BATFE goes postal in Richmond VA

I've never met the man, but VCDL has been getting things done in Virginia year after year. It has obviously taken a lot of planning and hard work. All I can say about the current situation is...I'm confident they're working on it and we'll hear about it when they're ready to act. I'm sorry that frustrates some people.

I like the quote on VCDL's Accomplishments page:

"They're pretty effective, I have to give them credit."
Jim Sollo, Chairman of Virginians Against Handgun Violence
Virginian Pilot - Nov 11, 2002


Speaking of the Accomplishments page, check out the following list.

John
____________________________

Instrumental in Getting Virginia's Concealed Carry Law Changed From "May Issue" to "Shall Issue" in 1995, Swelling The Number of Permit Holders From a Few Thousand in 1994 to Over 110,000 as of Mid 2002

Worked with Henrico Board of Supervisors to get ban on permit holders in Henrico parks removed

Played a key roll in getting preemption laws strengthened so that permit holders are *totally* protected from grand fathered ordinance while carrying or possessing a firearm.

Distributed Pro-Self-Defense Literature at The Stand For Children Rally in Washington, DC

Engineered a Change in Fairfax County's "Hunting Laws" to Exempt Persons Lawfully Carrying Firearms For Personal Safety From County Hunting Restrictions

Derailed "Operation Scarlet Letter" in Bath County

Stopped a Proposed City Gun Ban in Harrisonburg

The ONLY Organization to Get Pro Gun Bills Introduced in Each of The Last 6 Legislative Sessions

VCDL Originated Technical & Procedural Improvements Were Made in 1999 to The Concealed Carry Law

Pressured Lowe's Stores to Allow Concealed Carry on Premises

Worked With Legislators to Get Three Pro-Gun Bills Introduced in The 1998 Legislative Session. One, The Bill to Repeal The Ban on Carrying Concealed in Restaurants, Passed The VA Senate, Before Dying in an Anti-Gun House Committee

Defeated Fairfax County's Illegal County Facility Gun Ban Regulation in Court

Stopped Mandatory FBI Fingerprint Registration of CHP Applicants in Fairfax And Prince William Counties

Forced Fairfax County to comply with the Virginia CHP law by eliminating:

...* Personal history form
...* Police interrogation of applicant
...* Excessive fees

Forced Fairfax County Police to Revamp Their "Firearms Safety Presentation"

Compelled The Prince William County Police to Revise Its' Gun Safety Brochure

Forced Roanoke and Salem Civic Centers to remove wording from signs banning guns

Instrumental in Getting The Governor to Allow For Concealed Carry in State Parks

Got a Strengthened Preemption Bill Signed Into Law in 2002 Session, Forcing Arlington to Drop its Gun Ban in City Buildings

Had City of Richmond Remove Illegal Signs Banning Guns From City Hall Building

Stopped an Illegal Gun Ban in Henrico County Buildings

Got Cities of Richmond, Hampton, And Williamsburg And Counties of Isle of Wight And Franklin to Remove Illegal Signs Banning Guns in Parks And Libraries
_________________________
 
Johnbt;
All that maybe true but we are still waiting proof of the accusations made in the on line story. There still has been none put forward. It remains hoaxville until proven otherwise!!!
 
Ya but for three pages so far he still can't provide any proof or documentation that his report did in fact happen. No names, no first hand reports and no outside go to for proof. Just "we are working on it". In fact at least 3 people that were at the show called BS. Two people on the other forum repasted the original on line report as "proof" of the accusations???HOAX status remains in place.
 
"All that maybe true but we are still waiting proof of the accusations made in the on line story. There still has been none put forward. It remains hoaxville until proven otherwise!!!"

We're all awaiting the release of the details. Do you really believe the BATFE, Henrico County Police and Richmond City Police are going to issue a joint press release about their actions? Meanwhile, your impatience and dissatisfaction with the way it's being handled doesn't make it a hoax or VCDL a bunch of dupes or liars.

John
Member www.vcdl.org
NRA Life Member
 
He made the accusation without proof (so far) after several DAYS and still not ONE piece of proof put forward. This kind of things gets us all branded as "gun nuts" and anti government Mcvay types. The organizations you mention would admit operations of some kind not the deafening silence so far. That’s why I get impatient with it. :(
I should add that if it turns out to be true I will be the first to donate to the fund to sue BATFE. But you don't make this kind of declaration of war without proof to back it up at the time the accusation is made. Thats PR 101
and by the way VCDL made the accusation its not up to me to prove anything. You don't prove a negative by insisting that anyone who questions it is lying etc. I never said anything about anyone being "dupes or liars" I just insist on proof. So should we all, the issues are too important.


NRA Endowment Member
 
After 7 years at this Forum Staff stuff, I'm beginning to think my initial insticts to close this one were spot on. I'm also beginning to understand why.
Rich
 
From another blog.

"I am currently a Henrico County police officer; in the jurisdiction which the gun show in question (and pretty much all Richmond-area gun shows) took place. To the best of my knowledge my department had NO involvement in any checks of this nature during our last or any other recent gun shows. Furthermore, I checked with several other officers today, and none of them has heard/seen/taken part in anything of this nature either. Additionally, two of the officers I spoke with were personally present at the show in question as customers (not in uniform or identified as officers in any way) and they did not witness anything of the sort taking place.".......

The rest of the post goes on to state that the officer thinks had his agency been as involved as it would have had to have been to carry out the actions reported he would have been involved or at least know somebody that was.


And Rich I don't understand your last post. :confused:
 
I sent:
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 8/22/2005 10:53:39 AM
Subject: Richmond & BATFE

Along with probably half the gun-owners in America, I’m looking for *anything* that looks like facts (instead of anecdote) supporting the info going about that BATFE and the local PDs were surveying family/friends of purchasers at the recent Richmond show.

Can you say anything about the alleged event?

and got back:
------Reply-------
It is true....
as soon as I can get the website to work right I will have some pictures on the site...
www.showmasters.us
if it comes to it I will put them on the C&E site...
anything to get some proof up there.
www.cegunshows.com

Susan
C&E Gun Shows

God Bless America!

Click here to go to the Showmasters Homepage to see pictures of all the Police at the building August 13-14, 2005 at the Richmond Raceway Complex. Showmasters website address is www.showmasters.us

++++++++++++++++++++
I know that none of this is "proof" but I'm just wondering what that word is going to be defined as in this situation. Folks are admitting that the events took place as related, or even more outragously than related. They are, for various reasons, not willing to give their contact info to the whole internet (although Sixpack has and I've been in contact with him). While nobody I have exchanged emails with will say, my bet is there is legal action underway.



I have NEVER seen that many cops at a Richmond gun show! I wonder what the Henrico cop mentioned in post #48 has to say about the situation? Now it seems there are too many contradictions.

stay safe.

skidmark
 
I just got off the phone with Steve Elliott of C&E Gunshows and he confirmed everything that VCDL reported. If anything, it's worse. Approximately 400 local law enforcement officers were involved in the "residence" checks.


Denny
 
Patiently waiting for corroboration. I can believe it happened, but I am not yet sure it did happen. Waiting mode......
 
I talked to somebody at this news organization today. He said they do have a reporter who is covering this story.I asked when the story is running. After I answered some questions about who I am and why I am asking questions, he told me to read this publication everyday and I won't be dissappointed. He was very guarded obviously. I think they are running the story very soon, maybe tomorrow, from what he said. He encouraged me to spred the word about the publication, so here it is,http://www.cnsnews.com/welcome.asp
I also recieved an e-mail today indicating another news source, local paper I believe, should publish tomorrow. I think we are going to have answers over the next few days.
 
All BATFE has to do is to grab the forms as they are dropped off by the dealers, call in the contact info and have an officer dispatched to the house. That officer reports results of survey back to dispatcher, who in turn gives it to BATFE
Click to expand...
This could be a pilot operation - a sort of trial balloon. Just think, instead of waiting for a dealership to close to gather 4473s a list can be made by the BATmen during sales! All on the grounds of "We just wanted to make sure that the purchasers were all legitimate [ETC]". "Knock and talk".

All the "I am a RPD officer and I know of no such thing that day" (etc) means little when we are talking of police agencies with manning levels somewhat larger than "just another small town". IF the BATF were running a little show of their own, they were probably assigned particular units that day exclusively to knock on doors. If these units were selected by compliant PD administrations I'd bet the farm they won't be falling over themselves to come forward and tell all. And the communications for the exercize will not have been mixed in with regular dispatch radio traffic.

This underscores the alarming current state of our Federal government administration who for one have no police powers assigned to them under the United States Constitution, and in the interests of general accountability should be compelled to make public disclosures under the penalty of criminal law over such matters.
 
Still mostly one source, but...

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewSpecialReports.asp?Page=\SpecialReports\archive\200508\SPE20050823a.html

ATF is 'out of the residency check business'

Gelles and her attorneys were in Washington, D.C., Aug. 15 to meet with ATF officials and seek an explanation for what happened over the weekend. After talking with several people in the ATF headquarters, Gelles said she finally spoke with a supervisor, whom she would not identify, who assured her that ATF "is out of the residency check business, effective immediately."
Click to expand...
Implies that they were in that business.
 
It's good to see some new evidence.

Not to sidetrack the thread, but as a comparison, in my town, the local police sponsors the best gunshow in the area. There are a couple of others, but the bi-annual show put on by the police is the one to attend. It still has collectors showing collections, great deals from all over the state, no beanie babies, and very little beef jerky. If you don't have guns on your table, you are not welcome.

"(g)(3)(B) Except in the case of forms and contents thereof regarding a purchaser who is prohibited by [federal law] from receipt of a firearm, the department of State Police or State law enforcement agency or local law enforcement agency of the local jurisdiction shall not disclose any such form or the contents thereof to any person or entity, and shall destroy each such form and any record of the contents thereof no more than 20 days from the date such form is received."
 
There was a question on THR about the size of the agencies, so I figured I'd post it here as well. JT

From the Henrico County P.D. site - "In January 1998 the Division installed 40 mobile computers into patrol vehicles. This was the first phase of a project that would see over 500 officers and vehicles equipped with mobile computing capabilities."

From the City of Richmond P.D. site - 650 sworn and 130 civilians.

John
 
This is starting to look real ugly. Hope they can document some of the "residency contacts" for the law suit if one is filed. IF this indeed took place as now reported then the push should be on for firing of the person in charge.
 
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