I have CT Grips on my S&W Mod 36, and they have been a big help in improving my "point shooting". Bring the pistol up to your point shooting position without the Laser, then activate the Laser and see where you would have hit. Do this enough, and you will be amazed at how accurate you can point shoot without the Laser.
Are laser grips a must? crimson sale,
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That's kind of a silly statement.
They will help you with your shooting. I'm a firm believer in using your sights, but I'm a realist, on my little 642 the sights are hard to see in low light situations.
Plus in shooting from cover, often you wouldn't be able to line up your sights with out undo exposure. (a point about that later).
One of the best benefits I found with the CT laser is in dry firing, it really helps with your trigger control. When my shooting starts going south (and it will) I stop my practice session, and dry fire with the laser for about 20 min. or so and then go back to my shooting, which improved.
About shooting from cover. A little game I like to play is get behind a barricade, use an inspection mirror to see the target, the poke my revolver around the barricade, use the mirror to see the red dot on the target, and shoot without exposing anything but the gun and mirror. Try it, you'd be surprised how accurate you can get.
I think it is a must for a self defense weapon
As someone else said, watch the marketing videos linked from crimson trace's website. They make some good points. (shooting from compromised positions, etc)
The one drawback to them is that they are not really daylight visible, so they're not too useful outdoors in broad daylight. I can make it work up to about 10 yards at the range, but I sure wouldn't try to use it in a SD scenario.
Another great strenth is that at the indoor range, they take away the advantage of a longer sight radius. I can now shoot my 3" SP-101 just as well or better at 25 yards as I can my 7.5" Redhawk.
The killer is the price. If you get one, you will love it. But it is just hard to part with that much money. When we think hundreds of dollars, we're thinking "gun money" not "grip money" or "sight money."
I used google shopping to find a good price on mine. Mine were going for $250+, but I found one retailer that was selling them for $220. The folks trying to sell them on gunbroker seem to be pretty greedy, by and large.
I recommend getting a set for your carry or home defense gun.
This was only at 7 yards, but it is easy to get cloverleaf groups with the CTC at 7 yards, even with only a 3" barrel:
I went with the model that gave room for my pinky:
You can't tell by the pix, but they're also good grips in their own right. On par with Hogue.
As someone else said, watch the marketing videos linked from crimson trace's website. They make some good points. (shooting from compromised positions, etc)
The one drawback to them is that they are not really daylight visible, so they're not too useful outdoors in broad daylight. I can make it work up to about 10 yards at the range, but I sure wouldn't try to use it in a SD scenario.
Another great strenth is that at the indoor range, they take away the advantage of a longer sight radius. I can now shoot my 3" SP-101 just as well or better at 25 yards as I can my 7.5" Redhawk.
The killer is the price. If you get one, you will love it. But it is just hard to part with that much money. When we think hundreds of dollars, we're thinking "gun money" not "grip money" or "sight money."
I used google shopping to find a good price on mine. Mine were going for $250+, but I found one retailer that was selling them for $220. The folks trying to sell them on gunbroker seem to be pretty greedy, by and large.
I recommend getting a set for your carry or home defense gun.
This was only at 7 yards, but it is easy to get cloverleaf groups with the CTC at 7 yards, even with only a 3" barrel:
I went with the model that gave room for my pinky:
You can't tell by the pix, but they're also good grips in their own right. On par with Hogue.
Jbar4Ranch
New member
Laser grips are a gimmick. They're OK for developing muscle memory and eye/hand coordination, but if you feel you need them for a practical defensive application, you're not practicing enough.
MikeNice81
New member
I remember when I asked an instructor for his take on laser sights. He laughed and told me to try pointing a laser pointer down the hall way at night. It points right back to your hand every time.
Lasers are great training tools. I would be hesitant to use one in a real life low light SD situation.
Lasers are great training tools. I would be hesitant to use one in a real life low light SD situation.
I must disagree, red lasers don't show up in the air unless there is smoke or a crap ton of dust.
To anyone who says they would never use one, I guess they are positive they will always be able to extend their arms and line up their sights in a SD situation. I will always try to use my sights first, but, I am also glad I have one on my SD weapon just in case. I practice with it one on as much as I do with it off. Next time your at the range, if allowed, try laying on your back, side, stomach, whatever and shoot at your target right in front of you without using your sights.
To the OP, they are not a must, but if you can get a crimson trace (one of the best, hence the cost) at a good price, go for it. If you don't like or feel you need them, sell them for a slight loss.
To the OP, they are not a must, but if you can get a crimson trace (one of the best, hence the cost) at a good price, go for it. If you don't like or feel you need them, sell them for a slight loss.
Different strokes...
I have owned a few handguns with lasers. Like orionengr, I also found them useful for dry-fire practice. And I can see a few instances where they might come in handy for SD, such as shooting around a barrier - one doesn't have to expose as much of his head to see where the laser dot is, as opposed to lining up sights. Possibly for shooting from the hip, I suppose, but I can only see doing that if a BG is right up on me, in which case it's shove it into his solar plexus and pull the trigger anyway.
I've sold or given away two of my three laser-fitted guns. I rarely use the laser on the remaining one. I find I am faster, and just as accurate at SD ranges using the sights on my PM9; I find that looking for the dot takes longer than getting a sight picture, in most instances.
My dad, on the other hand, loves the laser on the 442 I gave him. Go figure.
He doesn't shoot very often, though, and I think that's a part of it. Most of the people I know who shoot a lot, tend to use their lasers less.
I have owned a few handguns with lasers. Like orionengr, I also found them useful for dry-fire practice. And I can see a few instances where they might come in handy for SD, such as shooting around a barrier - one doesn't have to expose as much of his head to see where the laser dot is, as opposed to lining up sights. Possibly for shooting from the hip, I suppose, but I can only see doing that if a BG is right up on me, in which case it's shove it into his solar plexus and pull the trigger anyway.
I've sold or given away two of my three laser-fitted guns. I rarely use the laser on the remaining one. I find I am faster, and just as accurate at SD ranges using the sights on my PM9; I find that looking for the dot takes longer than getting a sight picture, in most instances.
My dad, on the other hand, loves the laser on the 442 I gave him. Go figure.
He doesn't shoot very often, though, and I think that's a part of it. Most of the people I know who shoot a lot, tend to use their lasers less.
Mrgunsngear
New member
I was on the fence on laser sights. After reading LTC Grossman's "On Combat" and "On Killing" I've changed my mind. Humans have a natural tendancy to focus on the threat in a stressful situation. Can you train yourself to look at your sights under stress? Yes. But, I've found in my many years of training that it's hard to overcome human nature. If I'm naturally going to focus on the threat, why not put a big red dot on that very threat...
plouffedaddy, you assume you will always be able to discern the dot. That can be affected by lighting conditions, and the color of the BG's clothing.
Also, while stress may make it harder to take note of the sights, I look at it this way:
If I can take the time to decide which engine is on fire or has lost power prior to shutting down fuel, etc (although it only takes a second, if that), I can probably take the time to find a flash picture.
Haven't had to find out yet, and hope I never will, but I suspect that will be the case.
Also, while stress may make it harder to take note of the sights, I look at it this way:
If I can take the time to decide which engine is on fire or has lost power prior to shutting down fuel, etc (although it only takes a second, if that), I can probably take the time to find a flash picture.
Haven't had to find out yet, and hope I never will, but I suspect that will be the case.
Absolutely correct you may not always be able to see the dot but in that case you will also still be able to use your front sight, also many police agencies do you lasers and I would be willing to bet some require lasers.
It is a different strokes for different folks dont let all the hog wash about laser failure and blah blah fool you it all seems to have little if any documentation... If someones dumb enough to not change the batteries on some sort of schedule (for me every 6 months) than thats on the user.
Again some people will give you every excuse in the world not to use one, but thats all they are is excuses and opinions.
Prior to my retirement from the Army in 2007 I didnt know a single infantryman that didnt use a laser when they went to the field, not one...
Like them, love them or find no use for them they are a tool, ultimately your the one behind the trigger and its what you like that matters.
It is a different strokes for different folks dont let all the hog wash about laser failure and blah blah fool you it all seems to have little if any documentation... If someones dumb enough to not change the batteries on some sort of schedule (for me every 6 months) than thats on the user.
Again some people will give you every excuse in the world not to use one, but thats all they are is excuses and opinions.
Prior to my retirement from the Army in 2007 I didnt know a single infantryman that didnt use a laser when they went to the field, not one...
Like them, love them or find no use for them they are a tool, ultimately your the one behind the trigger and its what you like that matters.
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A friend who teaches a CC course bought one for a revolver, and another for his Glock. He wanted to see how they would do for him.
He went to a handgun course taught by a well known instructor (I don't remember who).
Both of them agreed, after shooting with a timer, that they slowed one's times. When he returned I tried them, and as they had done learned that it is slower to look for the dot and shoot vs normal point shooting. It was obvious to me that I did not want one.
Some obviously like them, but I do not. If one has the opportunity to try one before buying it might save some money.
Regards,
Jerry
He went to a handgun course taught by a well known instructor (I don't remember who).
Both of them agreed, after shooting with a timer, that they slowed one's times. When he returned I tried them, and as they had done learned that it is slower to look for the dot and shoot vs normal point shooting. It was obvious to me that I did not want one.
Some obviously like them, but I do not. If one has the opportunity to try one before buying it might save some money.
Regards,
Jerry
Double Naught Spy
New member
This is the sort of argument made for lasers and flashlights alike. The vast majority of the folks involved in gunfights are not clandestine Seal Team 6 members on a secret mission. They are people assaulted first and for who the bad guys already clearly know their location.
Lots of people like gadgets and lots of people don't like lasers in general and as seen in this thread, don't like laser grips at all. I have tried several models of laser grips and gun mounted lasers. I don't like them at all for pistols (my preference, not saying they aren't beneficial to some folks) and the only interesting application I have found for them for rifles is when used with NV for hunting hogs at night, but even then, that is a novelty.
I don't particularly care for the Sig P220, so maybe laser grips might be an improvement for it, LOL.
With enough training and practice, you can be just as fast with a laser. I have seen those who are. Most folks don't get that training and stay proficient, however. This is because for most people, they don't learn to shoot with a laser. They learn to shoot with regular sights and there are some mindset issues that differ considerably between the two when it comes to considerations about their uses.
The best real world justification I have heard is that lasers make it much for possible for far-sighted people to be able to shoot accurately without their glasses. If you can't see your sights, it can be hard to aim properly and so the laser really can be a good compensatory tool in that regard.
I have them on three handguns, a T-series 9mm Browning Hi Power, an S&W 637 J-frame snubby (the first to get them), and an S&W 686. Crimson Trace laser grips are a must for me, so much so that I will not buy a handgun that CT does not make a set of grips for. Of course, I'm eighty now and cannot even SEE the iron sights without my glasses on. But in a home defense situation and Crimson Trace laser grips, I'm good enough. I belong to a range and usually practice weekly at 5-10 yards.
For those who feel no need for laser sights or feel they are too expensive, I have no quarrel. However for those who sneer at laser sights, I have a question: Did you try them once in front of friends, and were humiliated by the way the red dot staggered all over the place? If so, that was you, not the laser. But then, deep down inside, you knew that.
Cordially, Jack
For those who feel no need for laser sights or feel they are too expensive, I have no quarrel. However for those who sneer at laser sights, I have a question: Did you try them once in front of friends, and were humiliated by the way the red dot staggered all over the place? If so, that was you, not the laser. But then, deep down inside, you knew that.
Cordially, Jack