Are laser grips a must? crimson sale,

1. You're out at a club drinking at night with your CCW? Not smart.

2. I don't go out at night in places that I consider high risk areas.

3. I don't go out during the day in places I consider high risk areas.
Click to expand...

SwampYankee,

That would be NIGHT SHOOTING COMPETITIONS at GUN CLUBS, hence the mention of ALL CLASSIFICATION SHOOTERS. I have not had a drop of alcohol to drink in 20yrs and it has been longer than that since I have been to a NIGHT club.
 
Last edited:
Well, got my CT laser grips in the mail today. :)

They certainly couldn't be easier to install. Took about 2 minutes and that counts reading the instructions.

I can't wait to go shoot.

Interesting note... My G33 shoots about 2 inches low and left at 50 feet, always has. I sort of knew it wasn't me, since I don't do it with any other gun but, I always kind of wondered. I notice in the CT instructions it says that the grips are zeroed at 50 ft at the factory. So, I step back about 50 feet from the back wall, the laser is low and left of the sight picture, right where the bullets go. Hm.
 
they are nice, but not a necessity.

i feel they are better used as an instructional tool than in a self defense situation. mine have helped me see and correct incorrect trigger pull on a couple models. i find that my arm generally moves the gun to where i point it within a human-sized margin of error.
 
I find it interesting in reading these posts that almost everyone that is against using lasers insinuate that those that do have not mastered their weapons and need them for a crutch. I personally find that thinking offensive and degrading.

I for one have mastered my weapons. I carried many weapons in my years with the U.S. Government and continue to shoot very well.

I wonder how many of the fine folks here who think lasers are a crutch for people who have not "mastered" their weapons use tritium night sights on their pistols. Why do they not use the old style black on black sights, since they're masters of their pistols?

Most seem to overlook the fact that as one gets older, their eyesight is not what it used to be. I know this from personal experience, as I'm a little north of 60 now, and my eyesight is certainly not as good as it was at 25. There is also only so much eye surgeons can do to correct this, and it is all very expensive.

That is why I personally like the laser on my HK45CT for night use. I train using the regular sights when light is good, but at night I cannot see like I used to, even though I also have night sights on my pistol. I guess some folks on this web sight would suggest those that cannot see well at night should not use our weapons for SD, because lasers are a crutch. After all, we all know if someone kicks your door in at 3 AM you should have plenty of time to find your glasses before trying to engage the intruder.

Perhaps those of us that cannot see well at night should just practice more and master our weapons. That way, we can miraculously see better at night and we won't need our lasers. What foolishness.
 
Last edited:
hk45, I haven't called the laser a crutch, I've simply said that in my case, for most purposes, I find the laser slows me down, or isn't quite as accurate. (It will group just fine, yes, but parallax affects where my groups center, depending on distance.)

If I had eyesight issues, I might very well find the laser to be an advantage. My eyesight is between 20/15 and 20/20, and I have to pass color vision and depth perception tests every six months (1st class aviation physical exams), and I have good night vision, so thus far that isn't a factor for me.

Do I think lasers are a crutch? In many cases, no, but in many cases, yes.

A lot of people seem to buy them, thinking they'll be easy to use. I've seen quite a few get very disgruntled, very quickly, with the amount of motion the laser dot displays. I've also seen quite a few who could steady up the dot pretty well, until they actually pulled the trigger. The laser doesn't replace shooting fundamentals, but some of the people who sell lasers seem to want to make buyers think that it will.

With regard to the military guys who've chimed in, saying they always use lasers inside 50m, ok... I've seen lasers left and right on M4s and M16s. I have not yet seen a laser on a standard sidearm. Given that the Army teaches not using the sights on the M16 in close, but instead looking over the carry handle or ACOG and lining it up that way, the laser is probably every bit as accurate. Shooting around barriers or corners is also a much more likely scenario for an infantryman. Also, some military lasers, designed for use with NVG, don't give away position unless the other guy is also using night vision.

But again, I haven't seen lasers on M9's or M11's. It's possible some of the tricked out, special purpose sidearms might have them.

Anyway, back to HK45... a shooter who already knows what he is doing can reap benefits from a laser, but it isn't necessary - unless vision is becoming a problem. A shooter with vision issues probably will get a big return from a laser.
 
Are laser grips a must?

Of course not. I have a set of CTs on my 642 and they work real well. I'd like to get some for my other carry guns, but they're SO darn pricey.
 
peetzakilla said:
So, I step back about 50 feet from the back wall, the laser is low and left of the sight picture, right where the bullets go. Hm.
Click to expand...

Seems like your GUN is shooting low-left. Or that particular load is shooting low-left.

I'll be interested to hear if your groups tighten up after a bit of dry fire practice with the CTC and then some quality range time.
 
I find it interesting in reading these posts that almost everyone that is against using lasers insinuate that those that do have not mastered their weapons and need them for a crutch. I personally find that thinking offensive and degrading.

I for one have mastered my weapons. I carried many weapons in my years with the U.S. Government and continue to shoot very well.

I wonder how many of the fine folks here who think lasers are a crutch for people who have not "mastered" their weapons use tritium night sights on their pistols. Why do they not use the old style black on black sights, since they're masters of their pistols?

Most seem to overlook the fact that as one gets older, their eyesight is not what it used to be. I know this from personal experience, as I'm a little north of 60 now, and my eyesight is certainly not as good as it was at 25. There is also only so much eye surgeons can do to correct this, and it is all very expensive.

That is why I personally like the laser on my HK45CT for night use. I train using the regular sights when light is good, but at night I cannot see like I used to, even though I also have night sights on my pistol. I guess some folks on this web sight would suggest those that cannot see well at night should not use our weapons for SD, because lasers are a crutch. After all, we all know if someone kicks your door in at 3 AM you should have plenty of time to find your glasses before trying to engage the intruder.

Perhaps those of us that cannot see well at night should just practice more and master our weapons. That way, we can miraculously see better at night and we won't need our lasers. What foolishness.
Click to expand...

I concur completely.

I am no neophyte to firearms as over the last 30 years I have shot tactical, practical, steel challenge, bowling pins, silhouette and handgun hunted. I would venture to say that I know my way around a gun as well as most of the folks on this forum. I am no expert, but I am qualified to say that a laser is a viable tool for someone to use for self defense if that person will train to use it as it was intended to be used. It's most obvious benefit that I have seen is in more accurately moving and shooting one-handed as happens in so many SD situations. There are VERY FEW people that can move, track a conventional site in low or no light, and shoot one-handed. I have seen my share of good shooters fail miserably at this as they put forth some type of lame "point" shooting effort. And no, it was not intended to only be used as a training device. It will save someone's hide if it is used correctly and it can also be invaluable as a training aide. It is ludicrous for someone to say that it should never be used for self defense as at least one has posted on this thread. I hope that same person is never confronted by a BG with a laser equipped gun that has really put in the time to learn it's benefit in shooting and moving, as we are continually reminded to do when things go bad.

Although I am a bit surprised by the arrogant attitude of the resident experts as it pertains to laser use on a handgun, I probably should not be. I remember very well all of the arguments made in the early 80's when auto's were beginning to displace revolvers as the gun of choice for many. I also remember, late in the 80's, the stalwarts pointing out all of the weaknesses of the new breed of "plastic" guns (GLOCK) as they were beginning to storm the market. This is just more of the same.

Anyway, I really do not care what anyone else thinks of the laser grip, I KNOW that it is an asset on my gun.
 
Last edited:
They are useful, of course they are. I had a chat regarding it yesterday, at work, with one of my buddies. In my police force they are not issued except for the tactical units. That means you have to buy it on your own and yes, they are expensive.

My point is that the laser will tell you the exact spot the bullet would impact on, but, if when you depress your trigger you apply the pressure wrongly, your bullet will impact elsewhere. Of course that it'll make target acquisition easier and faster, but what is a must is proper training and practice.

On the other hand, the psicological factor counts under the civilian point of view. A burglar that'll see a red dot on his chest and a command "lie down" will probably prevent someone from having to shoot the BG. Needless to say the headaches you'd avoid with that, so I'd say, yes, as long as you can afford it, get it.
 
I agree with rodfac, and to take it one step further, you had better learn how to point shoot accurately or get yourself a laser because inside a dark room in the middle of the night, iron sights are useless.
 
I remember very well all of the arguments made in the early 80's when auto's were beginning to displace revolvers as the gun of choice for many. I also remember, late in the 80's, the stalwarts pointing out all of the weaknesses of the new breed of "plastic" guns (GLOCK) as they were beginning to storm the market. This is just more of the same.
Click to expand...

^^^
This

:)
 
Funny... seems to me some people dislike lasers because they are new and different, yes...

... but, at least some of us who are saying, "eh" on them have actually bought and used them.

I have nothing against the principle of the laser. The OP's question was, are they a must? The answer to that, for most of us, is NO.

If he had asked, "Can they be practically useful?" then the answer would have been "yes, in certain circumstances."

Seems to me that several of you who are casting aspersions on those who aren't huge laser fans, aren't so different from Glock fanboys, or for that matter 1911 fanboys.

If you want a laser, get one. If you have solid shooting fundamentals to begin with, it gives you an extra tool. There are circumstances where a laser could provide an advantage.

But is it a MUST HAVE, for most people? My answer is still no. But if you want to spend the money, go for it. I have done so; I've just found that for my purposes, lasers only provide very limited utility.
 
So Double Naught:

Along the same lines you can say using a scope on a rifle is a "crutch"

or

Using a "mil do" redical on a scope is a "crutch"

or night sights are a "crutch"

By your standards anything could be a crutch,
Click to expand...

"Crutch" wasn't my term. I was playing off the previous poster. However, technically, anything added to a firearm to make it more user-friendly could be considered a crutch if you wish to classify anything helpful in a negative manner. Similarly, you could classify anything that made a firearm more user-friendly as a tool if you wanted to portray it in a positive manner. That was the whole point of the post, comparing how the factual same item could be viewed in two different manners categorized so differently by those who hold strong opinions on the matter.

Take your response to me. Classic. Because part of my response supported a position you didn't like as a strongly opinionated supporter of the laser sight concept (you bet your bippy!), you apparently didn't read it in its entirety and somehow decided that I had categorized everything as crutches and that this was negative. Had you read a bit further, you would have seem the same argument made as to how laser sights were tools.

However, just for the record, while "crutch" may be considered in a negative connotation as expressed by hk45ctp30 and as compared to the dichotomous term of "tool" expressed by stickhauler which apparently is meant to be applied to lasers in a more positive light (pun intended), crutches are indeed a form of tools.
 
Last night I was able to see the intimidation that a red dot can cause first hand. I witnessed two cops pull out tasers on a very out of hand psych patient. The mere sight of the red dot on his chest changed the whole dynamic. The guy went from Super Man to compliant very quickly. He was instantly terrified of what would happen next.

It has me rethinking the idea of a laser for my CCW. I was amazed at the psychological advantage it gave those officers. It worked much faster than I would have imagined.
 
I have CT on two of my main SD/HD guns... Like it a lot!... Expense easily justified for me... It's VERY efficient and comforting to be able to shoot from waist level with as much control, accuracy, and confidence as with straight-arm eye-level. (But I'm not DEPENDENT on it... Not ALL my SD guns have it.)
 
Of course danger can occur at any time and at any hour but the majority of incidents are in the evening so as a general rule the laser is more likely to be able to be seen in most situations.
 
Just remember to preflight your laser, then.

EG, turn on the on-off switch as part of your check (assuming you use a laser with a separate on/off switch, like a CTC revolver grip). For those of us who turn them off when not in use, to save battery life, not checking switch position might well interfere with seeing the laser, even in full dark.

EG, check the laser brightness. (I'd be in for a big surprise right now with my PM9 LaserGuard, if I didn't know the battery was weak and the dot almost indistinguishable; eventually I'll get a new battery, but I haven't carried the PM9 in a while, and it hasn't been a priority.)

Looking for a dot that isn't going to be there could cause a fatal delay.

I know, some of the laser guys will say, "I always check this." But it seems to me some of the laser guys were among those who've said, "I don't need to do a press check because my defensive gun is ALWAYS loaded."
 
The lasers serve a purpose. Ideally yes, everybody would be extremely proficient with their firearm, put in tons of range time, have perfect vision, etc.

My old lady is/was not very good when it comes to shooting, the whole "I don't like the loud boom" thing comes into play quite a bit. Her fear of the boom was causing her to do all kinds of crazy stuff that was causing her to completely miss the target at 10 yards or less. Some time back I decided, ok since she couldn't hit the side of a barn, I would do everything I could to try to help her hit the target which basically meant throwing a laser on the gun. I would have never picked up on what was going on with her shooting had I not put the laser on there. Now that I knew what was going on I was able to point it out to her and help her work through some of the issues. I have also been able to get her to start shooting other guns semi-accurately using only the sights because of what she learned using the gun with the laser. She doesn't really enjoy shooting and thats fine, my goal really is just to have her able to use it proficiently should the need ever arise. She is not a CCW holder so should something ever come up where she will need to use the gun it will be in the home only. At the range is one thing...I'm there, theres no pressure to shoot accurately. I feel confident that should something come up at home, her being able to put a red dot on something is not something she will struggle with. She knows the gun well enough to know, put the dot on target, pull the trigger, you will hit where the dot was, no second guessing, no wondering.

The laser is on the primary house gun so theres been a few times when I have had to grab it. Waking up to strange noises in the middle of the night, I am not going to be a perfect marksman...I know this much. That and anything thats going to happen in the middle of the night means all lights in this house are off. The laser is serving 2 purposes here. That thing is bright enough to light up a room, enough for me to make out shapes and spot movement anyways. Also makes it alot easier to know where I am aiming while still half asleep.

I'm not a criminal nor do I associate with any so I can't ask them, but I am betting that theres got to be some sort of an intimidation factor with lasers. Break into a house in the middle of the night, next thing you know you have a laser aimed directly at you...do you continue on or get the hell outta dodge as fast as possible?

Are lasers for everybody? Probably not. There is definately a part of the gun owning world that is benefitting from them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top