...a .38 special. "Don´t be a fool..."

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You get harder recoil, you get increased muzzle blast, but do you get increased wounding?

Not if both bullets expand to the same diameter and penetrate to the same depth.
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What a load of BS.
I've shot enough critters with both to tell you that there's quite a bit of difference between 850 fps and 1400 fps.
Also you might just want to read up a little on your vaunted Speer load apparently while it makes the FBI minimum, it won't if ammo gets cold.
 
I've had the opportunity to test some of these small .380's and 9mm's lately and do find them very easy to carry and shoot, but have not found some of them to be as reliable as they claim,at least the J-frame 38's go bang when there suppose too.
 
What a load of BS.
I've shot enough critters with both to tell you that there's quite a bit of difference between 850 fps and 1400 fps.
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Actually, the claim of 1400fps out of a 357 snubbie, the snubbie being the object of this thread[/B,] seems to be quite a load of BS as well.
 
Actually, the claim of 1400fps out of a 357 snubbie, the snubbie being the object of this thread[/B,] seems to be quite a load of BS as well.
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Of course claiming that I claimed 1400 from a snub would also be BS;)
would it make you feel better if I said 1250 cause there's a quite a difference there too.
 
800 vs. 1400 (or 1200)

Had the opportunity to put some Hornady 158 gr. .357's through my 2.5" S&W 19 last week. I'm sure they'd wreck a target, sure did a number on my hand! I think loads approaching the .38/44 will be my max in this gun. The 1st shot is accurate and hard-hitting, but the recoil, blast, and muzzle rise were excessive.
 
Of course claiming that I claimed 1400 from a snub would also be BS
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Only that the TOPIC was snub nose revolvers. Particularly 38 Special.
Lots over chronograph videos show it's much more common to barley break 1000 fps with a 357 snubbie. Yes, more than a 38+P Short Barrel round, but the guy on the receiving end isn't going to care about chronograph videos with a 12"+ deep hole in him. Nor is he going to measure weather the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel bullet only went a bit over 12" while the 357 went a couple inches more.
 
It was not my experience, shooting a Model 19 2.5" or an SP101 3", that the recoil and muzzle blast of the 357 made fast and accurate shooting difficult.

My current three five seven is a 3" GP100. It will likely never see a round of 38spl...I have 38's for that.
The Hornady 125gn FTX shoots accurately and easily, and achieves 1300fps in my gun.
 
I agree with 44AMP on the shot placement. There was a study years ago on incapacitation times of various ammo. I think the 357 magnum came in first or second. The time was either 3 or 6 seconds- but long enough for a knife wielder to move 10 feet and stab you. If I recall the issue was people defending themselves firing multiple shots. It was the idea you shoot and continue to shoot until the perp is on the ground. A big strong opponent, enraged or on drugs can take a chest shot until bleeding out.
There will always be a debate on the pipsqueak cartridges. They worked when you shot someone in the head. Then our nation sort of morphed into a people that couldn't shoot straight so everyone was supposed to aim for the chest area and wait for the perp to bleed out. If you shot some guy in the head you were viewed as trigger happy.
I carry a 38 spl. subnosed plus P quite a bit Never felt I was undergunned but it would be a "belly" gun- shooting some guy that was attacking you at point blank range. Dead before he hits the ground if you shoot him in the head. Now you could throw a BASEBALL and hit someone in the head close up. If you can't do that with a handgun- go practice.
 
Nor is he going to measure weather the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel bullet only went a bit over 12" while the 357 went a couple inches more.
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Just like the BG will let you know if you're shooting fast enough, he'll let you know if you had enough penatration.

Check out the details of the '86 Miami shootout the 115gr silver tip bullet that "failed" to stop Platt meets the 12" minimum standard;)
 
Check out the details of the '86 Miami shootout the 115gr silver tip bullet that "failed"
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Now we're back to almost 30 year old antiquated bullet technology. Very similar, if not exactly the fallacy of Mr. Suit in the OP.
 
Hey, so what, I think the guy was happy with his choice of caliber, what ever that might be, does not mean a 38 Special is a bad round regardless of his reasoning.

I do like the ballistic tests and reports at www.brassfetcher.com. He has an excellent page on the ballistic tests he has conducted in ballistic gel, with bone stimulants, etc, in 38 Special. A good number of the bullets out there will meet the “FBI” criteria in a snubby.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/38 Special/38 Special.htm

Snubby penetration in bone:

http://www.brassfetcher.com/38 Special/38 Special Bone Test.pdf

It is my opinion that a 38 Special snubbie is an excellent combination of compact size and lethality.
 
I think I read somewhere, probably this site, that .22s have killed more people than any other caliber. That probably excludes wars, I don't know.
 
My best friend in high school was shot in the chest with his hunting partners .22LR from 5yds in a tragic hunting accident. He expired in less than 30 minutes while being buddy carried off the mountain they were squirrel hunting on. This kid was a star football player, 6'2" 230lb line backer. The kid that accidentally discharged his rifle told me at his funeral that our friend dropped immediately, never had a chance. A big strong kid. That .22LR bullet could have hit that kid about anywhere else and he would have walked away but that accidental discharge went between two ribs and into the heart. Tragic.

Any weapon can kill when discharged.

As I said in an earlier post, I don't want to be shot by anything including a .38!!! I doubt that any of the .38 doubters want to stand in front of one at close range either, just saying :D

There are so many variables to this ".38 is for fools" scenario that the right answer or wrong answer doesn't exist.

Its kinda like politics and religion........My $.02 for what little its really worth
 
None of the minutiae matter, because so many people are not going to change their mode of dress to carry more than a pocket gun in guess what caliber. Personally, my situation allows enjoying and concealing about anything I want. My favorites are 38 S&W Special and 44 S&W Special. A gun that is reasonably user friendly in .357 Magnum is necessarily big enough to be a range-only gun or gets a reduced level load for 4" carry. Those who somehow like the flash and recoil are welcome to the smallish guns.
 
Interesting Thread, I enjoyed reading it. But am I dissuaded from carrying my 36? Uh NOPE. I practice alot with that thing, in all sorts of situations. I want to see someone walk away from 2 38's center mass. And I assure you those 2 bullets will diffuse the situation. I personally carry Hornady critical defense in my 36 simply because she likes them. And thats something thats missed here, there are all sorts of GOOD 38 snubbie Self defense rounds out there, BUT how well does YOUR weapon shoot them. Its an important factor that needs to be figured out too ya know. If your speer gold dot is the BEST on the market right now, but you snubbie puts them all over the place from a rest, then is it a good idea to settle for that load?
 
People die when you shoot them with snub 38s. It's a fact. People also die when you shoot them with .32s. Ditto .22s. Ditto black powder derringers, hammers, knives, even screwdrivers. The key is can you put the bullet into the bad guy, and ARE YOU LUCKY?

Carry anything .380 auto or larger, and you have already got the first part won. The second part is getting the bullet into the bad guy and keeping him from killing you.

The simple fact is that if you get a .38 round into a person and he still manages to kill you after that, hitting him with a 9mm or even a .45 may not have made any difference at all.
 
Now we're back to almost 30 year old antiquated bullet technology. Very similar, if not exactly the fallacy of Mr. Suit in the OP.
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The physiology of what stops the BG hasn't changed in 30 years and 12" is still 12".
12" is the minimum not the optimal, if you have a load that only penatrates the minimum under ideal conditions then it's going to be marginal, thist is the same no as it was 30 and 100 years ago and it'll be the same 30 years from now.
 
Originally posted by mavracer:

The physiology of what stops the BG hasn't changed in 30 years and 12" is still 12".
12" is the minimum not the optimal, if you have a load that only penatrates the minimum under ideal conditions then it's going to be marginal, thist is the same no as it was 30 and 100 years ago and it'll be the same 30 years from now.
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Just as being able to hit the spot where minimal/optimal penetration does the most damage has not lost it's importance, nor will it ever. In the right spot, 12'' on a human is plenty. That has not changed either.
 
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