A .357 magnum .38 special +P

Here is a review on Underwood's .357 magnum 158 grain gold dot jhp ammo. It is a perfect example of what I was trying to demonstrate in this thread.
https://youtu.be/gO9CNI8qV2I

While Underwood states on their box that this load gives 1500 fps, in the actual real life testing (at least in this one example) the shooter from his 4" barrel revolver only got 1142 fps for a ME of 458 ft. lbs with 158 grains.

In my own testing of Buffalobore;s .38 special +P out of my 4" Ruger Security six I got 1177 fps with the 158 grain bullet. You can see that it is a little higher than the Underwood .357 magnum.

So with my choice of .38 special +P loads I was able to match what many considered Underwood's "full house" .357 magnum loads to be.
 
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Of course, the biggest issue in this entire thread is discussion of velocity alone and not a single mention of what the hollow point is doing in 38 or 357 velocities.

Hollow point designs have made up the velocity differences long ago. So much so, high velocity can actually hurt penetration. In many tests, Underwood loaded super hot does WORSE than standard loads from the manufacturer.
 
No, the point of this discussion is the POTENTIAL of power, not specific loads, therefore the velocity and M.E. What you do with that power, i.e. the bullet design is another topic.

My sole point is that given the proper loading, you can reach the power potential of mid range .357 with .38 special +P as demonstrated in the examples I've given.
 
HighValleyRanch said:
Here is a review on Underwood's .357 magnum 158 grain gold dot jhp ammo. It is a perfect example of what I was trying to demonstrate in this thread.
https://youtu.be/gO9CNI8qV2I

While Underwood states on their box that this load gives 1500 fps, in the actual real life testing (at least in this one example) the shooter from his 4" barrel revolver only got 1142 fps for a ME of 458 ft. lbs with 158 grains.

In my own testing of Buffalobore;s .38 special +P out of my 4" Ruger Security six I got 1177 fps with the 158 grain bullet. You can see that it is a little higher than the Underwood .357 magnum.

So with my choice of .38 special +P loads I was able to match what many considered Underwood's "full house" .357 magnum loads to be.
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His gun had a 3" barrel, not 4".

You might want to rewrite your conclusion.
 
Thanks for the correction, but it doesn't really change my conclusion.
I got 1087 out of my 3" LCRX so we are talking only 50 fps difference. Still demonstrates my general point. 1087 to 1145, .38 +P to .357 magnum. There is even that much difference from same barrel length, gun to guns. Could be many other factors as well.
 
To me this whole discussion is exactly the same as the ones about pushing a 44 Special up to 44 mag performance vs. why not just buy a 44 mag. In other words a whole lot of to-do about nothing. I have not shot a 38+P in my life and never will in favor of just buying a 357.
 
Well, the point is unless you actually find some other data or do chrono tests yourself, you will never know if that Underwood .357 is "full house" or not. It might be.......or it might(aghast) be a .38 special +P in disguise!:p

Just watched another video of a guy comparing the Underwood .357 125 grain with Underwood .45 acp. The .357 was advertised as 1700 fps, but chrongraphed at around 1450 fps. He said that he heard that Underwood does their .357 mag tests with a 6" barrel.
But their semi auto ammo has been shown to be pretty accurate in the advertised velocity.

You stated that it is a proven round. Do you mean that particular ammo or do you mean .357 in general?
 
While cool....you're shooting a bullet that travels this interested velocity...which is what? a hollow point.

It matters what that hollow point needs, or doesn't need, to work.
 
agreed, which is why I prefer to carry .38 +P for SD, and 180 grain HC BB loads (or 158 grain if .38) for wood loads for........wild cats!^^^^^^:)
 
HighValleyRanch said:
You stated that it is a proven round. Do you mean that particular ammo or do you mean .357 in general?
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I didn't say it was a proven round, I said it is a proven bullet ... as in projectile.

I don't much give a rip what ammo chronographs at. I know my 357 packs a heck of a lot more punch with 357 ammo than with 38 ammo. No matter what brand, rating (+p or not), or bullet either happens to have. I can tell that just by the recoil and how hard it hits steel. I don't need a chrono or ballistic gel or Paul Harrol's "meat pack" or anything ele. It is just plain obvious. Like in "Well, DUH". Why the heck do you think 357 came into being in the first place?? Just for a longer cartridge that does the same blessed thing as the original shorter one?? Good Lord already!

forehead-slap-smiley-emoticon.gif
 
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Pass me some of that, will you? LOL we are going to need it!:D

So let me get this straight....
I provide statistical data and reviews and all you can say is...
It packs a wallop and the case is longer?
" can tell just by the wallop and how hard it hits the steel."

I can assure you that if I handed you my LCR with every other round loaded with .357 Magtech and .38 speical +P BB, you could not tell the difference at all in a blind test.
 
Bullet is everything. Velocity almost means nothing at all now.

Though I agree, interesting information. :)

If interested, Federal just put out a blog last week how caliber is nothing. As their parent company Northrup manufacture 90% of US ammunition... The blog is not not really informative, but they have proved it before with their Gold Dot and HST Posters (google "Federal Tactical HST poster")
https://www.federalpremium.com/part...=why_caliber_might_not_count&utm_source=enews
 
^^ Well, velocity is what gets the bullet to the right place, so one can't say it doesn't mean anything.

I agree that in terms of SD, the caliber might not matter as much, but I live in the woods, and you are never going to convince me that shooting a large four legged critter with .380 is going to as good as 10mm! That is where velocity is going to be your friend!
 
HighValleyRanch said:
Pass me some of that, will you? LOL we are going to need it!:D

So let me get this straight....
I provide statistical data and reviews and all you can say is...
It packs a wallop and the case is longer?
" can tell just by the wallop and how hard it hits the steel."

I can assure you that if I handed you my LCR with every other round loaded with .357 Magtech and .38 speical +P BB, you could not tell the difference at all in a blind test.
Click to expand...
attachment.php
 
Bullet is everything. Velocity almost means nothing at all now.
Click to expand...

That would ALMOST make sense if you turned it around, but it would still be wrong. You need BOTH, in the right "amount".

Velocity does matter, if it didn't you could get by with just throwing the bullets by hand...

Velocity matters, but knowing exactly what the velocity is, or that load A is 37.5fps faster than B rarely does, particularly at usual pistol ranges.
 
Do I have to use different oil on the revolver when I switch from .38 spl. to .357 Magnum?

Maybe dino oil for the lighter, less impactful and ineffective .38spl. and full synthetic for the added shock and awe of .357 Magnum.

I just spent a lot of money on a LED taclight too and I'm thinking that it probably has too much range for the .38spl?

Shooting gloves? I know I have to have them with the .357Magnum but do you think it would be ok to wear them when I have .38spl chambered up?

I'm also contemplating the tactical advantage of "stagger loading" my cylinder with alternating rounds of .357 Magnum and .38spl. I figure that when I miss on the first shot (.38spl) the muzzle flash of the 2nd miss (.357 Magnum) will blind them so I can make my getaway.
 
No.

There is absolutely no currently factory loaded quality ammunition that is lacking necessary velocity to expand and penetrate. If so, name the load.
 
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