Anyone know suarez international?

Sure, ammo choice has never played a role in a conviction....

Although prosecutors in the Harold Fish case made a huge deal out of his 10mm HP ammo, and the jury bought it as proof of intent to kill. (Note that in the jury selection process, NRA members, hunters, etc typically get excluded from gun related cases - the attorneys like to paint on blank canvas.)

Fish was convicted. He won on appeal - how much did he spend in legal fees? How much did he lose in terms of sleep and jail time?

The Bias case only tangentially brought handloads into play. The lesson in that case is one of admissibility. The judge ruled that since the loads were made by Bias, and the logs were also made by Bias, that the handload evidence could not be impartially verified. Many people don't think a case about a possible suicide has any bearing.

But it could, if you claimed you shot a guy who was grabbing your weapon, but the GSR didn't seem to agree with a point-blank shot. Defense experts might not be able to get their own GSR tests into evidence, based on the Bias precedent.

Do what you want. Just remember that the jury of our peers really isn't. And remember that an unethical or even an uninformed prosecutor may go for emotion-based attacks on your character based on perceptions of your weapon and ammo choices.

And realize you may have to defend those choices. Be prepared in advance.
 
Seed, if I'm allowed a cliche, your response is disingenuous at best.

In your earlier post, you claim that someone has me "pinned down" (present tense), and you now try to support that with necro-threads from 2003 to 2005, when I was not present on the forums to speak. You still haven't explained how someone who isn't present can be pinned down.

Anyone with a high two-digit IQ can see that the Dodson writings are hate-rant hatchet jobs. Following the threads from The Firing Line, one can find where one of the attorneys involved in the case presented documentation of my part in the Hanson matter. Dodson's "proof" that I got something wrong in regard to the 4/11/86 incident consists of juxtaposing my comments, often quotes from the participants in the gunfights, to Dr. Anderson's reconstruction and falsely assuming that Anderson's comments were automatically correct and mine automatically wrong. Dr. Anderson himself made clear in his lectures that many of his conclusions were conjectural.

Seed, your commentary here cries out for you to take classes in critical thinking, and Ethics 101. I suggest the ethics class first.
 
emotion-based attacks on your character based on perceptions of your weapon and ammo choices.
Click to expand...

That's true, but in addition to re-loads, the same thing can be said for "magnums, hollow points (dum dum bullets), full metal jackets, Hard Ball, military guns (Berettas & 1911s), the list is endless.

You just have to take your best shot (pardon the pun) and play the cards you're delt.

My contention is, I know it "may" happen, to be prepared, I got a reading from our state attorney general and any ammo not prohibited by federal law.

We all have opinions on the "ammo issue", like choosing a training school or instructor, read every thing you can find, and make your choice accordingly.
 
MLeake said:
...Just remember that the jury of our peers really isn't...
Click to expand...
True. There is nothing in the law of the United States that entitles anyone to a jury of his peers. One is entitled to an impartial jury (Constitution, Sixth Amendment); but you have no grounds upon which to insist that members of your jury be from the of the same societal group, age, status, background or education, etc., as you.

(The notion of a "jury of one's peers" comes from Magna Carta and was indeed intended to refer to being judged by one's equals. Magna Carta was forced on King John by the feudal barons to protect their interests. Their first concern was that they be judged only by nobles of similar rank. And indeed until relatively recently, a British noble charged with a crime was entitled to be tried in the House of Lords. The last trial in the House of Lords was in 1935, and the trial jurisdiction of the House of Lords was abolished in 1948.)
 
I am not going to get into this very deeply, but I can't let this one go by unchallenged:

seed said:
The Calguns link was included to let others see how that went down with the veiled threat as the admin saw it (and so did I).
Click to expand...

Seed, may I recommend that you re-read Mr. Ayoob's post again, maybe two or three times would help. Be sure that you understand each word.

At no point in his post did Ayoob make any threat to CalGuns or to anyone, veiled or overt. He was trying to assist the CalGuns staff by warning them that a suit was a possibility from the Bias attorneys due to accusations of incompetence made about them and publicly posted on their board. I saw it as a sincere gesture and a heads-up. That Kestryll took it as a threat by Ayoob against CalGuns is inexplicable except for the obvious possibility that Kestryll, like you, also failed to comprehend what Ayoob actually said. It would seem that he, like you, read into it what he, like you, wanted it to say.
 
WOW!!!

A lot of animous. I think we all have our own opinions of the more popular trainers, and writers.

As for Gabe Suarez... dont know him. I have some issues with his ethics. But I also believe that everyone deserves at least a second chance. AFTER HAVING seen some video, and some chat I dont think his methods are for me. Not saying they are wrong... just not right for me.

Masad Ayoob... I have been reading his writings since AMERICAN HANDGUNNER first hit the news stand. After following him for many years I was sworn in as a Police Officer. Ayoobs writings began making a lot more sense. As my career progressed I continued to follow Ayoob. At some point I realized there was a lot more to it than "What Mas Ayoob said" As a detective and being responsible for investigating among other things... shootings by police, and shootings by civilians. My opinions are shaped by my own training and experience. I began to somewhat break away from Ayoob's teachings, and opinions. Becoming trained for "dynamic entries" and participating on dynamic entry teams was another eye opener. There is a whole lot more to it. Having participated in several shootings, again... there is a lot more to it.

In sum and substance I have to say that Mas Ayoob is a decent, and honorable man. I believe that he has in his heart the best of intentions. No one is correct 100% of the time. There is no reasonable reason to expect him to toe that line. I do disagree with him about some pretty important issues. But I'm man enough to understand that I cant be correct 100% of the time either. Information is a power tool. You can neber have too much. I know that Mr Ayoob is a learning man who will modify his position when he get's better information. What more can any of us ask from him?

Again I think well of him. I dont always agree... but we can argue, discuss, dispute, and even talk... At the end of the day the object is to learn...
 
Hello Marty

I'd have to say that it's mostly small issues related to some of his articals. As I read them, I sometimes see things I dont agree with. Like methods of carry, methods of identifying one's self as a legally armed citizen. Maybe it's just my perspective but he seem's to assume the police will treat a civilian shooter negatively. Any civilian shooter who has gotten the same impression may become defensive and cause a real issue with the police where there was none. I dont agree with the whole say nothing and ask for a lawyer idea.

Sometimes I disagree with some of the tactics he supports.

Again... I probably agree with him a whole lot more than I disagree. As I said I've been a fan of his for a good while. Although I cant cite an exact instance... I have known Mas Ayoob to be critical of himself, and publish a better idea when he believes he see's one.

Again I have had some very in depth training , and a whole lot of real world experience in these related fields. So it follows that I have absoloute faith in that training, and absoloute confidence in my skills.
 
Glenn Dee, Mas is the last person to advise people to say nothing. I know; I took his MAG-40 class two weeks ago.

His advice (similar to the advice in his books) is that saying nothing and lawyering up is what guilty people do; it's what attorneys who are accustomed to representing actually guilty people advise their clients to do; and it will immediately raise red flags for investigating officers.

What Mas recommends doing is basically:

1) Describe the dynamic - EG that guy attacked me with a knife
2) State willingness to sign the complaint.
3) Point out any witnesses, before they disappear.
4) Point out any evidence, before it disappears.
5) At that point, tell the officers you will give a statement and cooperate further, after consulting with counsel.
 
Glenn, thanks for clarifying. For what it is worth, I don't agree 100% with any of the top trainers, but I respect them all and am pleased to call most my friends.
 
Marty: Heck, if we all agreed on everything, this wouldn't be a forum, it would be a mutual admiration society.

mleake: You nailed it.

Glenn: No hard feelings. I see you're in LE in Florida. If you're going to be at the High Liability Instructors Conference in Tallahassee in October, or the IDPA World Shoot in Frostproof next month, look me up and we'll have a cup of coffee.
 
Hey Mas

Please dont consider any of my comments to be negative or critical. As I've said before... I agree with you more often than not.

I am currently living in Florida, but retired from the NYPD. I currently lecture for a few local instructors, but thats it. I think I should probably take some time and attend a class or two. Maybe I can learn some new tricks...lol.

Glenn...
 
I think I should probably take some time and attend a class or two. Maybe I can learn some new tricks...lol.

To quote Clint Smith - "You just might be surprised... "

lpl
 
This talking bad about Instructors/Schools etc, has been going on since the trade started. Myself personally was tasked with monitoring Instructors, at Annual Training Conferences (other Instructor/board members also) I spent twenty years as a Board Member of the largest LEO Firearms Instructor organizations in the World.

Instead of sitting down with a clip board, I was part of the class. I was instructed, then wrote my critique, any risk to students, instant stop.

News... All Instructors are not created equally! Many go to classes, copy, and use those copy's to produce class information, to teach from.

All you can hope to get from a Weapons Training Class, a safe, enjoyable time on the range, with value for money.
And remember, keep hydrated! Drink plenty of water, Florida don't you know!
 
Good Lord, I've stayed out of this as long as I could but I have to say something about these attacks on kraigwy, and Mas Ayoob. First, I admit I've never personally met either of them in person. Kraigwy is a long standing member who is very knowledgeable and whose posts have only demonstrated that he is a heck of a nice guy. Mas Ayoob is one of the very strongest defenders of the 2nd Amendment and one of the best trainers out there and has helped good people deal with some bad situations in the aftermath of SD shootings. Everybody I know who has ever met him says he is a great guy and I hope to take his 80 class soon. In closing, anybody attacking, or questioning the abilities or ethics of either of these men is not going to make any friends here. (Sorry for interrupting the witch hunt, carry on at your pleasure:()
 
Do not know the other Gent, but I know Mr. Ayoob, nice person, shoots well, does his share of range work at the matches, patch targets etc.

Never heard him bad mouth any one either.

You really show your self up when you do talk about others, say it about the wrong person, your nose can be reshaped some what.
 
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