? He specifically said he didn't want it and yet you keep talking.
Every time some new person asks about .380 pistols there's always a bunch of tough talking know it alls that tell them .380s suck and they should get a .45 or something. It's kind of rude and more calling attention to one's self than helping the person that asked about a specific subject and needs useful assistance on that subject.
Why are you guys saying anything about bear spray? He specifically said he didn't want it and yet you keep talking.
Every time some new person asks about .380 pistols there's always a bunch of tough talking know it alls that tell them .380s suck and they should get a .45 or something. It's kind of rude and more calling attention to one's self than helping the person that asked about a specific subject and needs useful assistance on that subject.
wild cat mccane
New member
We are saying bear spray because some of us know what we are talking about.
Sorry, nothing is more over sold in this world than the fear induced purchase of a huge gun for bear. On top of that, bear spray hits at a BLINDING pressure at 40ft, while also misting in a 10ft radius, designed for the most heat units for bear specifically, and works about every single charge ever documented.
If someone doesn't want solid advice from avid hikers and outdoor people? Fine.
I like the big revolvers and own them. But I'm not kidding myself that it's better when I'm in hiking Homer, Alaska or walking out my front door to hike the Wasatch Front on a weekend basis.
Sorry, nothing is more over sold in this world than the fear induced purchase of a huge gun for bear. On top of that, bear spray hits at a BLINDING pressure at 40ft, while also misting in a 10ft radius, designed for the most heat units for bear specifically, and works about every single charge ever documented.
If someone doesn't want solid advice from avid hikers and outdoor people? Fine.
I like the big revolvers and own them. But I'm not kidding myself that it's better when I'm in hiking Homer, Alaska or walking out my front door to hike the Wasatch Front on a weekend basis.
HighValleyRanch
New member
I saw a documentary recounting how some hunters used bear spray against a grizzly attack.
The spray blew back into the defenders eyes and he was blinded leading to an attack by the bear. So as the saying goes don't pee into the wind! And hope and pray that if and when a bear attack does happen when you are using spray that the wind is calm or on your side!
By the way, a bullet is not as easily affected by the wind!LOL
The spray blew back into the defenders eyes and he was blinded leading to an attack by the bear. So as the saying goes don't pee into the wind! And hope and pray that if and when a bear attack does happen when you are using spray that the wind is calm or on your side!
By the way, a bullet is not as easily affected by the wind!LOL
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That's actually happened more than once in AK and elsewhere, where the wind either blew the spray away from the bear or re-directed some or all of it back into the person's face.
Even assuming you've got a potent chemical spray capable of deterring a charging bear, the real challenge is getting an accurate and unimpeded delivery of a sufficient amount on to the bear in order to be effective.
Wind (or the absence of it), physical proximity to the bear, timing, and luck will pretty much determine that.
No laughing needed there, because it's true - especially at the distance you'd likely have to shoot a bear to stop or turn a charge.
No, actually dude, you're clueless.
i pretty much always go out armed. my ccw tends to small, in a caliber starting with a 2 or 3, because i’m usually not in apex predator (two or four legged) turf. i don’t bother with any kind of spray because i can’t practice with it. if i were in bear country my handgun would be open carried and in a 4 caliber. right now this is a ruger blackhawk, with which i’m fairly proficient. yes, single action revolver reload speed is glacial but i’m guessing that one only has time enough to shoot 5-6 rounds anyway.
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Cosmodragoon
New member
buck460XVR, I like the idea of a tether ball. You make a good point here. This also illustrates a point that Paul Harrell has made about hunting jack rabbits. Practicing with small moving targets can add a lot to our general practice, training, and recreation.
Given your name, I can't resist. Have you done any of this stuff with your XVR?
I don't think I'd be so harsh on people asking questions though. It's a different world now and lots of younger people have grown up with it. The need to know people locally to learn about things or get into a hobby is just less than it used to be. It also means that more people are curious about these things and are getting into them. If you don't have a friend or family member who knows, or you want to double check that "dude who knows everything", this is a pretty good place to do it.
Given your name, I can't resist. Have you done any of this stuff with your XVR?
I don't think I'd be so harsh on people asking questions though. It's a different world now and lots of younger people have grown up with it. The need to know people locally to learn about things or get into a hobby is just less than it used to be. It also means that more people are curious about these things and are getting into them. If you don't have a friend or family member who knows, or you want to double check that "dude who knows everything", this is a pretty good place to do it.
wild cat mccane
New member
Bear Spray costs $40.
With $40 you can see there isn't going to be "blow back" in the wind and you're repeating something you don't know about.
It goes 40ft. 40ft still with pressure. So it's not a light mist blown by your jogger pepper spray. It hits like a garden hose AT 40ft.
Clearly, you've never used it. Keep talking though...
With $40 you can see there isn't going to be "blow back" in the wind and you're repeating something you don't know about.
It goes 40ft. 40ft still with pressure. So it's not a light mist blown by your jogger pepper spray. It hits like a garden hose AT 40ft.
Clearly, you've never used it. Keep talking though...
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Pond James Pond
New member
I have zero bear experience. There. Said it.
So my advice may be bad through lack of said experience or good by sheer luck or listening to others.
My advice is bear spray because it’s cheap and effective and then 10mm because it has more shots than a six-shooter, yet remains powerful enough based on reports I’ve read on here and, whilst you’re packing for bear, I can imagine meeting an unpleasant human is also possible.
Good luck choosing. Hope you never need either, for either.
So my advice may be bad through lack of said experience or good by sheer luck or listening to others.
My advice is bear spray because it’s cheap and effective and then 10mm because it has more shots than a six-shooter, yet remains powerful enough based on reports I’ve read on here and, whilst you’re packing for bear, I can imagine meeting an unpleasant human is also possible.
Good luck choosing. Hope you never need either, for either.
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