AZ to Drop CCW Permit Requirement
- Thread starter KMO
- Start date
rickyjames
New member
"There is one thing that you may get in taking the class, that you won't get anywhere else.
Case law."
firearms instructors are legal professors?
Case law."
firearms instructors are legal professors?
[
Nope, and if they were, the only thing they could tell you for certain about court is uncertainty. The SCUTUS justices thenselves seldom agree on a decision. All you get is some idea of what the law says, and how things MIGHT go in court under a certain circumstance. Even when using a tried case as an example, one never knows how that same case might have turned out with a different lawyer, and/or a different jury.
Once the shooting stops, it's up to the individual and his/her lawyer to convince the judge and jury.
Daryl
Nope, and if they were, the only thing they could tell you for certain about court is uncertainty. The SCUTUS justices thenselves seldom agree on a decision. All you get is some idea of what the law says, and how things MIGHT go in court under a certain circumstance. Even when using a tried case as an example, one never knows how that same case might have turned out with a different lawyer, and/or a different jury.
Once the shooting stops, it's up to the individual and his/her lawyer to convince the judge and jury.
Daryl
rickyjames - feel free to post the names and companies of those gun stores and cc instructors that opposed the bill. They need to be corrected in a very short manner. 
BTW, I'm guessing that by not having a mandatory requirement for CC training, CC instructors and gun stores are not really going to loose out. CC instructors in general, if they are smart, should end up with a larger client list with more active training because people who seek them out will probably train more times and spend more money. There's nothing worse for an industry than for the government to set a bar on training. People will take the class and then have no reason to continue training. However, if people seek it out voluntarily, they will be more likely to be repeat customers - jmho.
BTW, I'm guessing that by not having a mandatory requirement for CC training, CC instructors and gun stores are not really going to loose out. CC instructors in general, if they are smart, should end up with a larger client list with more active training because people who seek them out will probably train more times and spend more money. There's nothing worse for an industry than for the government to set a bar on training. People will take the class and then have no reason to continue training. However, if people seek it out voluntarily, they will be more likely to be repeat customers - jmho.
Geetarman said:
"I do not think it will make as big a change as many seem to believe."
The biggest change is that people will no longer get in trouble for "innocent" violations of the concealed carry law...
For example:
My buddy Joe has his CCW. I don't. He's carrying in his car as we drive to the local range to shoot. We get stopped for some minor traffic violation. He's fine. *I* could be charged with a felony because I had "access" the the gun he has in the glove box or console.
The law changes this and will have similar effects in other situations.
Simeon
"I do not think it will make as big a change as many seem to believe."
The biggest change is that people will no longer get in trouble for "innocent" violations of the concealed carry law...
For example:
My buddy Joe has his CCW. I don't. He's carrying in his car as we drive to the local range to shoot. We get stopped for some minor traffic violation. He's fine. *I* could be charged with a felony because I had "access" the the gun he has in the glove box or console.
The law changes this and will have similar effects in other situations.
Simeon
armoredman
New member
All the CCW classes I took in AZ, (I was class #10 in 1994), not one dealt with case law of any kind. We had The Arizona Gun Owners Guide, that was about it. First CCW class had a police officer who walked out in front of us and said, "It's your responsibility to know the law, have a nice day."
Now going to Lethal Force Institute, or Gunsite, or any other high dollar schools should give plenty of that, I would think, but I lack the $900 a week for those.
BTW,
azleg.gov said:
I love the idea that I do not have to go to special classes or pay any money to conceal but that liscence is a privelage and shows that you have been properly trained and certified to conceal a firearm. I do believe in order to obtain a CCW now, you must get cleared by the FBI or ATF. I have mixed feelings about this and haven't made up my mind.
There is lots of good information people might miss out on by not being required to take classes. A lot of folks are tought by some one who may or may not practice safe gun handling procedure...
There is lots of good information people might miss out on by not being required to take classes. A lot of folks are tought by some one who may or may not practice safe gun handling procedure...
Armored, Agreed. CCW instructors do not teach Case Law in CCW class.
However, I think something here is getting over looked or lost in translation...
In the two CCW classes I have attended, much of the time spent sitting at desks was not talking about the good stuff; guns, ammo, gear. Instead, it was spent discussing interpretations of the laws that were written in the books at the time of class; WHEN is WHAT justified, What you still CANNOT do, and most importantly, What NOT to say after an incident.
Example: Do NOT proceed to tell the responding officer "Yeah, I never really liked the guy anyways" or Do NOT self incriminate yourself on the police report.
Instead, say "Sir, all I can say right now is that I FEARED FOR MY LIFE and did what I felt necessary. I respect what you're doing, but I would like to speak with my lawyer before we go any further."
Thoughts?
However, I think something here is getting over looked or lost in translation...
In the two CCW classes I have attended, much of the time spent sitting at desks was not talking about the good stuff; guns, ammo, gear. Instead, it was spent discussing interpretations of the laws that were written in the books at the time of class; WHEN is WHAT justified, What you still CANNOT do, and most importantly, What NOT to say after an incident.
Example: Do NOT proceed to tell the responding officer "Yeah, I never really liked the guy anyways" or Do NOT self incriminate yourself on the police report.
Instead, say "Sir, all I can say right now is that I FEARED FOR MY LIFE and did what I felt necessary. I respect what you're doing, but I would like to speak with my lawyer before we go any further."
Thoughts?
armoredman
New member
I believe the term "common sense" is not so much a statement than a prayer.
Two days left.
Two days left.
armoredman
New member
YEEHAW! 
Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
It's good to see another state has constitutional carry.
First, I want to apologize to those of you who write that you failed to gain anything out of your AzCCW class. Being an multi-rated NRA and Az instuctor I will have to admit that sometimes we all have students that you "just can't teach nothing to" and that's sad because both of us, student and instuctor, have lost when that happens. My major reservation with this new law, is not in that it allows us to concealed without a permit, but it so lessens the education requirement in the AzCCW that one has to question if as many other states will recognize it as vaid as to today. Only time will tell.
The idea that I can travel east on I-10, through multiple states, and be armed and legal, is comforting to me and I for one do not want to lose that.
Tomaz45
The idea that I can travel east on I-10, through multiple states, and be armed and legal, is comforting to me and I for one do not want to lose that.
Tomaz45