ATF Project Gunrunner
- Thread starter Al Norris
- Start date
Holder was found in civil and criminal contempt of Congress. There has been no prosecution. He still has his job, and there have been no consequences for him. In fact, he was quoted saying this back in March:
If contempt doesn't have any effect, he really can't be compelled to cooperate with anybody at this point. I doubt he'll have a sudden crisis of conscience on the matter.
Sorry, but Issa and Grassley blew it. The matter is effectively done.
I disagree. Issa and Grassley pushed as hard as they could, given the complete lack of support they received from Boehner, McConnell and the rest of the Republican leadership, who never once dared step across the line and allow F&F to become a 2012 campaign issue.
I think Grassley and Issa made a good faith effort in pursuit of a conclusion, but were left to hang out to dry because it didn't fit into the "brilliant" GOP national campaign strategy.
This I am in complete agreement with. I expect a rather large number of Fordesque pardons on the POTUS final day of office.
The matter was effectively dead in the water, but IRS and tax exempts, EPA and FOIA bias, DOJ and AP/Fox/CBS collections, DOJ and whistlevlower harassment, and Benghazi (with new possible reporting that State gave Stinger missiles to Libyan insurgents, not realizing they were AQ-aligned) may well have breathed new life into F&F.
The problems of F&F persist, however. Without a genuine investigative body with the ability to pursue criminal indictment, and a DoJ with a greater facility for breaking the law than enforcing it, and a Republican leadership that can't shoot straight and is incapable of presenting a coherent message making the administration's lawlessness comprehensible to the public, the public will lose interest and nothing will happen.
They did, but they pushed in the wrong direction. They went for the brass ring, thinking they were Woodward and Bernstein.
The fact is, the Oval Office effectively insulated themselves, and the possibility of prosecuting those who actually engineered and carried out the operation (Voth, Gillette, McAllister) went out the window when executive privilege was invoked. Sure, there was a bit of scandal. Sure, some folks quit or got reassigned. But nobody got charged or prosecuted.
They should have gone after the Phoenix Division first, gotten a few folks to roll, then gone up the chain. Instead, they wanted to implicate the entire executive branch, and they failed.
Bingo!!!
It soon became evident that Fast and Furious was the brainchild of the Phoenix division of the BATFE and an anti-gun federal prosecutor. The Phoenix BATFE was an out of control government office managed by rogues who sold Fast and Furious to their agency bosses: Grassley and Issa never got behind this fact. In their zeal to implicate Holder and the administration, they turned their investigation into a hunt for who knew what when. They failed miserably.
IMO: The greatest mistake of Grassley and Issa was their failure to demand a reorganization of the BATFE.
After the contempt citation Fast and Furious became a dead duck, as i predicted.
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Luger_carbine
New member
'Fast and Furious' Scandal Returns to Haunt Obama
This is old news, the same thing that was reported by Fox and the Examiner. But it's being reported in Business Week, and with a twist - how the Obama Administration "enmeshes itself [sic] in failures"
I'm just posting this because I think my earlier prediction is coming true - news agencies who went easy on Fast & Furious previously are willing to take a second look at it, and publish a story on it, even if the main point of the "story" is pointing out the administration has a problem with being scandal ridden.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-21/fast-and-furious-scandal-returns-to-haunt-obama
I also think that there were some news agencies who basically defended F&F - by publishing the administrations claims without challenging any of it
Some news agencies helped the administration simply by not publishing stories on F&F
I think it will be rare now for a news organization to defend F&F, what remains to be seen is how many news agencies that ignored the story in the past will give it attention now, and the real issue IMO is how many news agencies will actually aggressively pursue the story now.
This is old news, the same thing that was reported by Fox and the Examiner. But it's being reported in Business Week, and with a twist - how the Obama Administration "enmeshes itself [sic] in failures"
I'm just posting this because I think my earlier prediction is coming true - news agencies who went easy on Fast & Furious previously are willing to take a second look at it, and publish a story on it, even if the main point of the "story" is pointing out the administration has a problem with being scandal ridden.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-05-21/fast-and-furious-scandal-returns-to-haunt-obama
I also think that there were some news agencies who basically defended F&F - by publishing the administrations claims without challenging any of it
Some news agencies helped the administration simply by not publishing stories on F&F
I think it will be rare now for a news organization to defend F&F, what remains to be seen is how many news agencies that ignored the story in the past will give it attention now, and the real issue IMO is how many news agencies will actually aggressively pursue the story now.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-atf-fast-furious-20130705,0,2692834.story
Reported facts:
Another Fast and Furious gun (a WASR) was used to kill Luis Lucio Rosales Astorga, a police chief in Hostotipaquillo, Jalisco, Mexico, on January 29th, 2013. Assailants blocked his vehicle, killed the chief and one bodyguard, and injured the chief's wife and another bodyguard.
This is apparently notable for how far south of the border it was.
Reported facts:
Another Fast and Furious gun (a WASR) was used to kill Luis Lucio Rosales Astorga, a police chief in Hostotipaquillo, Jalisco, Mexico, on January 29th, 2013. Assailants blocked his vehicle, killed the chief and one bodyguard, and injured the chief's wife and another bodyguard.
This is apparently notable for how far south of the border it was.
Yep, and Jacob Montelongo, the guy who purchased that and 109 other lost F&F weapons, was only sentenced to 41 months in prison.
As it stands, there are at least 170 deaths tied to Fast & Furious, yet none of the parties involved in planning or executing it have been prosecuted.
As it stands, there are at least 170 deaths tied to Fast & Furious, yet none of the parties involved in planning or executing it have been prosecuted.
Funny I can remember telling people that all this stuff was being tracked... I didn't need to spill secrets, all I had to do was read the law and understand how our government thinks.
The scary part is our leaders in general don't seem to think that such invasions of rights are a problem and we've hobbled ourselves with thinking only the SCOTUS can strike laws... We only need to look to our own history to see that awareness has to be brought house to house, neighbor to neighbor to change the laws.
I still think its odd that anyone though some of this stuff was secret, read the law, interpret it in they way that most benefits whatever agency and that the new limits of its power... The action it takes will be defined by those limits.
The scary part is our leaders in general don't seem to think that such invasions of rights are a problem and we've hobbled ourselves with thinking only the SCOTUS can strike laws... We only need to look to our own history to see that awareness has to be brought house to house, neighbor to neighbor to change the laws.
I still think its odd that anyone though some of this stuff was secret, read the law, interpret it in they way that most benefits whatever agency and that the new limits of its power... The action it takes will be defined by those limits.
nazshooter
New member
And their reaction was? Prior to these leaks a significant number of people probably thought you were some sort of conspiracy nut. Imagine telling people 10 years ago that the President had a secret kill list and that he considered consultations with his advisors to be "due process".
What strikes me as funny, spelled peculiar, is the following.
While lately, all manner of people have become aware and are complaining about "government" sticking it's nose into what used to be individual privacy, and the rights thereto, seems like nobody notes or mentions the fact that Corporate America, the Private Sector is doing essentially the same thing, aided and comforted by the same people who complain about the antics of government.
Like I said, it strikes me as being funny, spelled peculiar, but then any number of people have found me funny, spelled peculiar too.
While lately, all manner of people have become aware and are complaining about "government" sticking it's nose into what used to be individual privacy, and the rights thereto, seems like nobody notes or mentions the fact that Corporate America, the Private Sector is doing essentially the same thing, aided and comforted by the same people who complain about the antics of government.
Like I said, it strikes me as being funny, spelled peculiar, but then any number of people have found me funny, spelled peculiar too.
nazshooter
New member
Alan:
Let me know when I can choose not to do business with the government. That, and the fact that the "corporation" is a government creation.
Let me know when I can choose not to do business with the government. That, and the fact that the "corporation" is a government creation.
nazshooter wrote in response to my post:
Alan:
Let me know when I can choose not to do business with the government. That, and the fact that the "corporation" is a government creation.
Nazshooter:
In answer to your question(s), please note the following.
1. "corporations" are most certainly, creatures of the government, The Congress being part of government, The Congress (House and Senate) having enacted various laws and statutes, as well as authorizing the "promulgation of regulations ...".
2. Among others, Facebook is a corporation. I have no idea concerning whether or not you have a Facebook page, if you do, you freely so choose to. While the individual's choices might be limited, the individual is not without choices, at least not yet.
Alan:
Let me know when I can choose not to do business with the government. That, and the fact that the "corporation" is a government creation.
Nazshooter:
In answer to your question(s), please note the following.
1. "corporations" are most certainly, creatures of the government, The Congress being part of government, The Congress (House and Senate) having enacted various laws and statutes, as well as authorizing the "promulgation of regulations ...".
2. Among others, Facebook is a corporation. I have no idea concerning whether or not you have a Facebook page, if you do, you freely so choose to. While the individual's choices might be limited, the individual is not without choices, at least not yet.
Tom Servo:
I believe the following from JPFO is back on track, re the subject of this thread.
There was an article in my local paper, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, picked up from the Los Angeles Times I believe, that covered this shooting and it's background, including references to Operation Fast & Furious.
Copyright © 2013 JPFO.ORG, All rights reserved. http://jpfo.org/
Our mailing address is: jpfo@jpfo.org
P.O. Box 270143, Hartford, WI 53027, USA
P.O. Box 270143,Hartford ,WI 53027, USA
I believe the following from JPFO is back on track, re the subject of this thread.
There was an article in my local paper, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, picked up from the Los Angeles Times I believe, that covered this shooting and it's background, including references to Operation Fast & Furious.
Copyright © 2013 JPFO.ORG, All rights reserved. http://jpfo.org/
Our mailing address is: jpfo@jpfo.org
P.O. Box 270143, Hartford, WI 53027, USA
P.O. Box 270143,Hartford ,WI 53027, USA
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