Well to me, bigger is better. The only trouble is when bigger gets to be such a bother lugging around that after a while you decide to forget it and leave bigger at home or in the glove compartment of a vehicle and then you have nothing. Bigger people can more comfortably carry a bigger caliber gun but in short, I think the answer is carry the biggest gun you can comfortably carry on a permanent basis. The 38 sub. With plus p's it is "pretty good" and better than another choice left at home. If you can handle a small 9mm then fine. More fire power. If you are a little tiny women and a 25ACP is "it", well if you shoot a BG in the head- that works.
...a .38 special. "Don´t be a fool..."
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in all seriousness, I would be inclined to not suggest a +p round in the snub for anyone who isn't willing to master them. There is a large difference between handling for every change of ammunition, be it a 110+p or even a 158 sub sonic velocity.
IMO, it may be a safer, better alternative for a snub to be loaded with a good combat 158 grain at standard pressure. I have not personally handled a snub, but a standard smith K frame 4 " barrel gives widely varying results in all aspects of shooting. It makes a difference.
Also important, everyone should keep in mind that 12" is a GUIDELINE and not carved in stone, and not achieving the guideline will not result in a time out or a spanking. People have been killed even after putting 12 inches through their opponents. Men fought through combat with 30 caliber battle rifles with lethal wounds. Nothing guarantees survival. Likewise, nothing on this planet guarantees that you will lose a gunfight, but a person's chance of surviving one get very poor if a poorly chosen weapon is used.
Don't use an underpowered weapon and fail to disable the opponent. Don't use an uncontrollable weapon and miss or fail to disable. Don't buy one that you leave home, and thus present no threat to the opponent.
MAKE WHATEVER COMPROMISES YOU MUST MAKE TO ENSURE THAT YOU HAVE A WEAPON THAT YOU CAN COMFORTABLY TRANSPORT, USE WELL, AND WILL USE AT ALL TIMES, THAT WILL STILL HAVE THE POWER TO CAUSE SERIOUS INJURY.
It's all a matter of learning what handguns are appropriate and then choosing one.
And to the point, I suggest a standard pressure .38 in 158 with good hollow points, in a snub, if that is what you choose. Trust me, the 158 grain .38 special in quality ammo is every bit the equal of the 115 grain 9mm for practical purposes. either one will cause serious wounds.
IMO, it may be a safer, better alternative for a snub to be loaded with a good combat 158 grain at standard pressure. I have not personally handled a snub, but a standard smith K frame 4 " barrel gives widely varying results in all aspects of shooting. It makes a difference.
Also important, everyone should keep in mind that 12" is a GUIDELINE and not carved in stone, and not achieving the guideline will not result in a time out or a spanking. People have been killed even after putting 12 inches through their opponents. Men fought through combat with 30 caliber battle rifles with lethal wounds. Nothing guarantees survival. Likewise, nothing on this planet guarantees that you will lose a gunfight, but a person's chance of surviving one get very poor if a poorly chosen weapon is used.
Don't use an underpowered weapon and fail to disable the opponent. Don't use an uncontrollable weapon and miss or fail to disable. Don't buy one that you leave home, and thus present no threat to the opponent.
MAKE WHATEVER COMPROMISES YOU MUST MAKE TO ENSURE THAT YOU HAVE A WEAPON THAT YOU CAN COMFORTABLY TRANSPORT, USE WELL, AND WILL USE AT ALL TIMES, THAT WILL STILL HAVE THE POWER TO CAUSE SERIOUS INJURY.
It's all a matter of learning what handguns are appropriate and then choosing one.
And to the point, I suggest a standard pressure .38 in 158 with good hollow points, in a snub, if that is what you choose. Trust me, the 158 grain .38 special in quality ammo is every bit the equal of the 115 grain 9mm for practical purposes. either one will cause serious wounds.
this thread has begun to remind me of a line from a movie with Terri Garr and Michael Keaton, Mr. Mom, I think. two people are looking over someone shot with a snub, one says to the shooter, wow, what is that, a 38? the answer was 38, 39, whatever it takes.
Whether it is velocity, expansion, penetration, magic bullets, or whatever, each of us decides what it will take to get the job done. All the rest is just physics.
David
Whether it is velocity, expansion, penetration, magic bullets, or whatever, each of us decides what it will take to get the job done. All the rest is just physics.
David
Cheapshooter
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Another totally absurd, unsubstantiated, and useless comment. Teetering very close to the edge of Mall Ninja mentality!
When all your "evidence" is successfully refuted you only have absurdity to fall back on?
Deaf Smith
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30 or so years ago a woman NYPD cop entered a bank not knowing a stickup by three men was in progress.
She was armed with a 2 inch 5 shot Chiefs revolver and, no doubt, 158gr LRN 'widow maker' bullets (the 'widow' was supposed to be the cop's spouse, not the bad guy's spouse.)
She engaged all three, all armed with handguns, one a 1911 .45, and wounded two and captured all three.
No bad, not bad at all.
Now a 2 inch snub isn't a .45, nor a high capacity .40, but loaded with say, Buffalo Bore 158gr LSWHP 'non +p' slugs at an honest 850 from a 2 inch barrel and you have the classic 'FBI' load used by the FBI for many years.
And yes, my Colt Dick Special (made in 1966) works with that load and I have no qualms about using it.
The only real downside to a snub is they are harder to master. Takes alot of practice.
But if you practice well, that snub will get become a life long companion.
The advice giver mentioned at the first of this thread knew nothing of what he was talking about.
Deaf
She was armed with a 2 inch 5 shot Chiefs revolver and, no doubt, 158gr LRN 'widow maker' bullets (the 'widow' was supposed to be the cop's spouse, not the bad guy's spouse.)
She engaged all three, all armed with handguns, one a 1911 .45, and wounded two and captured all three.
No bad, not bad at all.
Now a 2 inch snub isn't a .45, nor a high capacity .40, but loaded with say, Buffalo Bore 158gr LSWHP 'non +p' slugs at an honest 850 from a 2 inch barrel and you have the classic 'FBI' load used by the FBI for many years.
And yes, my Colt Dick Special (made in 1966) works with that load and I have no qualms about using it.
The only real downside to a snub is they are harder to master. Takes alot of practice.
But if you practice well, that snub will get become a life long companion.
The advice giver mentioned at the first of this thread knew nothing of what he was talking about.
Deaf
Cheapshooter
New member
No, it's absurd to think a 38 snubbie loaded with Gold Dot Short Barrel rounds wouldn't penetrate it. And enough of Mr. BG to stop the threat.
Cheapshooter
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Correct Deaf, and multiply the difficulty with the extra recoil, flash, and muzzle blast if you have Magnumitis, and you'll need much more expensive, wrist slamming practice to master it.
Some people don't like or trust revolvers. Some want at least 14 rounds in a semi-auto. Some don't think the 38 Special is enough cartridge. Everyone has his own opinion. Calling someone who doesn't agree with you 100% "a fool" is little brusque, but he's entitled to his opinion.
I carried a 38 Special revolver for about 10 years. I wanted a little more power so I carried my own 125@1125 FPS load, but there is likely specialty ammo that matches that. I felt comfortable with my choice. Some would not. That's their prerogative.
BTW- Two years I traded the 2" 38 for a super compact 380. The 90@1000 FPS is a real step down in power, but the pistol is so compact and light I had to go with it for daily carry.
The debate over cartridges and platforms has been ongoing since the invention of defensive handguns. No reason to think it will end anytime soon.
I carried a 38 Special revolver for about 10 years. I wanted a little more power so I carried my own 125@1125 FPS load, but there is likely specialty ammo that matches that. I felt comfortable with my choice. Some would not. That's their prerogative.
BTW- Two years I traded the 2" 38 for a super compact 380. The 90@1000 FPS is a real step down in power, but the pistol is so compact and light I had to go with it for daily carry.
The debate over cartridges and platforms has been ongoing since the invention of defensive handguns. No reason to think it will end anytime soon.
jglsprings
New member
And the original O/P is long gone laughing up his "story" sleeve.
Cheapshooter
New member
NOTHING guarantees 1 shot stops. Not 38 Spcl, 357 Magnum, 40 S&W, 45acp, or even my 45-70 Continder.
But the Speer Gold Dots are as capable As anything else.
Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement!
Too much focus on the minutia in the middle and not enough focus on the desired result; ending the fight.
As noted in American Handgunner average number of rounds to end a fight is somewhere between 1.5 and 2.5 for damn near every handgun caliber.
http://fmgpublications.ipaperus.com/FMGPublications/AmericanHandgunner/AHSO13/?page=54
This dude comes to a similar conclusion
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power
What I draw from this is that all handgun calibers equally suck at stopping an attacker, which is the goal. The only reason to have a handgun is because society frowns on us walking around with shotguns or rifles. If we knew there was going to be a fight we would choose to be somewhere else. If we couldn't be somewhere else we'd choose a tank. If we couldn't have a tank we would choose a ma deuce -- so on and so forth until you get to having just a handgun.
With that in mind, choose which ever one you like and can reliably make multiple center mass hits with and go from there.
As noted in American Handgunner average number of rounds to end a fight is somewhere between 1.5 and 2.5 for damn near every handgun caliber.
http://fmgpublications.ipaperus.com/FMGPublications/AmericanHandgunner/AHSO13/?page=54
This dude comes to a similar conclusion
http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/alternate-look-handgun-stopping-power
What I draw from this is that all handgun calibers equally suck at stopping an attacker, which is the goal. The only reason to have a handgun is because society frowns on us walking around with shotguns or rifles. If we knew there was going to be a fight we would choose to be somewhere else. If we couldn't be somewhere else we'd choose a tank. If we couldn't have a tank we would choose a ma deuce -- so on and so forth until you get to having just a handgun.
With that in mind, choose which ever one you like and can reliably make multiple center mass hits with and go from there.
James K said:
While it is admittedly rare, it is certainly more than rumor. May I call your attention to the North Hollywood Shootout
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout
Not only were they wearing body armor, but one of them was wearing improvised body armor on arms and legs made of sections of extra vests.
Granted, the average citizen worried about self defense is unlikely to face an opponent that well equipped. But it is possible.
While it is admittedly rare, it is certainly more than rumor. May I call your attention to the North Hollywood Shootout
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout
Not only were they wearing body armor, but one of them was wearing improvised body armor on arms and legs made of sections of extra vests.
Granted, the average citizen worried about self defense is unlikely to face an opponent that well equipped. But it is possible.
IIRC, there were a few people back in the mid 19th century who managed to shake off wounds from the 45-70.
In fact, I believe that george custer's men would much rather have had the henry "glock" rifle than the old reliable 45-70 single shot. It's conceivable that the battle would have gone to custer if the troops had the henry.
Well now it's as effective as a 45/70, folks we can now sell off all our deer rifles and use the snubby.
Keep digging that hole cheap
.Fact is it's just not as capable of doing as much damage as anything else,
agreed more damage doesn't guarentee anything, but it most certainly increases the odds
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