Are revolvers relevant in the 21st century ?
- Thread starter Kurbsky
- Start date
you just had to include "practical" didn't ya! 
Practical is going to mean something different to every different shooter. Practical for hunting? Practical for duty wear? Practical for concealed carry? ALL different things, and NO one gun does them all perfectly.
I have a Coonan .357 Magnum. The gun I have is 1/8" longer and 1/4" taller than a standard Colt Govt Model. (I have other magnum semis that are considerably larger.) Still, some might find this size practical, and other's will not.
Personally, I find the entire question of "relevant" to be a matter of "fashion" and popularity, not a matter of practical use or utility.
Whatever I have in my hands when the need arises is "relevant". What more needs be said?
Practical is going to mean something different to every different shooter. Practical for hunting? Practical for duty wear? Practical for concealed carry? ALL different things, and NO one gun does them all perfectly.
I have a Coonan .357 Magnum. The gun I have is 1/8" longer and 1/4" taller than a standard Colt Govt Model. (I have other magnum semis that are considerably larger.) Still, some might find this size practical, and other's will not.
Personally, I find the entire question of "relevant" to be a matter of "fashion" and popularity, not a matter of practical use or utility.
Whatever I have in my hands when the need arises is "relevant". What more needs be said?
stinkeypete
New member
I’m going to call out KYJim’s graphics as potentially misleading and show you what immediately tipped me off.
The big clue when looking at graphs is to know the vertical and horizontal axis.
Vertical axis is “percent of gun sales” and there IS NO horizontal axis! WOA!
Using his color code method, we can just reassign the colors and “show” the graph rising! After checking his colors, he’s not fooling us there. Maybe he just doesn’t know how to make his spreadsheet do a graph.
Then I looked at the axis. In general, zero should always be shown. In the case of years, that’s not practical for many reasons, but going back to around 1890 would be good. My thought on that is to go back to when revolvers were 100% of the market and NOW let’s look.
Well, we don’t have that data. Let’s look and see if the data is actually answering our question. Is percent of sales the same as relevance? Hmmm.
Then, because Jim’s post is legit (unless he fudged the data) we can look at how many revolvers were sold.
AHA! It seems like more revolvers are being made then ever!
It seems like semi auto sales are through the roof! Well yes, but revolver sales are rising too! It seems if something was irrelevant -like buggy whips- total sales would be near zero.
Jim is to be commended for including his data as he did! It’s one mark of a serious attempt to communicate instead of simply manipulate data to Gin up a talking point!
The big clue when looking at graphs is to know the vertical and horizontal axis.
Vertical axis is “percent of gun sales” and there IS NO horizontal axis! WOA!
Using his color code method, we can just reassign the colors and “show” the graph rising! After checking his colors, he’s not fooling us there. Maybe he just doesn’t know how to make his spreadsheet do a graph.
Then I looked at the axis. In general, zero should always be shown. In the case of years, that’s not practical for many reasons, but going back to around 1890 would be good. My thought on that is to go back to when revolvers were 100% of the market and NOW let’s look.
Well, we don’t have that data. Let’s look and see if the data is actually answering our question. Is percent of sales the same as relevance? Hmmm.
Then, because Jim’s post is legit (unless he fudged the data) we can look at how many revolvers were sold.
AHA! It seems like more revolvers are being made then ever!
It seems like semi auto sales are through the roof! Well yes, but revolver sales are rising too! It seems if something was irrelevant -like buggy whips- total sales would be near zero.
Jim is to be commended for including his data as he did! It’s one mark of a serious attempt to communicate instead of simply manipulate data to Gin up a talking point!
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The .jpg file I inserted is a graph and it has is a horizontal axis. It's called a bar graph. Instead of numbers and a line graph, it uses color-coded bars with the colors clearly labeled by year. I'm sorry you can't understand a bar graph.
No, you can't. Not unless you change the years assigned to each color (at the bottom of the graph). Otherwise, you would be falsifying data.
No, it's not. I never claimed it is. It is, however, one objective fact we can weigh on the relevance issue. If revolvers got down to say 0.5% of pistol/handgun manufactured, one could make a more forceful argument revolvers were irrelevant, even if the actual number of revolvers manufactured had increased.
You then say total revolver sales have increased, but that is only partially true. The data in the table shows total revolvers manufactured went up in some years and down in others, depending upon the years compared. But that's also true of total pistol/revolvers manufactured, so that his why I compared revolvers manufactured to the total pistol/revolver manufacturing data. I think it is a better, though imperfect, reflection of interest in revolvers.
And please, don't intimate I might have fudged data. I mentioned in my post I had obtained the numbers on guns manufactured (not sales) from the ATF and I used all the data available on their website. You can find it yourself at https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/data-statistics.
Don Fischer
New member
Nothing is relevant and then everything is relevant!
Cosmodragoon
New member
If you like them, you like them. That's a thing.
Beyond that, revolvers are definitely the way to go for high power. They can also be a great choice for pocket carry. For instance, I find the LCR to be more comfortable and easier to use from a pocket holster than the 9mm polymer subcompacts.
People sometimes knock it but I consider .327 Federal the cutting edge of revolver technology. The 85-grain loads offer excellent performance from the six-shot LCR. Achieving that performance from the short barrel, doing so with relatively light recoil on a light frame, and bumping capacity up to six for that frame size all add up to something special. Sadly, it came about as revolvers were falling out of favor and faced a number of other unfortunate circumstances.
Beyond that, revolvers are definitely the way to go for high power. They can also be a great choice for pocket carry. For instance, I find the LCR to be more comfortable and easier to use from a pocket holster than the 9mm polymer subcompacts.
People sometimes knock it but I consider .327 Federal the cutting edge of revolver technology. The 85-grain loads offer excellent performance from the six-shot LCR. Achieving that performance from the short barrel, doing so with relatively light recoil on a light frame, and bumping capacity up to six for that frame size all add up to something special. Sadly, it came about as revolvers were falling out of favor and faced a number of other unfortunate circumstances.
Mike Irwin
Staff
""Yep, because the idea of a reliable, practical automatic that fires Magnum ammunition is still something of a pipe dream".(TS)
The Glock 20 in 10mm with hot loads comes pretty close. Hence its popularity in Alaska. "
.38 Super comes close to .357 in some loadings...
.357 Sig was developed to emulate the Remington 125-gr. JHP .357 Mag. round...
Those are just two of quite a few semi-auto rounds that approach magnum power.
BUTBUTBUT!!! IT'S GOTTA HAVE A RIM TO BE A MAGNUM!
Sure. Whatever.
The Glock 20 in 10mm with hot loads comes pretty close. Hence its popularity in Alaska. "
.38 Super comes close to .357 in some loadings...
.357 Sig was developed to emulate the Remington 125-gr. JHP .357 Mag. round...
Those are just two of quite a few semi-auto rounds that approach magnum power.
BUTBUTBUT!!! IT'S GOTTA HAVE A RIM TO BE A MAGNUM!
Sure. Whatever.
wild cat mccane
New member
The Rough Rider might sell the most because of a US only gun problem where cheap guns are low cost purchases for crime, hence it not being allowed in some states due to melting point laws (IL/MI).
I bet the LCP outsells every j-frame handgun each year. That might be an actual fact, not an attack on a revolver.
I bet the LCP outsells every j-frame handgun each year. That might be an actual fact, not an attack on a revolver.
Mike Irwin
Staff
"I bet the LCP outsells every j-frame handgun each year. That might be an actual fact, not an attack on a revolver."
I have no doubt that many of the small/micro semi-autos outsell their revolver counterparts every year.
But that, again, doesn't make the revolver irrelevant, useless, outdated, outmoded, worthless, or any of the other equally stupid assumptions/assertions/insinuations that have been made here and elsewhere.
I have no doubt that many of the small/micro semi-autos outsell their revolver counterparts every year.
But that, again, doesn't make the revolver irrelevant, useless, outdated, outmoded, worthless, or any of the other equally stupid assumptions/assertions/insinuations that have been made here and elsewhere.
The one time I got to shoot the LAR Grizzly in 45 Win Mag, I found it surprisingly manageable and great fun. I almost bought one, but deferred for fear my Redhawk would get depressed thinking it had become irrelevant (the fact I was short on cash at the time had absolutely nothing to do with it). And guess which one has more readily available ammo today? Well, OK, neither of them right on this particular day, but you know what I mean.
Cosmodragoon
New member
Let's not forget that the LCP also costs a lot less than a comparable revolver. While prices can vary by region, store, panic status, etc...
MSRP for Basic LCP = $309
MSRP for Basic LCR = $699
Mike Irwin
Staff
I mentioned the disparity of price point in an earlier message in this thread. I think out of everything, it's that that has the most potential to damage defensive revolver sales long term.
wild cat mccane
New member
I missed that. That is a good point.
But a 442 is like $420? Just a few $20s under a P365, number one gun seller of last two years.
But agreed. The autos tend to be cheaper. A 686/GP100 price tag gets you any non competition or non HK auto.
But a 442 is like $420? Just a few $20s under a P365, number one gun seller of last two years.
But agreed. The autos tend to be cheaper. A 686/GP100 price tag gets you any non competition or non HK auto.
Carl the Floor Walker
Moderator
I do not think it is price as much as it is trigger. The New Shooter does not want to take the time to learn a DA or DAO. Most shooters in general shoot very little. And when they do, they target shoot the guns. And I believe they will go with the so called "most popular" which is generated by massive advertising. The Ruger LCP IMO was the most popular gun sold for years and maybe still is. But is it the best? Persoanlly I do not believe the gun was a good firearm or any small 380 for 80% of the population. But it was a easy sell. Small and cute. Small 380's are Great, but require a lot of range time to get there.
The most popular in reality does not mean the best gun nor the best quality. Many Popular guns are easy to sale, especially with inflated perceptions of ability and capability that are not required.
There will always be the experienced gun enthusiast that recognizes the Revolver as a fantastic EDC etc. Many shooters do not get this right away, but will learn so in later years provided they become Gun enthusiast rather than just monthly target shooters.
As I have said, If the Gun Gods only gave me a 5 shot Snubbie, it would not bother me one single bit. And more than enough load capacity for EDC.
Not to mention they are FUN as hell to shoot.
Fads come and go, they revolver does not need a fad. It just speaks for itself like it has done for so many years.
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HighValleyRanch
New member
I tend to agree. At most of the CCW qualifications I've attended, the revolvers make up from 10 percent to 20 percent at the most out of 25 to 35 attendents.
Most of the revolver shooters are rank beginners but then sprinkled in there are a few more advance shooters. The beginner shooters have problems with thrown shots due to trigger control, but the advance revolver shooters shooting DA tend to outshoot most of the semi auto guys who are mostly in the middle. Not to say there are a few good semi shooters.
We are required to shoot DA only with DA/SA revolvers.
Most of the revolver shooters are rank beginners but then sprinkled in there are a few more advance shooters. The beginner shooters have problems with thrown shots due to trigger control, but the advance revolver shooters shooting DA tend to outshoot most of the semi auto guys who are mostly in the middle. Not to say there are a few good semi shooters.
We are required to shoot DA only with DA/SA revolvers.
At a Canadian qualification for a wilderness handgun carry permit (ATC) we required 75 rounds. Most fired DA.
I brought 2 boxes of cowboy action .45 Colt for my Ruger Super Redhawk .454 Casull. The instructor asked if I planned to qualify and then carry with that. I said "Yes, 300 grains at 900 fps is plenty for griz at 10 yards.".
I aced the qualification.............