Automatic weapon

Would you choose an automatic weapon for HD?

  • Yes

    Votes: 45 26.0%

  • No

    Votes: 128 74.0%
  • Total voters
    173
Really? So if I follow you correctly, deploying a carbine under 200 yards is crazy, but OK after that? At what point is deploying a shotgun or pistol crazy? I'd say well under 200 yards. Should there be no intermediate distance option? I say "yes" and advance the carbine as the viable solution; the "from across the room to as far as you'd be reasonably expected to ever use it" option.
 
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Many readers of this thread think of an automatic weapon as one that sprays bullets about carelessly hitting innocent bystanders such as the Ingram MAC-10. They think of Rambo with the M-60.

In my experience, the MP5 completely broke that stereotype. When I first fired the MP5, I found that it was very tame and controllable on fully automatic. This was indeed a surgical weapon that is not designed to miss. The NAVY seals trust it, the FBI trusts it...This weapon has no felt recoil and could accurately lay down fire.

The goal in the home defense scenario is not to lay down cover or sustained fire, but to utilize short bursts of 3-5 bullets into the target.

When I was at the range with the MP5, I found that I could easily get all of my bursts into the target's chest without any misses. It was an easy weapon to handle and I cant imagine anyone being able to survive a short burst from that weapon. 3-5 high speed 9mms will slow that burglar down.

The MP-5 would be a great home defense weapon and I wish the police would carry this as a substitute for their duty weapon. I would be very comfortable using this weapon for home defense.

You need to fire the MP5 or another similiar sub-gun to know what I mean.
 
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"Remember, your gun will be seized as evidence until you are cleared of an unlawful homicide."

Again, why does everyone comfortably ignores the assumptions made in the initial post like cost is not a factor. Gun being siezed is a cost. What does it take for some of you to answer a simple question based on simple assumptions. If you cant answer that, I am doubtful if you are even qualified to own a weapon let alone talk about its use.

Sorry but myself and a few others have been consistantly stating to follow the assumptions.
 
Firepower summed it up nicely.

If you can't or won't understand the importance of answering his question as stated then it is quite likely that your understanding of the two weapons systems are marginal at best.

The shotgun is certainly a prolific weapon, probably second only to the ubiquitous .22LR Rifle in its numbers around the country.
However for defensive use, there has never been a less understood weapon.
(Volumes can and have been written addressing this).

On the other hand, the Appropriate use of Full Auto is also little understood.

Both systems require more than dusting clay pigeons or making rapid fire perforations in a static paper target to give the individual the ability to wring out the performance that make each system unique.

The question that Firepower has posed should not be interpreted as one of "Which do you like/feel most comfortable with" rather to get us to think out the strengths and weaknesses of these two powerful defensive/offensive systems.

And when comparing, the only way to put them on a level playing field is to remove the extraneous constraints put on either or both by outside forces Ie NFA, Cost, and any other rules or foolishness.
 
When I was at the range with the MP5, I found that I could easily get all of my bursts into the target's chest without any misses.
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My uncle once told me about the use of M-16's during Vietnam. At the time, there was no such thing as a 3 or 5 round burst selector. He pointed out that full-auto was useless unless you were putting cover fire down over a rice-paddy. Alternatively, full auto could be used to scare the enemy into retreat temporarily, but don't expect to hit much. If you really wanted to shoot the enemy, you needed to aim at them and control your shots. This meant fewer than 3 bullets leaving the muzzle at a time. His opinion was past 3 rounds, you were no longer on target. Apparently the soldiers of that era used a technique of quick trigger squeezes to let off 3-4 rounds at a time. He said that most guys that saw much combat got VERY good at it. I assume he saw plenty of combat because he is still a train-wreck today, but he has never talked about that.

I wasn't there and I don't know much about what the modern Army does or what the selector on a modern M-16 looks like, but that was what he told me. The MP-5, however, does have a burst selector. I suspect that is the way that the SEALS use it.

So my point is, perhaps from a technical standpoint, an automatic rifle firing controlled bursts is certainly effective. However, it is a weapon made for war. It is not made for neighborhoods, unless you live in the Gaza Strip. Yes, police do carry AR-15's and MP-5's, but in my neck of the woods, they are all semiautomatic. And that seems to be more than sufficient enough for most folks who are not defending a hill in Korea circa 1951.
 
The question that Firepower has posed should not be interpreted as one of "Which do you like/feel most comfortable with"
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Wrong. The question is "Would you choose an automatic weapon for HD?". Any reasoning that the responding individual wants to use seems fair game to explain why or why not that individual would choose FA or not, including discussions of which arm they are most comfortable with.

It's a better response than just spouting some random generic statements without actually saying anything or answering the question.
 
I would go with the full auto AK 47 with a 75 round drum and folding stock. If I was in Firepower's situation then that would be a nice blend of maximum capacity of a larger caliber. And for myself, the AK is a small enough weapon that I would be comfortable moving through a house with.

Firepower!, what are the walls of your home constructed of? I'm guessing they are not sheetrock and pine 2x4's...
 
If you really wanted to shoot the enemy, you needed to aim at them and control your shots.
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This is the basic premise with any weapon. You have to shoot the target, not at it. Some just require a little more discipline on the shooters part.

Apparently the soldiers of that era used a technique of quick trigger squeezes to let off 3-4 rounds at a time.
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This is part of the basic technique for quick, controllable fire.

The best part about select fire guns is, you get to "select" the use. You use whats necessary when you need it. Its knowing what is needed and when its needed thats the part many seem to have trouble with or understand.


The MP-5, however, does have a burst selector.
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Some do and some dont. Depends on how they are set up. The true burst selector is your trigger finger routed through your brain.

Personally, I dont like burst devices and feel they are unnecessary, especially with the MP5. Its trigger will allow one shot bursts once your used to it. Two and three shot bursts are very easy and natural. I dont need or want the gun to tell me how many rounds will go with the pull of the trigger. Who knows, I may want all of them off at once for some strange reason. (mostly thats just to prove to nay sayers that it "can" be done, and done controllably. Its not something I'd normally do.) Once you have the technique down, you can easily dump a whole mag into COM with little effort.
 
B. Lahey said:
If I tossed a full-auto AK to a random person in my area, chances are slim that they would be able to hit anything with it.
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Anyone who knows AKs will know that you can put them on semi :D. Then again, most people I know (also in rural Indiana) wouldn't even know how to take the selector off of safety on an AK. BTW, I know that you are saying that they couldn't hit anything meaning that they couldn't hit anything while utilizing the F/A function.

Also, maybe it is an Indiana thing, but shotguns are very easy to shoot and shoot well. Almost everyone I know that is even slightly into guns can shoot a shotgun at least fairly well.

I would use a F/A weapon, but probably not as my primary. I really like shotguns and they are hard to beat for home defense.
 
I think a properly used MP5 SD is most suited for in doors. Automatic weapon gives you the option to use burst if needed. It does not mean that you can only spary and pray. There is a reason why we train to use them and control rate of fire with finger.
 
Most of the people posting here seem to forget that Firepower! lives outside the U.S. in a part of the world with very different circumstances than most of us posting here. I can see a use for full-auto in certain situations, a Katrina-like situation where you do actually have roving gangs of thugs and virtually no law enforcement is one as suppressing fire and area-denial may actually be useful tactics in such an environment. Remember, such situations are not so uncommon in other parts of the world. Where I disagree with Firepower! is his choice of full-auto weapons. Something in an intermediate rifle caliber such as 5.56x45 NATO or 5.45x39 Soviet (eg. AKS74U, Sig 552, or Colt M4) would be a better choice IMHO, as with the right ammunition (i.e. light JHP) it will not penetrate walls significantly more than a 9mm subgun but does offer significantly better terminal performance and range.
 
Webley
The krinkov has a muzzle flash and noise that will make you deaf when fired in doors. M4 can be used with suppressor on but I would not be comfortable in shootting 5.56 in doors. 9mm to me is a better choice. However, if the battle moves outdoors then the rifles you mentioned are better choice.
 
Firepower, XM193 5.56x45, 9mm JHP, and .45 ACP JHP will all, according to the Box O' Truth website, penetrate 12 boards of sheetrock which is equivalent to 6 interior walls. The 5.56 rounds, however, began to tumble with the handgun rounds did not. Using ammunition like a 40grn JHP in a 5.56 would likely induce more tumbling and/or expansion and further limit penetration.
 
Webley, who is E Fudd? Also plz respond to my new post in nfa.

back to thread... I aslo would like to add that a double tap with auto weapon is just too much for any intruder to resist
 
Elmer Fudd. :)

20_Elmer_Fudd2.jpg
 
As AK103K has already graphically pointed out, E. Fudd is Elmer Fudd. Elmer Fudd is a popular Looney Tunes character (a series of short cartoons produced by Warner Brothers since the late 1930's or early 1940's) and is the classic nemesis to Bugs Bunny, Daffy Duck and others. If you've never seen a Looney Tunes cartoon, I encourage you to watch them as they can be downright hysterical.
 
Firepower!,

I responded to one of your threads in NFA, but you have several close to the top so I'm not entirely sure which one you meant.
 
Firing an AK on full auto is very different then firing a sub-gun(like the mp5) on full auto.

An AK jumps and it takes a while to get used to. The MP5 is one where you are quite able to squeeze off short controlled bursts with surgical precision.

Many SWAT teams are now using the M4 as their main weapon, but the MP5 is what they should have stuck with. The M4 jumps around more on full auto and the accuracy is questionable.

The NAVY SEALS could choose whatever weapon they want and they chose the MP5.
 
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