An Expert Says No to Laser Sights

Thats just one "expert", heck wasn't too long ago that the medical experts said that tobacco was GOOD for you! I'll use my own judgement on what works for me thanks.
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I actually LIKE the laser on the one gun as it's does make a great dry fire platform. It's a cheap red laser and while great at night, it is near invisible in the day. I also have a green laser that is easily visible out to 100 yards in the day and it will lay a green rope to the target at night. I could imagine seeing that green rope scanning across the room and getting nearer and nearer causing concern in the mind of a BG.

I also don't get the complaint that the laser/flashlight will ID you to the BG. Well, in a combat situation, I guess I do see it. But in the house at night when a lamp breaks at 2AM, I'm not going to shoot at shadows. I might have just tucked that "shadow" into bed 5 hours earlier.
 
So being an NRA instructor is a joke, along with CCW instructor in several states and commander of a riot squad. Not to mention his other LE experience.
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Padding his resume as a firearms instructor with the fact he's a Notary Public is a joke.
 
I agree with the no laser idea. I would never use one in a self defense situation. The reasons for not using laser sights are stated and I think they are all valid. Point shooting is one of the most important skills for self defense with a handgun. Laser sights give away one's position, detract from one's focus on the target and the speed with which one must acquire the target and shoot. You can have them.
 
Interesting comments by the "expert"

When your heart beats get to around 120 Beats per minute and the adrenaline is flowing and the body goes into the flight or fight mode the first thing your body will do is switch you to tunnel vision and I guarantee you that you will not see the dot nor will you have the presence of mind to do so.
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120 beats per minute (hormonal) causes tunnel vision?

This reply was offered...
If the author had really read Grossman and other studies of the physiological aspects of deadly force encounters, he would know that as the heart rate accelerates past 132 bpm, you lose the ability to focus on close objects. Combine this with the fact that your attention will, naturally, be focused on the threat, and you'll find that point shooting skills are the best means of surviving the situation.
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And we see that the OP expert had suggested reading Grossman and to verify the information.

I have talked to too many people that have been in that situation including myself and all the stories are the same. Please don’t take my word for it but do some research for yourself. Read books by the experts. One to start with is ON COMBAT by Grossman, then go on from there.
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Okay, did the research. He is wrong.

Interestingly, Grossman in On Combat says that the optimal heartrate for fighting is 115-145 BPM and that you get optimal performance for complex motor skills, visual reaction, and cognitive reation. No tunnel vision. No Presbyopia. Such vision problems are more likely encountered at much higher heart rates, around 175 BPM. (see http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q...7JsT7I&sig=AHIEtbSX3jg_LHIjQRjSLIj2lGUTJu6c-A)

I have always said that if I ever have to use my hand gun I hope the other person is using a Laser. I am not saying there is not a place for the laser as there well may be but not in this case. Technology cannot substitute for expertise.
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Technology cannot substitute for experience? Strangely, proponents for firearms-based self defense note repeatedly that technology often does an excellent job of substituting for experience when as folks with little fight experience and often exceedingly little gun experience manage to use firearms (technology) to substitute for their lack of experience and be successful in self defense.

As for the issue of lasers, whether or not they are a good or useful combat tool according to the experts is going to be determined by what experts you solicit for opinions. There are experts that say lasers are a useful tool. I would be willing to bet that at some point in the distant past, some "expert" probably voiced his opinion that putting sights on a firearm wasn't a good idea either.
 
I don't see the benefit in this forum of discussions over who is or isn't an expert. Breaking out the measuring stick and comparing size has NEVER in my humble opinion had a direct relationship to the success of our students in the performance of their duties or skills.

As far as a laser sight system, I am of a mixed mind. I can see the potential benefits and flaws of their use. I will fall back on a great shooter who when asked what is appropriate training answered "any type of aid or training that enhances our ability to hit what we aim at is GOOD, anything that hinders our ability to hit what we aim at is BAD. Only you yourself can make the decision of goodness or badness."

Good Luck & Be Safe
 
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You want "experts"?
Have you ever taken a look at Michael Bane's resume? The man needs no padding of his resume to impress even the most experienced amongst us. How about Ken Hackathorn? Take a look at his resume. And, you want shooting skills? Look at Bill Wilson and Todd Jarrett. All of those guys endorse the use of Crimson Trace lasergrips. I'll take their opinion over all these concealed weapons class instructors ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

As for all the "reliability" stuff about dead batteries, etc... Gee, you have no problem carrying a semi-auto but you're worried about dead batteries? Get real.
 
I remember when laser sights first came out it seemed like the very mention of them was a call for a national luddite convention!! Opinions expressed on gun forums was about 80% nay and 20% yay. I think that over the years the ratio has reversed.
 
I have to question the motives of the so called expert. I don't know his background but I totally disagree with his opinions on laser sights.
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That says it for me too. We all know what a laser will or will not do, dissing them for shady reasons lacks crediblity, IMHO.
 
First and foremost, I AM NO EXPERT.

I recently purchased my first pistol with a lasersight, the SW Bodyguard (revolver). From limited use, there are two points that apply TO ME:

1. Kraigwy is absolutely correct about the laser being a great practice tool for dry firing.

2. I have a bit of trouble in transitioning between the laser sights and the iron (polymer) sights. Do I look at the dot and ignore the sights or do I use the sights and ignore the dot? I've always used the regular sights and instinctively go to them. This is undoubtedly a training/use issue but its there.

I always tend to view with skepticism anyone who speaks in absolutes. A particular solution may work better for some people than others, especially in different situations.
 
For me the jury is still out on the benefits of a laser.

After 66 years on planet earth the word " EXPERT " always raises a red flag.
 
Quote:
All of those guys endorse the use of Crimson Trace lasergrips.
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Or whatever other company that would pay them to!
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so the 1st expert who sells holsters which are incompatible with lasers is valid.
(makes his living from sales of his laser incompatible product)

But the experts who endorse lasers are invalid...
(gets paid for endorsement of product)

Hrm...

Just an interesting tidbit from wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perception
The processes of perception routinely alter what humans see. When people view something with a preconceived concept about it, they tend to take those concepts and see them whether or not they are there. This problem stems from the fact that humans are unable to understand new information, without the inherent bias of their previous knowledge. A person’s knowledge creates his or her reality as much as the truth, because the human mind can only contemplate that to which it has been exposed.
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but I can't see how any of that would apply to firearms or whose "expert. is better...:D
 
so the 1st expert who sells holsters which are incompatible with lasers is valid.
(makes his living from sales of his laser incompatible product)
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I don't think he said he couldn't make one, they are supposedly custom made. Just that he doesn't make them, and states his view why he doesn't like them.
As I stated before, along with others. If you like the laser, and feel confident with it fine. Just don't try to make it appear that everyone that choose to keep things simple are all going to be gunned down in their home or on the street because they choose to not partake in modern electronic gadgets.
 
For me the jury is still out on the benefits of a laser.

After 66 years on planet earth the word " EXPERT " always raises a red flag.
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For me, until I hear of at least a couple of reports of CIVILIANS successfuly using laser-assisted handguns in actual self-defense, I'm not interested. Nothing else is really going to convince me to add a doo-dad to a handgun.

Same goes for the pistol-bayonet - When someone actually uses one of these attached to their handgun in a way that helps defeat a bad-guy attacker while carrying concealed, I'll consider it.

This doesn't make me close minded, does it???............talking about the pistol bayonet's usefulness, that is - - I'll admit, I remain a little close minded toward the pistol lasers.
 
I’ve always questioned how effective lasers and even night sights would be in an actual self-defense situation. I’ve always wondered if in a high-stress situation like that if you would really have the time/focus to find that little red dot or align your sights. Point shooting with eyes wholly focused on the target seems more likely. I can see their benifit in law enforcement in offensive situations.

I do realize that there are many “statistics” and “experts” out there who support one, the other, or both and that I’m by no means qualified to discount their opinions. I simply muse over the topic to myself once in a while.

I run night sights because at the very least it can’t hurt, but I’ve yet to add a laser.
 
I've got night sights and CTC on my SIG p226. Do I think this makes me invincible? No. I enjoy them and can afford them, so what? I do practice dry firing with the laser and it works well.

It's all just tools.
 
Remember, this guy is selling something...

First of all, in any field, there are about a billion "experts". Often their opinions are in conflict.

The gentleman in question is selling holsters. Perhaps, just perhaps, it is cheaper and easier to produce said holsters for certain gun models (which would be uniform), rather than trying to produce holsters for the same model gun without trying to accomidate the laser. That might be behind his opinion of the laser. I'm just saying....

I am not commenting on the pros and cons of the lasers. I have no experience with them. I'm just saying, "Follow the Money".

Peachy
 
What galls me is for an expert to say catagorically that lasers aren't good for anyone, when I know for a fact that in at least one instance they are.

My wife is "visiually challenged" (she married me, didn't she?) and wears contacts during the daylight hours, but does not sleep with them in.

The CT laser on her nightstand gun, a Smith M36 snub, supports both her confidence and accuracy.

The CT laser on her downstairs gun, a Glock 23, also helps supports both her confidence and accuracy.

I don't care if Moses himself carries it on a tablet down a mountain and tries to tell me otherwise.

I know that to be a fact.

Maybe not for you, Mr. Expert, but don't say it's for nobody else.

(go back and re-read what Gary L. Griffiths had to say - common sense is such a rarity these days)
 
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